The absurdity and heresy of Preterism

[TheDivineWatermark]

The human body is left behind, exchanged for the eternal glorified body.

"20 For our citizenship exists in the heavens, from whence also we are awaiting a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who will transform [G3345] our body of humiliation, conformed to the body of His glory, according to the working enabling Him even to subdue all things to Himself." - Philippians 3:20-21

"changed" - 1Cor15:51-54

"clothed upon" - 2Cor5:2-4 (this one means we don't "shed" our old one first [meaning, for those of us who are still living at the time of "our Rapture"]... there will be no [shells-of-]"bodies" laying around when we get Raptured, see... Just like Jesus' body was not left behind...)

 

[John146]

I can understand the idea of the calling and election of God being conditional.

Romans 11:28 Concerning the Good News, they are enemies for your sake.

would spiritual Israel be enemies concerning the good news?
who is the "your" that Paul is talking about there, in your view?

The "all Israel" is pointing to the return of Christ at which point all Israel shall be saved. All the remnant of Israel at the time of Christ's return will be saved. Gentile believers are not Israel.

 

[John146]

"20 For our citizenship exists in the heavens, from whence also we are awaiting a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who will transform [G3345] our body of humiliation, conformed to the body of His glory, according to the working enabling Him even to subdue all things to Himself." - Philippians 3:20-21

"changed" - 1Cor15:51-54

"clothed upon" - 2Cor5:2-4 (this one means we don't "shed" our old one first ... there will be no [shells-of-]"bodies" laying around when we get Raptured, see... Just like Jesus' body was not left behind...)

Absolutely agree. These vile bodies will be changed and fashioned like unto His glorious body. Christ's resurrected body was a spiritual body of flesh and bone.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Yes. Totally agree. I was thinking of those exact Scriptures when the question arose.
Enoch is a type of the rapture, furthermore he was before Abraham so he is definitely not Jewish, so he really does not fit, seeing that the time of Jacob's trouble and Israel is the emphasis and major theme of the GT.

The problem is that too many pastors and teachers have failed to connect the dots and present a comprehensive picture of the reign of the Antichrist which brings all these things together. This is also the time when Satan and his evil angels have been cast down to the earth and Satan's wrath is on full display against the Tribulation saints.

Furthermore a believing remnant of Israel is preserved in the wilderness from Satan's attacks at this time: And to the woman [BELIEVING ISRAEL] were given two wings of a great eagle [SUPERNATURAL PRESERVATION], that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. (Rev 12:14)

TIME = 1 YEAR; TIMES = 2 YEARS; HALF A TIME = 6 MONTHS.

 

[Truth7t7]

The "all Israel" is pointing to the return of Christ at which point all Israel shall be saved. All the remnant of Israel at the time of Christ's return will be saved. Gentile believers are not Israel.

The Church represents the "Twelve Tribes" of Israel.

James 1:1KJV
1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

"Israel The Church", children of the promised seed.

Romans 9:6-8KJV
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

 

[Truth7t7]

The "all Israel" is pointing to the return of Christ at which point all Israel shall be saved. All the remnant of Israel at the time of Christ's return will be saved. Gentile believers are not Israel.

There isn't a racial/ethnic distinction in the Church, neither Jew nor Greek

 

[Truth7t7]

The problem is that too many pastors and teachers have failed to connect the dots and present a comprehensive picture of the reign of the Antichrist which brings all these things together. This is also the time when Satan and his evil angels have been cast down to the earth and Satan's wrath is on full display against the Tribulation saints.

Furthermore a believing remnant of Israel is preserved in the wilderness from Satan's attacks at this time: And to the woman [BELIEVING ISRAEL] were given two wings of a great eagle [SUPERNATURAL PRESERVATION], that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. (Rev 12:14)

TIME = 1 YEAR; TIMES = 2 YEARS; HALF A TIME = 6 MONTHS.

