The absurdity and heresy of Preterism

[DorothyMae]

Even when Paul states explicitly in Romans 11, you still won't accept it? I have no problems reading it literally
As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers.
.

That does not say that God had to do this or that God did this. That they are does not mean He did the action. It was not actually necessary in any case. The Gentiles would be blessed as promised to Abraham no matter what the Jews did or failed to do.

Isn't that first statement clear wrt to the entire Romans 11 chapter concerning 3 parties, God, Israel and Gentiles? God became enemies with Israel, so that us former Gentiles can receive the gospel.

No, I do not see how that follows. That they are enemies for your sake does not mean either God MADE them enemies or that God needed to do so.

As Paul further explained in vs 12

12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

So if Israel's fall has become our riches thru the gospel of grace, the moment God is reconciled with Israel after the Tribulation, we can expect all sickness and disease to finally cease + more.

It would have been much much better if they had all accepted the MEssiah and went out to tell the world. No state of being enemies of GOd was ever necessary. The tribulation is over.

The Jews do not have anything to bring to the world anymore. They know less about God that the Christians. Their contribution is over. Again, their fall was not necessary but since they chose that route, God can use it. But it was never necessary. Salvation of some is not built on the rebellion of others.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Another Old Testament prophecy of the Old Testament saints being raised from the dead at the time of Jacobs trouble, hidden from the wrath of God until the indignation passes.

Isa 26:19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
Isa 26:20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.

That ^ is one of the passages I am constantly LISTING (along with others of the same Subject)... regarding Israel (where this is LIKENED UNTO a resurrection... just like in Dan12:1-4,10 and Ezek37:12-14,20-23 and Rom11:15[25], etc), read the passage carefully:

Isaiah 26 -

13 O LORD our God, other lords beside thee have had dominion over us: but by thee only will we make mention of thy name.
14 They are dead, they shall not live; they are deceased, they shall not rise: therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them, and made all their memory to perish.
15 Thou hast increased the nation, O LORD, thou hast increased the nation: thou art glorified: thou hadst removed it far unto all the ends of the earth.
16 LORD, in trouble have they visited thee, they poured out a prayer when thy chastening was upon them.
17 Like as a woman with child, that draweth near the time of her delivery, is in pain, and crieth out in her pangs; so have we been in thy sight, O LORD.
18 We have been with child, we have been in pain, we have as it were brought forth wind; we have not wrought any deliverance in the earth; neither have the inhabitants of the world fallen.
19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust [see Hosea 2:23a ('I will sow her unto Me in the earth'), and related others!]: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
20 Come, my people [when they are again called 'My people'], enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
21 For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.



[again, note that Paul says the ARRIVAL of "the DOTL" time period is like the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:2-3 (Matt24:4/Mk13:5 G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE' ['a certain one' bringing deception])]" that Jesus also spoke about as "the beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" that He said comes AFTER the 70ad events, per the "chronology" He supplies in His Olivet Discourse (esp.Lk21:12's wording), and in Matt22:7 then 22:8 [SEQUENTIAL wording], and also in 2Th2, etc etc...]

 

[KJV1611]

That ^ is one of the passages I am constantly LISTING (along with others of the same Subject)... regarding Israel (where this is LIKENED UNTO a resurrection... just like in Dan12:1-4,10 and Ezek37:12-14,20-23 and Rom11:15[25], etc), read the passage carefully:

Isaiah 26, Daniel 12 and Ezekiel 37 aren't LIKE a resurrection, they are THE RESURRECTION and they have nothing to do with Romans 11.

Isaiah 26 -

13 O LORD our God, other lords beside thee have had dominion over us: but by thee only will we make mention of thy name.
14 They are dead, they shall not live; they are deceased, they shall not rise: therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them, and made all their memory to perish.

Other Gods have had dominion over Israel, those gods are dead, they will not live again, they will not be resurrected... because they were idols.

15 Thou hast increased the nation, O LORD, thou hast increased the nation: thou art glorified: thou hadst removed it far unto all the ends of the earth.

God has increased SPIRITUAL Israel. God has SPREAD it FAR, unto ALL of the earth... now including the Gentiles.

