I used to love Pastor John Piper, but does he believe in Lordship Salvation?
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S
No one really knows. In Rev 2:6 it says that they hated the deeds of the Nicolaitanes.
In Rev 2:15 it says there is a doctrine of the Nicolaitanes.
Therefore the doctrine produced deeds. What was this doctrine? There is no other reference in ancient literature from the time. There references some 500 years later about sexual sins that were taught are guesses and have no authority to back them up.
14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate.
Since the doctrine of Balaam mentions the sacrifices to idols and commiting fornication then it seems like the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes mentioned is something else besides those two things mentioned.
The name Nicolaitane means conqueror of the people and for that reason ALONE there has been a suggestion that the doctrine was that of ecclesiastical hierarchy and lording it over the laity. I am not so sure. The doctrine resulted in deeds so I am leaning toward some kind of doctrine that produced compromise and acceptance of sinful indulgences similar to the doctrine of Balaam that resulted in fornication, but some other sin besides fornication.
In Rev 2:15 it says there is a doctrine of the Nicolaitanes.
Therefore the doctrine produced deeds. What was this doctrine? There is no other reference in ancient literature from the time. There references some 500 years later about sexual sins that were taught are guesses and have no authority to back them up.
14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate.
Since the doctrine of Balaam mentions the sacrifices to idols and commiting fornication then it seems like the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes mentioned is something else besides those two things mentioned.
The name Nicolaitane means conqueror of the people and for that reason ALONE there has been a suggestion that the doctrine was that of ecclesiastical hierarchy and lording it over the laity. I am not so sure. The doctrine resulted in deeds so I am leaning toward some kind of doctrine that produced compromise and acceptance of sinful indulgences similar to the doctrine of Balaam that resulted in fornication, but some other sin besides fornication.
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K
Is this a future occurrence, or has it happened already?
And would you say that you yourself are free from sinning?
If so, at what point did you stop sinning? Was it sometime after you became a believer or instantly at the moment when you believed?
For persons who say you cannot be a Christian and live in sin, yet everyday they get into heated arguments about their beliefs. Would you say this also is living in sin in light of the following scripture: 2 Timothy 2:14 And a servant of the Lord must not be quarrelsome, but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, and forbearing.
If this is not an example of someone living in sin, can you please provide me with another example?
And would you say that you yourself are free from sinning?
If so, at what point did you stop sinning? Was it sometime after you became a believer or instantly at the moment when you believed?
For persons who say you cannot be a Christian and live in sin, yet everyday they get into heated arguments about their beliefs. Would you say this also is living in sin in light of the following scripture: 2 Timothy 2:14 And a servant of the Lord must not be quarrelsome, but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, and forbearing.
If this is not an example of someone living in sin, can you please provide me with another example?
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I've read that the word "Nicolaitans" (from "nikos" and "laos") means :
"[the] conquering of the people"
But does that mean:
--"[the] CONQUERING of the people" (as in, the ppl are BEING conquered by someone else); or
--"[the] conquering OF THE PEOPLE" (as in, 'the people' are the ones DOING the conquering [over others])
[I cannot tell which]
"The verb implies a battle" (K. Wuest)."
[or perhaps, as you have it, the "conqueror of the people"... ?? ("the Nico laitans" [pl]... but yes, the "deeds of" as well as the "doctrine of")]
"[the] conquering of the people"
But does that mean:
--"[the] CONQUERING of the people" (as in, the ppl are BEING conquered by someone else); or
--"[the] conquering OF THE PEOPLE" (as in, 'the people' are the ones DOING the conquering [over others])
[I cannot tell which]
"The verb implies a battle" (K. Wuest)."
[or perhaps, as you have it, the "conqueror of the people"... ?? ("the Nico laitans" [pl]... but yes, the "deeds of" as well as the "doctrine of")]
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The adopted sons and daughters serve their Heavenly Father in joy and thanksgiving understanding and knowing full well of the gift that has been bequeathed unto them, and the overwhelming grace and lovingkindness of the Holy Father.
I really don't agree with the terminology of "submission" and "submit". it just seems so rank and petty and dutiful fraudulent and hypocritical. That is the term used so often by the cults and false religions.
Touchstone: The parable of the two sons.
I really don't agree with the terminology of "submission" and "submit". it just seems so rank and petty and dutiful fraudulent and hypocritical. That is the term used so often by the cults and false religions.
Touchstone: The parable of the two sons.
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S
Since there is no information about what they taught or what their deeds were, we can only guess based on the context and of course the meaning of the name itself.
If the meaning of the name "conguering of the people" is there for us to use as a hint, a mystery as it were, then we have two most likely options.
1) The Lording it over the people by the Leaders of the church which had already started 3 John 1:9 I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not.
2) the enslavement that is caused by yielding to lusts... 2 Pet 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. (a verse about false teachers and the type of false teaching they were contending with at that time)
Because of the chapter context about Balaam, and Jezebel, I think the most natural understanding is that all of these false teachings have something in common.
