The Purpose of Speaking in Tongues
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How does it align with the foundation of the doctrine Tongues as a law not subject to change? It is founded in Isiah 28. Not in Azusa .
Scripture informs us it a sign against those who mock His Spirit of judgment. So he simply with stammering lips ( baby noises) mocked them. And revealed His tongue as tongue prophecy in al the languages of the world .
When they saw it .They accused the apostles of being in a drunken wonderment or stupor, falling backward like babies learning to walk .When they themselves are who the sign of those confused pointed at.
Acts2: 13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
And yet for all that over, over and over they repeated the matter. To show their love for oral tradition of the fleshly fathers from Azusa as wonderments , filler uppers.
I would run leave the garment behind like Josef .
How do you test to see if the sounds made was of of God or or our fleshly mind, a lying wonderment by the counterfeit the spirit of error .like the experienced of Jesus . Who rather did the will of the father.
What wonderful thing did that spirit say to you 40 + years ago or yesterday? ? Wondering is the opposite of faith, believing
The apostle Jesus was given wonderful words from His father the father of all righteous spirits to rebuke the spirt of the antichrists' revealing to the father of the the law of faith the unseen power of God not of false messengers that peep, and that mutter: in the night
Mathew 4; 7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
Personal experience is not that validator of the unseen spiritual things. God is no longer brining any new prophecies after any manner to include tongues. Prophecy in the languages of all the nations .
I think we can see that the word Sozo applies to both eternal and temporary situations throughout the scriptures. But even if we limit ourselves to talking about eternal salvation, We can already see that at least TWO rules apply (according to Jesus)
1. The person must endure to the end. (in order to achieve Sozo)
2. The person must believe. (in order to achieve Sozo)
I believe that both of those are true and necessary according to the words of Jesus. Please consider that the need to endure to the end is actually stated before the need to believe because that one is also stated earlier (in Matthew 10:22).
The belief system I currently use both supports and incorporates BOTH of these as necessities stipulated by Jesus.
I know that OSAS only supports the "believe" portion, but I don't remember if you hold that as a doctrinal model.
Do you agree that "enduring to the end" is something we MUST do as a part of Sozo?
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Jesus did not say you would be baptized for power. Jesus said you would be filled for power. Baptized one time unto eternal life filled many times for ministry. To expect a filling to speak in tongues is not wise in these last days. To expect to be filled to testify of Jesus and to tell others how to be saved is a realistic expectation.
You have no other purpose for any filling of the Holy Spirit. Filling to serve not to satiate self desires.
You continue to say a lot but you do not convey anything of merit. Emptiness is all the abuse of the gifts of the Holy Spirit can produce.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
I don't think there is much of a difference in the filling of the holy spirit when one is saved and the empowering of it. The gifts were never just for ourselves and anyone who walks in the gifts is incapable of doing it merely for themselves otherwise they don't actually have the gift to begin with.
The power he gives is actually what I love most about it it is strength and power but can only be used and given for the sake of others not for selfish gain otherwise you are just faking them.
The filling of the holy spirit fills us but the empowering of it isn't like your recieving the spirit again it is just him strenghtening us in what he already called for us to do.
Yes Jesus said you will receive Power after the Holy Spirit comes upon you. Acts 1:8.
you are wrong and unbiblical.
the word Sozo applies to the context how it is used. it is not limiting ourselves it is an understanding that Sozo does Save, and does heal, and does deliver one depending one what is needed at the time God Saves a person. Salvation, healing , and deliverance.
We are saved today , we will be saved tomorrow and we are going to be saved forever.
Today is the day of Salvation tomorrow is not problem to anyone you must endure today, and be ready today.
If I am correct sozo is a term meaning salvation and healing of the body and deliverence from the enemy correct?
I love how you put it but I am also wondering about something. I have been protected and delivered from demonic attacks but I have never been able to be healed physically and for that matter none of my prayers for others to be healed have worked either so am I missing something or am I just not really understanding the greek term itself?
NO the devil is a liar. Your prayer for other is up to God to do we are to pray in faith. You do not know the final process of how the Lord has moved on them.
True, and I suppose there is more than one kind of healing. I mean I am far more concerned with the inner healings of people than physical and in that sense I have seen him use me in that area a lot.
Even so though I do wish I could heal physically I hear of people being healed simply by people touching them I tried this once gioving God the wheel on it acting only on the faith he would do it but my mom still is in a lot of physical pain from three years ago when I tried so I just don't really understand how it works exactly.
Maybe I just don't have that gift in particular and instead am meant for inner healing
healing means to be brought back to it's nature state. Healing is instantaneously, progressively and conditionally.
yes and also if you are not seeking HIM for it or you are reaping in your body the payment for sin physically. Many People are saved but their body is paying for the life of sin physically.
Some say that "speaking in tongues" did exist at one time (because it's written in the bible) but is not for today. ( ... ) But OK, let's give them the benefit of the doubt on that one.