16 LORD, in trouble have they visited thee, they poured out a prayer when thy chastening was upon them.

When Jesus came and chastened the Jews, the Godly Jews repented and came to Christ.

17 Like as a woman with child, that draweth near the time of her delivery, is in pain, and crieth out in her pangs; so have we been in thy sight, O LORD.
18 We have been with child, we have been in pain, we have as it were brought forth wind; we have not wrought any deliverance in the earth; neither have the inhabitants of the world fallen.

Israel was literally with child, she was pregnant with Jesus and she was in pain to deliver her Messiah. She gave birth to him, The Spirit of Israel (wind) which was to bring deliverance to the Jews and to the world, whereas the Jewish way had not never brought deliverance to anyone.

19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust [see Hosea 2:23a ('I will sow her unto Me in the earth'), and related others!]: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

The Messiah is born and now crucified, Israel's dead men are resurrected, together with Christ and Isaiah's dead body. They rose and began singing praises to God for their deliverance.

20 Come, my people [when they are again called 'My people'], enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
21 For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

Come those of you that have ACCEPTED MY SON. Enter into the chambers that God has prepared for you (wilderness for time, times and the dividing of times) UNTIL my wrath has been FULLY poured out on YOUR WICKED brothers and sister that CRUCIFIED MY SON.

These wicked antichrist brothers and sisters are the Jews that dispensationalism worships.

[again, note that Paul says the ARRIVAL of "the DOTL" time period is like the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:2-3 (Matt24:4/Mk13:5 G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE' ['a certain one' bringing deception])]" that Jesus also spoke about as "the beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" that He said comes AFTER the 70ad events, per the "chronology" He supplies in His Olivet Discourse (esp.Lk21:12's wording), and in Matt22:7 then 22:8 [SEQUENTIAL wording], and also in 2Th2, etc etc...]

The day of the Lord is the time of Jacob's trouble, it happened when "Thy dead men rose". It happened when Jesus came and took the kingdom from the Ethnic Jews and gave it to ANOTHER NATION. God's wrath finally came to completion in 70 AD when the Jewish system of worship was totally annihilated in 70 AD.

 

[cv5]

I guess you guys believe that heaven really isn't fully heaven until we wait get our glorified bodies in the "future" resurrection? SMH

Edit: Maybe we should refer to the first entry into heaven as Heaven 1.0 and then when we get our glorified bodies we can call it Heaven 2.0.... the completed heaven.

Rev 5:10
And have made us kings and priests to our God; And we shall reign on the earth.”

Yes, the earth, in the millenium.

 

[Truth7t7]

I didn't say the resurrection had already passed, I said it's already STARTED. It's continuous. As soon as a believer dies he gets a glorified body and goes to heaven.

Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

A false teaching found no place in the Scripture.

The believers receive their glorified body at the "Last Day" resurrection of all that have lived, Daniel 12:1-2, John 5:28-29, 6:39-40

 

[Truth7t7]

Rev 5:10
And have made us kings and priests to our God; And we shall reign on the earth.”

Yes, the earth, in the millenium.

Wrong, the New Heaven And Earth.

Revelation 21 King James Version (KJV)
21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

 

[Truth7t7]

Isaiah 26, Daniel 12 and Ezekiel 37 aren't LIKE a resurrection, they are THE RESURRECTION and they have nothing to do with Romans 11.


Other Gods have had dominion over Israel, those gods are dead, they will not live again, they will not be resurrected... because they were idols.

God has increased SPIRITUAL Israel. God has SPREAD it FAR, unto ALL of the earth... now including the Gentiles.

When Jesus came and chastened the Jews, the Godly Jews repented and came to Christ.

Israel was literally with child, she was pregnant with Jesus and she was in pain to deliver her Messiah. She gave birth to him, The Spirit of Israel (wind) which was to bring deliverance to the Jews and to the world, whereas the Jewish way had not never brought deliverance to anyone.

The Messiah is born and now crucified, Israel's dead men are resurrected, together with Christ and Isaiah's dead body. They rose and began singing praises to God for their deliverance.