"The idea that one can willfully practice lusts of the flesh such as visiting the temple prostitutes and still claim the promises of salvation offered by faith in Jesus" would be an example of what that looked like in their day.
I will not explain to you how it would apply in our culture because I think that each reader has already thought about examples they have heard and witnessed in their own experiences if they have been a christian for very long.
Jesus last words to the churches were given to us so that we could identify these false teachings and keep our lampstands burning brightly with the holy living he requires, as we wait for his appearing, trusting in His power to keep us, that we may be found blameless and without compromise in that day.
If the meaning of the name "conguering of the people" is there for us to use as a hint, a mystery as it were, then we have two most likely options.
1) The Lording it over the people by the Leaders of the church which had already started 3 John 1:9 I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not.
2) the enslavement that is caused by yielding to lusts... 2 Pet 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. (a verse about false teachers and the type of false teaching they were contending with at that time)
Because of the chapter context about Balaam, and Jezebel, I think the most natural understanding is that all of these false teachings have something in common.
"The idea that one can willfully practice lusts of the flesh such as visiting the temple prostitutes and still claim the promises of salvation offered by faith in Jesus" would be an example of what that looked like in their day.
I will not explain to you how it would apply in our culture because I think that each reader has already thought about examples they have heard and witnessed in their own experiences if they have been a christian for very long.
Jesus last words to the churches were given to us so that we could identify these false teachings and keep our lampstands burning brightly with the holy living he requires, as we wait for his appearing, trusting in His power to keep us, that we may be found blameless and without compromise in that day.
No.
The person who is living just like he did before coming to Jesus is showing he does not have the life transforming power of the Spirit in him in salvation.
The true believer is marked by the journey out of the bondage of sin--like the Israelites journey out of the bondage of Egypt. If a person isn't making that journey, even just a little, they are still in Egypt.
The person who is living just like he did before coming to Jesus is showing he does not have the life transforming power of the Spirit in him in salvation.
The true believer is marked by the journey out of the bondage of sin--like the Israelites journey out of the bondage of Egypt. If a person isn't making that journey, even just a little, they are still in Egypt.
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Yes.
And what James means is, you can't call yourself a law keeper if you aren't keeping it all.
He's not saying you are guilty of murder if you commit adultery, for example.
His point was not to take comfort in having kept part of the law while leaving other parts not kept. That can be a problem among Christians. They take comfort that they are doing this or that, while leaving other obediences of faith unfulfilled. The example James addresses in his letter is the matter of showing favoritism. It's great if you're not committing adultery, or murder, but if you're showing favoritism (also forbidden in the law) you're still doing wrong and not keeping the royal law of scripture 'love your neighbor as yourself'.
And what James means is, you can't call yourself a law keeper if you aren't keeping it all.
He's not saying you are guilty of murder if you commit adultery, for example.
His point was not to take comfort in having kept part of the law while leaving other parts not kept. That can be a problem among Christians. They take comfort that they are doing this or that, while leaving other obediences of faith unfulfilled. The example James addresses in his letter is the matter of showing favoritism. It's great if you're not committing adultery, or murder, but if you're showing favoritism (also forbidden in the law) you're still doing wrong and not keeping the royal law of scripture 'love your neighbor as yourself'.
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well you can always ask John Piper himself what he believes if you are not sure, maybe send him an email he might reply or not.
Some people cannot articulate clearly what they believe which may be a problem if they are trying to explain to someone else their faith.
But I suppose whats more important is what YOU believe as you cant say to God or anyone else well Im a christian because John Piper is.
Some people cannot articulate clearly what they believe which may be a problem if they are trying to explain to someone else their faith.
But I suppose whats more important is what YOU believe as you cant say to God or anyone else well Im a christian because John Piper is.
Or you can go to the web site of Bethlehem Baptist Church, where Piper was the Senior pastor, and has now retired.
When you check out their beliefs you see that they are trying for a compromise between Reformed Theology, Baptist beliefs, and Charismatic beliefs. No church can have such a mishmash without compromising Bible truth.
When you check out their beliefs you see that they are trying for a compromise between Reformed Theology, Baptist beliefs, and Charismatic beliefs. No church can have such a mishmash without compromising Bible truth.
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Wesley went too far with his ideas on sanctification. He believed that Christians could be cleansed from original sin, or depravity ... could reach a point where they would no longer sin.
https://www.christiansforchrist.com/articles/theology/john-wesleys-doctrine-of-christian-perfection/
Aside: I would stay clear of Wesley's theology (not saying he all wrong, but he would be way down my preferred reading list)
https://www.christiansforchrist.com/articles/theology/john-wesleys-doctrine-of-christian-perfection/
Aside: I would stay clear of Wesley's theology (not saying he all wrong, but he would be way down my preferred reading list)
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