Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
jackrosie

jackrosie

Banned
#138,481
May 19, 2020
3,050
1,275
113
#138,481
DorothyMae said:
Well I could go back and provide the hateful posts some OSAS believers posted here. Hypocrites can also post hateful ones but these are more rare. Or maybe Im not sure who you mean.
Click to expand...

I agree....why do some get so hateful when you disagree with OSAS...I found that on another site.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#138,482
#138,482
jackrosie said:
I agree....why do some get so hateful when you disagree with OSAS...I found that on another site.
Click to expand...
No one is hateful, we just do not like a Gospel that denigrates the work of Christ as something that must be added to.
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#138,487
Nov 20, 2018
22,754
8,267
113
#138,487
DorothyMae said:
Sweet of you to back down but you were right. Obedience definitely produces faith. That because one exercises real faith to obey and the outcome strengthens faith.
Click to expand...
Wrong. It is faith that produces obedience. And the faith in and of itself is a gift from God to begin with. A proper exegesis of Ephesians 2:8-9 makes it clear that both the salvation and the faith are a gift.

You've got it backwards. Again. Were are you a Roman Catholic at one time?
 
D

DorothyMae

Banned
#138,490
May 23, 2020
1,558
313
83
#138,490
jackrosie said:
Can you explain your understanding of grace?...something I am very interested in....thank you.
Click to expand...
Jackierose, the best understanding of how grace is given is found in scripture.

“God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.”
When we humble ourselves in obedience to some step He asked you to do, the grace He gives as a direct result is astounding.
 
Duskey

Duskey

Banned
#138,492
May 31, 2020
1,706
1,559
113
#138,492
DorothyMae said:
Well I could go back and provide the hateful posts some OSAS believers posted here. Hypocrites can also post hateful ones but these are more rare. Or maybe Im not sure who you mean.
Click to expand...
I’m not discrediting your life experience. You state you’ve encountered hateful 0SAS believers. It is not my place to say you haven’t. My experience as previously stated is it’s the Pharisees who are more hateful and more numerous. On another note, you seem very defensive. Not just in the above post but in many of them.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#138,493
#138,493
jackrosie said:
Unmerited favour?....not sure what you mean.
Click to expand...

This is the standard definition of grace...... and it true, God does not love us based on our merit of that love... however Grace is also more as one reads the letters by Paul.
 
jackrosie

jackrosie

Banned
#138,494
May 19, 2020
3,050
1,275
113
#138,494
cv5 said:
Wrong. It is faith that produces obedience. And the faith in and of itself is a gift from God to begin with. A proper exegesis of Ephesians 2:8-9 makes it clear that both the salvation and the faith are a gift.

You've got it backwards. Again. Were are you a Roman Catholic at one time?
Click to expand...


Obedience produces more faith...first we receive faith when we are saved.....then learning to become obedient increases ones faith....which can only come from the Lord.....that is my belief......

I would never be so bold to tell someone they are wrong....disagree with...yes...
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#138,495
Nov 20, 2018
22,754
8,267
113
#138,495
DorothyMae said:
Jackierose, the best understanding of how grace is given is found in scripture.

“God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.”
When we humble ourselves in obedience to some step He asked you to do, the grace He gives as a direct result is astounding.
Click to expand...
We? Far too many "we's" coming out of you to suit my taste.
Sounds like your other post where you say "we" produce the faith from "our" obedience.
 
jackrosie

jackrosie

Banned
#138,496
May 19, 2020
3,050
1,275
113
#138,496
DorothyMae said:
Jackierose, the best understanding of how grace is given is found in scripture.

“God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.”
When we humble ourselves in obedience to some step He asked you to do, the grace He gives as a direct result is astounding.
Click to expand...

Absolutely I agree...I was one such person who was full of pride as a new babe...God quickly pulled the rug from under my feet.....so glad he did.......
 
Duskey

Duskey

Banned
#138,497
May 31, 2020
1,706
1,559
113
#138,497
DorothyMae said:
Did it make you obey or just feel
better?
Click to expand...
It’s not an either/or answer, it’s both. Most OSAS believers will tell you we obey God, but we do so with joyful, thankful hearts, not obligatory ones. Unfortunately most everyone who opposes OSAS for some reason believe we are against obeying God.
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#138,498
Nov 20, 2018
22,754
8,267
113
#138,498
jackrosie said:
Obedience produces more faith...first we receive faith when we are saved.....then learning to become obedient increases ones faith....which can only come from the Lord.....that is my belief......

I would never be so bold to tell someone they are wrong....disagree with...yes...
Click to expand...
Oh my goodness, I totally disagree. Obedience may provide assurance of salvation, and it certainly is required of believers, nevertheless it is not followed to perfection by any means. But it absolutely does not produce faith as if to say increasing and decreasing it. Salvific faith always comes from outside ourselves and only comes from God.
 
jackrosie

jackrosie

Banned
#138,499
May 19, 2020
3,050
1,275
113
#138,499
cv5 said:
Oh my goodness, I totally disagree. Obedience may provide assurance of salvation, and it certainly is required of believers, nevertheless it is not followed to perfection by any means. But it absolutely does not produce faith as if to say increasing and decreasing it. Salvific faith always comes from outside ourselves and only comes from God.
Click to expand...


Ok sir.....followed to perfection....not sure what you mean?

Did I say it is followed to perfection?....you have lost me.
 
D

DorothyMae

Banned
#138,500
May 23, 2020
1,558
313
83
#138,500
jackrosie said:
I would imagine false obedience is looking to man...not sure DorothyMae....would appreciate your input on this....thank you.
Click to expand...
Jackie rose, I’m not sure I understand what false obedience is, but I’ll tell you what I’ve learned. There is obedience, half obedience and disobedience. The attitude plays much less a role than accomplishing what He asks.

I know there are those who insist it has to be from love or it’s nothing.

But imagine this. A man says this to his bride. “Honey, I love you so much I want to help you all the days if your life to show how filled with deep love I am. You deserve nothing less. And because you deserve nothing less, I will not help you on days where I am not filled with that passion. I’ll will honor you by waiting until that love for you fills my heart and overwhelms my desire to please myself. Isn’t that a great promise? Wouldn’t she be thrilled?

Jesus told the parable of the two sons each given a task. One had the right attitude but didn’t do the task. One had a bad attitude but did tge task. Jesus said the latter was approved and no reprimand for the attitude.

Obedience is what counts.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.