Come those of you that have ACCEPTED MY SON. Enter into the chambers that God has prepared for you (wilderness for time, times and the dividing of times) UNTIL my wrath has been FULLY poured out on YOUR WICKED brothers and sister that CRUCIFIED MY SON.

These wicked antichrist brothers and sisters are the Jews that dispensationalism worships.

The day of the Lord is the time of Jacob's trouble, it happened when "Thy dead men rose". It happened when Jesus came and took the kingdom from the Ethnic Jews and gave it to ANOTHER NATION. God's wrath finally came to completion in 70 AD when the Jewish system of worship was totally annihilated in 70 AD.

Your "Preterist" claim of 70AD fulfillment is false.

The Great Tribulation, and Fulfilling of the Gentiles/Jacobs troubled Is a "Future" event.

 

[KJV1611]

Rev 5:10
And have made us kings and priests to our God; And we shall reign on the earth.”

Yes, the earth, in the millenium.

Reign over what on the earth? Rule over the earthly kingdoms that are not part of the kingdom that comes without observance? Exactly what does "and we shall reign on the earth" mean?

Here are some biblical examples of Christ and believers reigning on the earth.

Luk_19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

1Co 4:8 Now ye are full, now ye are rich, ye have reigned as kings without us: and I would to God ye did reign, that we also might reign with you. (None of these guys were earthly kings, just common folk like us. Yet they are reigning as kings and so was Paul)

1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. (Christ and us, are reigning right now until Jesus puts all enemies under his feet.

 

[Truth7t7]

The Bible is clear that those resurrected saints went to heaven with Jesus. Why do think they wouldn’t go up with Christ? They had been redeemed by the blood of Christ do you think there still in Abraham’s bosom waiting on us to be raptured?

Your claim is "False"

Daniel 12:1-2 below "Clearly" shows the sequence of events regarding the "Last Day" resurrection of "All"

1.) Time Of Trouble/Great Tribulation, Matthew 24:21

2.) Final Judgement, Book of life is open, Rev 20:11-15

3.) Last Day Resurrection of "All", John 5:28-29, 6:39-40

Daniel 12:1-2KJV
12 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

 

[KJV1611]

A false teaching found no place in the Scripture.

The believers receive their glorified body at the "Last Day" resurrection of all that have lived, Daniel 12:1-2, John 5:28-29, 6:39-40

As far as I know, the only people in scripture that lived only as spirits were the spirits in Abraham's bosom. Their NATURAL bodies died and they could not receive their SPIRITUAL bodies until Christ came and paid the price. Christ paid the price and they now have their spiritual bodies and are in heaven with Jesus.

1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

The Old Testament saints were redeemed and then given spiritual bodies, we New Testament saints are redeemed and go straight to heaven in our spiritual bodies. Maybe you know of some scripture that says we believers enter heaven as disembodied spirits?

 

[KJV1611]

Your "Preterist" claim of 70AD fulfillment is false.

The Great Tribulation, and Fulfilling of the Gentiles/Jacobs troubled Is a "Future" event.

Yeah right. Tell that to the Jews that went through it.

 

[KJV1611]

Your claim is "False"

Daniel 12:1-2 below "Clearly" shows the sequence of events regarding the "Last Day" resurrection of "All"

1.) Time Of Trouble/Great Tribulation, Matthew 24:21

2.) Final Judgement, Book of life is open, Rev 20:11-15

3.) Last Day Resurrection of "All", John 5:28-29, 6:39-40

Daniel 12:1-2KJV
12 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

So the book of Acts tells us that Jesus will return "in like manner" (exactly the same way) as the way he left. The book of Jude tells us that Jesus returns with TEN THOUSANDS of his saints. That being so, how many saints went up with Jesus at his ascension?

 

[Truth7t7]

One future resurrection where only SOME of the dead are raised? Notice that it says MANY and not all. How does this fit your future resurrection? Why are some not resurrected?

Dan 12:2 (KJV) And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

You focus on a single word "Many" while intentionally trying to build a false interpretation of the very simple and plain Scripture "Sad"

Daniel 12:1-2 below clearly shows the resurrection is at the time of great tribulation, at the---

"Great White Throne Judgement"!

