Even then, the interpreter is listening to Paul and can easily convey what he is specifically claiming here. Whether from a first hand account or interpretation, it appears they had no issue in understanding Paul is discussing the Holy Spirit's Gift of Tongues. And that makes the importance of Speaking in Tongues more vital, in my opinion.
The Purpose of Speaking in Tongues
- Thread starter KelbyofGod
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Even then, the interpreter is listening to Paul and can easily convey what he is specifically claiming here. Whether from a first hand account or interpretation, it appears they had no issue in understanding Paul is discussing the Holy Spirit's Gift of Tongues. And that makes the importance of Speaking in Tongues more vital, in my opinion.
Curiously enough, I just came across this video today - though it may be a bit over the top, it's a great example of someone teaching in an "(unknown) tongue" and an interpreter standing next to him and interpreting the message into the vernacular so that all may benefit.
Imagine the same thing in ancient Corinth, only the tongue might be something like Galatian, and the vernacular Greek.
In this particular case however, the "tongue" is English, and the vernacular is Hindi.
Imagine the same thing in ancient Corinth, only the tongue might be something like Galatian, and the vernacular Greek.
In this particular case however, the "tongue" is English, and the vernacular is Hindi.
Hmmm.. Looks like I ought to come back to reviewing this thread.
Thanks to the few who know what speaking in tongues is and the benefits thereof, and are still sharing that in my absence. And I guess a warning goes to those who "speak evil of the things they understand not"...not a warning of someone else being here to fight against them, but a reminder that people who speak evil of the things they understand not "shall utterly perish in their own corruption;" without need of assistance from others.
Even the simple advice mothers give their children would protect from that kind of destruction (because that kind of destruction has to be VOLUNTEERED for, as no one is forced to speak evil of anything). Mommas have a bit of wisdom when they tell their children "If you don't have anything good to say, don't say anything at all".
Even though this thread has gotten off track several times, the opening posting offers that same advice to all who read it.
If someone thinks there is no good in speaking in tongues, they could easily avoid this thread and any evil they think it contains. And they would be protected from the dangers of 2 Peter 2:12. They could even start a positive thread promoting an alternative teaching and say something positive in that direction...which would also protect them from the dangers of 2 Peter 2:12.
But like I said....the utter perishing promised in 2 Peter 2:12 is only available to those who VOLUNTEER to speak evil of things they understand not.
And truly "speaking in tongues"(Did someone say glossalia?) is a thing the bible describes as "no man understandeth" - 1 Cor 14:2.
Nothing would prevent them from leaving the subject untouched and instead praying earnestly for any who they believe are deceived about it. (That also only happens voluntarily but has MUCH better consequences, which is why I recommend it.) Yet every man has the right to choose.
God sets before us Life and Death, blessing and cursing...therefore choose life. The choice is yours. You've been warned.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Thanks to the few who know what speaking in tongues is and the benefits thereof, and are still sharing that in my absence. And I guess a warning goes to those who "speak evil of the things they understand not"...not a warning of someone else being here to fight against them, but a reminder that people who speak evil of the things they understand not "shall utterly perish in their own corruption;" without need of assistance from others.
Even the simple advice mothers give their children would protect from that kind of destruction (because that kind of destruction has to be VOLUNTEERED for, as no one is forced to speak evil of anything). Mommas have a bit of wisdom when they tell their children "If you don't have anything good to say, don't say anything at all".
Even though this thread has gotten off track several times, the opening posting offers that same advice to all who read it.
If someone thinks there is no good in speaking in tongues, they could easily avoid this thread and any evil they think it contains. And they would be protected from the dangers of 2 Peter 2:12. They could even start a positive thread promoting an alternative teaching and say something positive in that direction...which would also protect them from the dangers of 2 Peter 2:12.
But like I said....the utter perishing promised in 2 Peter 2:12 is only available to those who VOLUNTEER to speak evil of things they understand not.
And truly "speaking in tongues"(Did someone say glossalia?) is a thing the bible describes as "no man understandeth" - 1 Cor 14:2.
Nothing would prevent them from leaving the subject untouched and instead praying earnestly for any who they believe are deceived about it. (That also only happens voluntarily but has MUCH better consequences, which is why I recommend it.) Yet every man has the right to choose.
God sets before us Life and Death, blessing and cursing...therefore choose life. The choice is yours. You've been warned.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Thats to judge is not my thing. I say only that this pentecostal teaching I do not find in the bible. And that if people who claim to have the baptising with the Holy Spirit and as Sign for it the gift of speaking in tongues and in the same time accepting doctrines like the RCC teaching. I can not believe them. The charismatic movements and also pentecostals ( maby not all) working for the ecumenical church. So where is there Gods Spirit?
