Not By Works

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DorothyMae said:
Well I could go back and provide the hateful posts some OSAS believers posted here. Hypocrites can also post hateful ones but these are more rare. Or maybe Im not sure who you mean.
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I agree....why do some get so hateful when you disagree with OSAS...I found that on another site.
 
DorothyMae said:
Sweet of you to back down but you were right. Obedience definitely produces faith. That because one exercises real faith to obey and the outcome strengthens faith.
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Wrong. It is faith that produces obedience. And the faith in and of itself is a gift from God to begin with. A proper exegesis of Ephesians 2:8-9 makes it clear that both the salvation and the faith are a gift.

You've got it backwards. Again. Were are you a Roman Catholic at one time?
 
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jackrosie said:
Can you explain your understanding of grace?...something I am very interested in....thank you.
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Jackierose, the best understanding of how grace is given is found in scripture.

“God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.”
When we humble ourselves in obedience to some step He asked you to do, the grace He gives as a direct result is astounding.
 
DorothyMae said:
Well I could go back and provide the hateful posts some OSAS believers posted here. Hypocrites can also post hateful ones but these are more rare. Or maybe Im not sure who you mean.
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I’m not discrediting your life experience. You state you’ve encountered hateful 0SAS believers. It is not my place to say you haven’t. My experience as previously stated is it’s the Pharisees who are more hateful and more numerous. On another note, you seem very defensive. Not just in the above post but in many of them.
 
cv5 said:
Wrong. It is faith that produces obedience. And the faith in and of itself is a gift from God to begin with. A proper exegesis of Ephesians 2:8-9 makes it clear that both the salvation and the faith are a gift.

You've got it backwards. Again. Were are you a Roman Catholic at one time?
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Obedience produces more faith...first we receive faith when we are saved.....then learning to become obedient increases ones faith....which can only come from the Lord.....that is my belief......

I would never be so bold to tell someone they are wrong....disagree with...yes...
 
DorothyMae said:
Jackierose, the best understanding of how grace is given is found in scripture.

“God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.”
When we humble ourselves in obedience to some step He asked you to do, the grace He gives as a direct result is astounding.
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We? Far too many "we's" coming out of you to suit my taste.
Sounds like your other post where you say "we" produce the faith from "our" obedience.
 
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DorothyMae said:
Jackierose, the best understanding of how grace is given is found in scripture.

“God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.”
When we humble ourselves in obedience to some step He asked you to do, the grace He gives as a direct result is astounding.
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Absolutely I agree...I was one such person who was full of pride as a new babe...God quickly pulled the rug from under my feet.....so glad he did.......
 
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DorothyMae said:
Did it make you obey or just feel
better?
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It’s not an either/or answer, it’s both. Most OSAS believers will tell you we obey God, but we do so with joyful, thankful hearts, not obligatory ones. Unfortunately most everyone who opposes OSAS for some reason believe we are against obeying God.
 
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jackrosie said:
Obedience produces more faith...first we receive faith when we are saved.....then learning to become obedient increases ones faith....which can only come from the Lord.....that is my belief......

I would never be so bold to tell someone they are wrong....disagree with...yes...
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Oh my goodness, I totally disagree. Obedience may provide assurance of salvation, and it certainly is required of believers, nevertheless it is not followed to perfection by any means. But it absolutely does not produce faith as if to say increasing and decreasing it. Salvific faith always comes from outside ourselves and only comes from God.
 
cv5 said:
Oh my goodness, I totally disagree. Obedience may provide assurance of salvation, and it certainly is required of believers, nevertheless it is not followed to perfection by any means. But it absolutely does not produce faith as if to say increasing and decreasing it. Salvific faith always comes from outside ourselves and only comes from God.
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Ok sir.....followed to perfection....not sure what you mean?

Did I say it is followed to perfection?....you have lost me.
 
jackrosie said:
I would imagine false obedience is looking to man...not sure DorothyMae....would appreciate your input on this....thank you.
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Jackie rose, I’m not sure I understand what false obedience is, but I’ll tell you what I’ve learned. There is obedience, half obedience and disobedience. The attitude plays much less a role than accomplishing what He asks.

I know there are those who insist it has to be from love or it’s nothing.

But imagine this. A man says this to his bride. “Honey, I love you so much I want to help you all the days if your life to show how filled with deep love I am. You deserve nothing less. And because you deserve nothing less, I will not help you on days where I am not filled with that passion. I’ll will honor you by waiting until that love for you fills my heart and overwhelms my desire to please myself. Isn’t that a great promise? Wouldn’t she be thrilled?

Jesus told the parable of the two sons each given a task. One had the right attitude but didn’t do the task. One had a bad attitude but did tge task. Jesus said the latter was approved and no reprimand for the attitude.

Obedience is what counts.
 
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