The Book Of Life is Open, This Is The "Final Judgement" Rev 20:11-15

It appears you bend and twist the truth of God's words, to put this event in your biased "Preterist" 70AD Fulfillment, "Falsely"

Daniel 12:1-2KJV
12 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

 

[KJV1611]

You focus on a single word "Many" while intentionally trying to build a false interpretation of the very simple and plain Scripture "Sad"

Daniel 12:1-2 below clearly shows the resurrection is at the time of great tribulation, at the---

"Great White Throne Judgement"!

The Book Of Life is Open, This Is The "Final Judgement" Rev 20:11-15

It appears you bend and twist the truth of God's words, to put this event in your biased "Preterist" 70AD Fulfillment, "Falsely"

Daniel 12:1-2KJV
12 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Are not all words THERE FOR A REASON? They are there for a reason, and the reason is to keep us from believing heresy's like dispensationalism. You igonore "Many" as if it's not there and I can assure you that you will never understand the resurrection.

 

[Truth7t7]

So the book of Acts tells us that Jesus will return "in like manner" (exactly the same way) as the way he left. The book of Jude tells us that Jesus returns with TEN THOUSANDS of his saints. That being so, how many saints went up with Jesus at his ascension?

You now add to scripture, and your false claim of

(Exactly The Same Way)

Why do you "Bend and Twist" the truth of God's simple and very clear words, why?

The key word below in Acts 1:11 is "Heaven", as Jesus Ascended, He Will Descend, As this "Future" Event is clearly seen in Matthew 24:29-30 below

Acts 1:11KJV
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

 

[Truth7t7]

Are not all words THERE FOR A REASON? They are there for a reason, and the reason is to keep us from believing heresy's like dispensationalism. You igonore "Many" as if it's not there and I can assure you that you will never understand the resurrection.

The word "Many" does not exclude the word "All"

Why do you "Bend and Twist" Gods word, in "Preterist" bias, in 70AD fulfillment.

 

[cv5]

Reign over what on the earth? Rule over the earthly kingdoms that are not part of the kingdom that comes without observance? Exactly what does "and we shall reign on the earth" mean?

Here are some biblical examples of Christ and believers reigning on the earth.

Luk_19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

1Co 4:8 Now ye are full, now ye are rich, ye have reigned as kings without us: and I would to God ye did reign, that we also might reign with you. (None of these guys were earthly kings, just common folk like us. Yet they are reigning as kings and so was Paul)

1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. (Christ and us, are reigning right now until Jesus puts all enemies under his feet.

The whole counsel of God my friend the whole counsel of God.

 

[KJV1611]

You now add to scripture, and your false claim of

(Exactly The Same Way)

Why do you "Bend and Twist" the truth of God's simple and very clear words, why?

The key word below in Acts 1:11 is "Heaven", as Jesus Ascended, He Will Descend, As this "Future" Event is clearly seen in Matthew 24:29-30 below

Acts 1:11KJV
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

You're right, it's very important that we know Jesus floated upward when he ascended. Look at the profound theological significance of knowing that Jesus floated upward into the clouds. I'm almost positive that's why God put that verse in the bible. SMH

 

[KJV1611]

The word "Many" does not exclude the word "All"

Why do you "Bend and Twist" Gods word, in "Preterist" bias, in 70AD fulfillment.

Many people will come to accept Jesus as their savior. Does that mean ALL PEOPLE will come to accept Jesus as their savior? Maybe you could give an example of a sentence where many of a group includes all of the group.

 

[KJV1611]

The whole counsel of God my friend the whole counsel of God.

Explain this to me. In Daniel 12:2, at the time of Jacob's trouble, some of the people were raised to everlasting life AT THE SAME TIME that some of the people were raised to everlasting contempt. Emphasis on both the just and the unjust were raised AT THE SAME TIME. Now read Revelation 20:4-5.

(Rev 20:4) And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

One group was raised BEFORE the 1000 year reign but the second group is raised AFTER the 1000 year reign. How does that fit your view of Daniel 12 and the resurrection during the time of Jacob's trouble?