Let's NOT argue whether or not speaking in tongues is for today. We can limit the discussion to the benefits of speaking in tongues DURING the times that the bible DOES allow speaking in tongues, since this is a Bible Discussion Forum and speaking in tongues was given by God to at least some according to the word of God, in the bible.
In other words, since the bible says that speaking in tongues was a gift of the Holy Ghost in the bible)...WHY was it given? WHAT does the bible say it accomplishes (while it is in operation)?
And to be clear about this...whether or not tongues ceased (or will cease) HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ITS PURPOSE DURING THE TIME OF ITS EXISTENCE. So please pay attention to when people are trying to get off topic. We're only looking at what "speaking in tongues" does accomplish, while it is functioning, as described in the BIBLE. What are the benefits? And let's be patient and thorough about it.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
The only Biblical purpose was to VALIDATE the NEW TESTAMENT was as Much the Word of GOD to the Unbelieving JEWS to fulfill Prophecy, just like the Old Testament Prophets that also did Miracles of GOD to validate it came from GOD.
1 Corinthians 14:21-22 (ESV)
21 In the Law it is written, “By people of strange tongues and by the lips of foreigners will I speak to this people {the Jews}, and even then they will not listen to me, says the Lord.”
22 Thus tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers {the Jews}, while prophecy is a sign not for unbelievers but for believers.
Isaiah 28:11-12 (ESV)
11 For by people of strange lips and with a foreign tongue the LORD will speak to this people {the Jews},
12 to whom he has said, “This is rest; give rest to the weary; and this is repose”; yet they would not hear.
1 Corinthians 1:22 (KJV)
22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
1 Corinthians 14:33-35 (ESV)
33 For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints,
34 the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says.
35 If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.
Mark 16:20 (NIV)
20 Then the disciples went out and preached everywhere, and the Lord worked with them and confirmed his word by the signs that accompanied it.
When the New Testament was confirmed to enough witnesses, I believe the purpose Ceased, and so did the genuine TONGUES Cease. All that remains is nothing more than a counterfeit of the Real McCoy. Just like Jesus does not continue to validate HIS RESURRECTION to every new believer by appearing to him.
Acts 2:5-11 (HCSB)
5 There were Jews living in Jerusalem, devout men from every nation under heaven.
6 When this sound occurred, a crowd came together and was confused because each one heard them speaking in his own language.
7 And they were astounded and amazed, saying, “Look, aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans? {Galileans were know to have a strong accent, like someone in the deep south of the USA, or an Irishman.}
8 How is it that each of us can hear in our own native language? {dialektos is so specific of a language that EVEN the accent was 100% correct.}
9 Parthians, Medes, Elamites; those who live in Mesopotamia, in Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,
10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes,
11 Cretans and Arabs—we hear them speaking the magnificent acts of God in our own languages.”
{All JEWS had to learn and memorize the MAGNIFICENT ACTS OF GOD specifically, so it was a LANGUAGE, not Jibberish.}
Because he loves you and you were open to it. Some of those in Acts 10, 19, 2, and even 8 may have wondered the same thing.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
I mention Azusa, because those opposing Tongues have specifically been using Azusa as their punching bag.
I find it very interesting you did not quote Joel 2 as Peter did on the day of Pentecost?
Peter said this IS THAT which was spoken by the Prophet Joel. Then Peter quoted HIM.
Acts 2:16-18
This is that not something else but what you see happening is what was spoken by the Prophet Joel
Also you greatly left out other verses in 1cor 12 to 14 which are unit Chapters . You try to piece in the Gospel of Mark 16:20 but did not use what Jesus HIMself said in Luke 24:45-49
and John 20:22
Luke 24:45 say s "Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,"
This happened after "Jesus breathed on them and said receive the Holy Spirit" John 20:2
What understanding of the scriptures they needed? The Old Testament. They need to understand Jesus is the Lord and king the Savior of the jews that was promised. After their understanding was open they were told to wait. why? Because Knowledge is not enough, they need the power of the Holy Spirit.
Then HE told them to go and wait for empowerment of the Holy Spirit
You think your knowledge of the Bible is enough?
2 Timothy
3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
the word "form" is morphōsis a formula of godliness meaning having an appearance a respect piety towards God, but deny
the power (dynamis) of GOD. the same power Jesus said in Acts 1:8 such a type turn away from.
2tim 3:7 "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth."
meaning never able to know alētheia concerning the things of God: precise and correct knowledge
John 5:38 Jesus said " But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe."
:39 “You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me.
Having all the knowledge of the word of God is a great achievement among men but God is not impressed.
IF your understanding limits God , and says HE is not moving by the Holy Spirit in each believer even when they are not reading the Bible you are wrong.
IF your undersign of the word of God means Know more of the Bible and it doesn't change your life then you're dead.
You Biblical knowledge doesn't save you your relationship with Christ did by grace through faith.