Maby the search of power leads to an false Spirit.
Maby the search of power leads to an false Spirit.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
I never said, that Gods Spirit is not working today! I never said that God is not doing miracles and healings today.
Some? Today we have around 600-700 Million pentecostal and charismatic believers, which claim an Christian need to have the baptism with the Holy Spirit and as Sign for this the gift of speaking in tongues for to Serve God better, for to worship God better, for to please God better, for to have an closer relationship to God.
And out from them are around 25 Millions which claim that without speaking in tongues you are not saved.
Some?
That means automaticly every believer who has not this gift of speaking in tongues can not reach this quality of relationship and Service like one who speaks in tongues.
This teaching I do not find in the bible!
Some? Today we have around 600-700 Million pentecostal and charismatic believers, which claim an Christian need to have the baptism with the Holy Spirit and as Sign for this the gift of speaking in tongues for to Serve God better, for to worship God better, for to please God better, for to have an closer relationship to God.
And out from them are around 25 Millions which claim that without speaking in tongues you are not saved.
Some?
That means automaticly every believer who has not this gift of speaking in tongues can not reach this quality of relationship and Service like one who speaks in tongues.
This teaching I do not find in the bible!
-
1
- Show all
As in no (man) person at that particular public worship understands, because no one there understands/speaks the speaker's language. The speaker himself understands perfectly well what he's saying. There's just nothing in that text that even remotely suggests otherwise. Many people try to read into that particular text something that's just not there. One of the only ways in which modern tongues-speech can be Biblically 'evidenced' however, is if the speaker also has no clue what he's saying.
You just have not seen them so to you they don't happen because you think you think God needs your validation. Your false claim of 600-700 Million ? really where did you get hose numbers ? From Joe Biden? Untrue and makes you a false teacher no different than Benny Hinn or other like em. Wow I did not know you were all knowing your not even Pentecostal yet you think you know 600 Mil to 700mil. You are wrong again I am pentecostal and we don't think you need to have the Baptism in the Holy Spirit
JESUS SAID TO! He told the disciples in LUKE Gospel to WAIT UN TIL YOU HAVE BEEN EMPOWERED
Luke 24:49 NKJV
49 Behold, I send the Promise of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city [m]of Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high.”
NLT :49 “And now I will send the Holy Spirit, just as my Father promised. But stay here in the city until the Holy Spirit comes and fills you with power from heaven.”
Acts 1:8 Jesus said:
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
Your issue is not with Pentecostals it is with the word of God and What Jesus said to do.
You are untruthful. and Bias.
JESUS SAID TO! He told the disciples in LUKE Gospel to WAIT UN TIL YOU HAVE BEEN EMPOWERED
Luke 24:49 NKJV
49 Behold, I send the Promise of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city [m]of Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high.”
NLT :49 “And now I will send the Holy Spirit, just as my Father promised. But stay here in the city until the Holy Spirit comes and fills you with power from heaven.”
Acts 1:8 Jesus said:
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
Your issue is not with Pentecostals it is with the word of God and What Jesus said to do.
You are untruthful. and Bias.
This isnt trying to be smart alecky but That is exactly what we're saying. "NO man" includes the speaker.
That's why Paul goes on to say "if I speak in an unknown tongue" (which aparently is possible) "my spirit prays but my understanding is unfruitful" (aka my brain doesn't know what's being asked...which is also why others can't say amen because they also don't know what is being said, even though it is a good prayer)
When we pray in tongues we don't know what is being prayed but "he that searches the heart knows what is the mind of the Spirit for he (the spirit) makes intercession (prayer) for (on behalf of) the saints according to the will of God" - Romans 8:27
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
That's why Paul goes on to say "if I speak in an unknown tongue" (which aparently is possible) "my spirit prays but my understanding is unfruitful" (aka my brain doesn't know what's being asked...which is also why others can't say amen because they also don't know what is being said, even though it is a good prayer)
When we pray in tongues we don't know what is being prayed but "he that searches the heart knows what is the mind of the Spirit for he (the spirit) makes intercession (prayer) for (on behalf of) the saints according to the will of God" - Romans 8:27
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
About the numbers I may be wrong. When i heared about it, is some years ago.
I mean with this number pentecostals and charismatic with all there movements.
Maby you are not so well informed?
It may be that you are not thinking this, but you know that even among pentecostals are different teachings.
You may Think about me what you want. It is important what the Lord thinks about me.
I met many believers in Mission ministry which are used from the Lord for this ministry without speaking in tongues.