Your claim is false, the "Two Witnesses" will be in control

 

[biker]

I assume you're talking about John being alive in the 90s and writing the book of Revelation at that time.

regarding the statement about the successions of the bishops.
do you accept that as well?

He gives 2 thoughts and adds nothing more when he mentions Polycarp being given the title of Bishop. And then along with Polycarp, the Apostles. the Church of Ephesus, and specifically about John once again being around when Trajan ruled in 98 AD, he have props to this direction.

But you can see where his real concern was with Marcion and Valentinus who were basically antichrists. Fake preachers pretending to be the real deal. These he specifies are heretics.

If we take what he says in part of John at Ephesus and Polycarp, we can see he agrees to Bishop.

But more than anything, he really wants to warn about false preachers being rewarded by ignorant Church Members.

 

[cv5]

The Church represents the "Twelve Tribes" of Israel.

James 1:1KJV
1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

"Israel The Church", children of the promised seed.

Romans 9:6-8KJV
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Dude. Those are bush league mistakes. Come back in 10 years.

 

[cv5]

Your claim is false, the "Two Witnesses" will be in control

?????????

 

[cv5]

This is correct from all indications in Scripture. These two men are called "prophets", and their miracles correspond to those already recorded. Elijah shut the heavens for 3 1/2 years, and their ministry is also for 3 1/2 years, which also corresponds exactly to the reign of the Antichrist (42 months).

Elias [Elijah] was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months. (James 5:17)

And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth... These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. (Rev 11:3,6)

Elijah also brought fire down from heaven through his prayers: And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. (Rev 11:5) [Note: this is not about a fire-breathing man but a man who prays for fire to descend from Heaven]

Also Luke 4:25 by the Word of the Lord Jesus Christ Himself.

"But I tell you truthfully that there were many widows in Israel in the time of Elijah, when the sky was shut for three and a half years and great famine swept over all the land."

 

[John146]

The Church represents the "Twelve Tribes" of Israel.

James 1:1KJV
1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

"Israel The Church", children of the promised seed.

Romans 9:6-8KJV
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Israel is not the Church, nor the twelve tribes. That's always a reference to the entire nation of Israel, God's physical people.

 

[John146]

There isn't a racial/ethnic distinction in the Church, neither Jew nor Greek

Right, to call the Church the twelve tribes would contradict Paul.

 

[cv5]

Right, to call the Church the twelve tribes would contradict Paul.

Identifying the Church as the 12 tribes is a very well-worn heresy as well.

 

[Truth7t7]

Identifying the Church as the 12 tribes is a very well-worn heresy as well.

The Church is the "Twelve Tribes" of Israel, Just as James 1:1 states

 

[Truth7t7]

Right, to call the Church the twelve tribes would contradict Paul.

James 1:1disent contradict anything, the Church represents the twelve tribes of Israel.

As Romans 9:6-8 clearly states, the children of the flesh "Ethnic Jews" tgese are notthe children of God.

 

[Guojing]

The Church is the "Twelve Tribes" of Israel, Just as James 1:1 states

James, together with Peter and John, agreed in the Jerusalem Council to restrict their ministry to the Jews only.

Galatians 2:9 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

So if James was indeed writing to the Body of Christ as you have said, where gentiles are equal to the Jews, he will be violating that agreement.

 

[cv5]

The Church is the "Twelve Tribes" of Israel, Just as James 1:1 states

You have much to learn grasshopper.

 

[Truth7t7]

James, together with Peter and John, agreed in the Jerusalem Council to restrict their ministry to the Jews only.

Galatians 2:9 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

So if James was indeed writing to the Body of Christ as you have said, where gentiles are equal to the Jews, he will be violating that agreement.

The New Testament is written to "The Church"

James 1:1 clearly identifies the Church asthe "Twelve Tribes" of Israel.

 

[Guojing]

The New Testament is written to "The Church"

James 1:1 clearly identifies the Church asthe "Twelve Tribes" of Israel.

As long as you agree that the church then comprised only of Jewish believers, in the period of Acts 8, we are fine.