And when you study what Paul wrote about the believers in corinth, then you find our that speaking in tongues made them not to good followers of Christ. Where they are used this power of the Spirit? Paul called them spiritual Babys which needed milk as food instead of bread. So speaking in tongues says nothing about spiritual maturity.
According your teaching they all were baptised with the Holy Spirit for to get the Power of the Spirit.
I mean with this number pentecostals and charismatic with all there movements.
Maby you are not so well informed?
It may be that you are not thinking this, but you know that even among pentecostals are different teachings.
You may Think about me what you want. It is important what the Lord thinks about me.
I met many believers in Mission ministry which are used from the Lord for this ministry without speaking in tongues.
And when you study what Paul wrote about the believers in corinth, then you find our that speaking in tongues made them not to good followers of Christ. Where they are used this power of the Spirit? Paul called them spiritual Babys which needed milk as food instead of bread. So speaking in tongues says nothing about spiritual maturity.
According your teaching they all were baptised with the Holy Spirit for to get the Power of the Spirit.
Well, please dont read in what I not have said. Look into the list (f.e.by Google )and look who belongs to the ecumenical council.
I did not say that you belong to RCC.
Well I know you dont like what I say now. There is no different between pentecostals and charismatics. Of course there teachings are very different. And some oppose each other.
But they are common in the baptising with the Holy Spirit and the gift of speaking in tongues. And the believing that the so called Sign gifts are in the same way and intensy operating as in the apostolic days.
I read a Definition years ago. So pentecostals have in Common there own denominations. While charismatics going into already existing denominations. So you find charismatics in nearly all denominations.
I dont tell you what is not true, except the numbers can be different.
Why I should lie to you?
I did not say that you belong to RCC.
Well I know you dont like what I say now. There is no different between pentecostals and charismatics. Of course there teachings are very different. And some oppose each other.
But they are common in the baptising with the Holy Spirit and the gift of speaking in tongues. And the believing that the so called Sign gifts are in the same way and intensy operating as in the apostolic days.
I read a Definition years ago. So pentecostals have in Common there own denominations. While charismatics going into already existing denominations. So you find charismatics in nearly all denominations.
I dont tell you what is not true, except the numbers can be different.
Why I should lie to you?
-
1
- Show all
In my eyes, "Pentecostal" doesn't denote a particular doctrine. It simply means that person has had the same experience given on the day of Pentecost... the spirit came upon them and they began to speak with other tongues as the spirit gave them utterance.
The teachings that follow vary from individual to individual and group to group.
@CS1 believes it available but not necessary. I believe it available and necessary. .. But this particular thread isn't really about whether it is necessary or not. It's about what are the BENEFITS when and if someone receives it.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
The teachings that follow vary from individual to individual and group to group.
@CS1 believes it available but not necessary. I believe it available and necessary. .. But this particular thread isn't really about whether it is necessary or not. It's about what are the BENEFITS when and if someone receives it.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
-
1
-
1
- Show all
Oh, you heard?
There are different teaching amongst all groups in Christendom:
South Baptist, from First Baptist, Methodist from AME, etc...
Even Calvinist have different takes on the doctrine of Calvinism are you ready to condemn Calvinism?
You just look for what is worse yet you don't know how to edify.
I have been on the mission field and I have to seen many who has spoken in tongues while praying for others. Your experience nor mine makes the word of God to no effect.
Those in corinthians who were believers that spoke in tongues were made not good followers of Christ because of one of the gifts of
the Holy Spirit?
What a joke. Nowhere does it say that.
Paul said FORBID NOT speaking in tongues in chapter 14:39 after he said of the immaturity earlier in chapters 13 and 14 they were all having issues. Paul corrected them, not stopped them.
The gift of God is without repentance, are preachers not able to preach? Or did they use their gift wrongly?
baptism of the Holy Spirit is what Jesus taught, take it up with HIM. Do you even read the word of God?
you said this below:
"According your teaching they all were baptised with the Holy Spirit for to get the Power of the Spirit."
Wrong again. they were baptized by the Holy Spirit to receive power to be a witness as Jesus said would happen in Acts 1:8.
again your bias and lack of knowledge of the word of God you continue to display.
No Problem, I have nothing to add.
One thing, as I said please dont read in my post what I did not wrote. This is not fair.
With no word I deneyd what is written in the bible!
What I dont believe is, that everything is for today, as it was in the apostolic time.
Otherwise you could convince me easily.
Then you should read your post again were
You mentioned acts 1,8. Your second mentioning of this vers is different to the First.
Is it wrong that pentecostals teach that through baptising with the Holy Spirit they will get power from Him?
If this is wrong, then I am in deed not well informed.
I used this as an example.
If you teach this then the corinthian church must be full of believers which received the same power as the Apostles received.
Paul gave the church the testamonie, that they are Spiritual Babys. ( 1. Cor. 3,1-2)
Can it be that you Use the word which was spoken to the Apostles in acts 1,8 for yourself and the believers today?
Then give me the proof, that you have the same power as the Apostles had.
Then all the pentecostal believers must have the same power, like the apostle had.
Is this true?
I know many believers and missionaries which are a witness for the Lord without speaking an single word in tongues.
According pentecostal teaching they can this only do with the baptising with the Holy Spirit and as proof for that the gift of speaking in tongues.
Btw, I dont believe that any existing denomination is to 100% in there teachings, including me.
Kelby wantet to have this thread only for to discuss about the purpose of speaking in tongues in the apostolic time.
So we nicely spoiled it. Sorry again.
One thing, as I said please dont read in my post what I did not wrote. This is not fair.
With no word I deneyd what is written in the bible!
What I dont believe is, that everything is for today, as it was in the apostolic time.
Otherwise you could convince me easily.
Then you should read your post again were
You mentioned acts 1,8. Your second mentioning of this vers is different to the First.
Is it wrong that pentecostals teach that through baptising with the Holy Spirit they will get power from Him?
If this is wrong, then I am in deed not well informed.
I used this as an example.
If you teach this then the corinthian church must be full of believers which received the same power as the Apostles received.
Paul gave the church the testamonie, that they are Spiritual Babys. ( 1. Cor. 3,1-2)
Can it be that you Use the word which was spoken to the Apostles in acts 1,8 for yourself and the believers today?
Then give me the proof, that you have the same power as the Apostles had.
Then all the pentecostal believers must have the same power, like the apostle had.
Is this true?
I know many believers and missionaries which are a witness for the Lord without speaking an single word in tongues.
According pentecostal teaching they can this only do with the baptising with the Holy Spirit and as proof for that the gift of speaking in tongues.
Btw, I dont believe that any existing denomination is to 100% in there teachings, including me.
Kelby wantet to have this thread only for to discuss about the purpose of speaking in tongues in the apostolic time.
So we nicely spoiled it. Sorry again.
@wolfwint I don't like the comparison / guilt-by-association idea. (A.K.A. One person does something bad... So everyone with that hair color must be guilty of it too). So I"m going to simply use myself as "the bad guy with the holy ghost, babbly modern tongues-talking that did something super stupid" so we don't have to look for someone else.
I'll briefly tell you what I did, how bad it looked, what it resulted in, and THEN I'll tell you how God fixed all that stupidity because that's what God does when we repent and love him. He doesn't bash us with a YouTube video of our stupidity for the rest of our lives and tell everyone we were stupid for allowing ourselves to be vulnerable.
I was new to the faith, though I'd been raised reading the bible, going to a Baptist church and following Baptist doctrine. (Not trying to bash Baptists) But I'd recently been baptized in Jesus' name for remission of sins and received the Holy Ghost with the "modern", babbly, non-understandable speaking in tongues (through another church). And I loved it. I realized God was REAL, and he'd given me something I didn't have before, to pray things I didn't know. So I wanted to do anything I could to get more of God, and to get God to move more. So I thought "How did they get God to move in the bible? What else did the powerful ones do?"
And I thought of Moses and Jesus...what did they do that others didn't? Answer: FASTING They each fasted 40 days and God moved with them mightily.
But I was young and in a hurry. So I thought "40 days is a long time to wait. Isn't there a faster way?" Then I remembered Saul/Paul when God showed up to him on the road to Damascus. After God spoke to him, he was left blind for 3 days and neither ate nor drank until Ananias arrived to pray for him....and he received the Holy Ghost and God moved mightily for and through him. So I said "That's it! I've just got to add the not drinking part and I can get the same results in a 3-day fast!"
So I set out to do that. And guess what. The not-eating part is easy but the not drinking part (when you work full time as a cook) is kinda hard because you dehydrate, get hot, and your heart starts pounding as your blood thickens. So I repeatedly would fail my fast, eat, drink and start over to fullfil my promise. Turns out that fasting alot causes a loss of body mass. (Who knew?..lol) But I wasn't letting anything (including advice from pastors, teachers and brethren in Christ) sway me from my task. I was zealous and determined to complete my fast and get God to move. I eventually did but only JUST before the next thing happened.
So my repeated fast/fail/fast cycle caused a dramatic loss of body weight. At 5'11-1/2"tall I think I was 128-lbs when the cops took me from my home to the Psych ward for a "48 hour evaluation". <--yup, that happened (They weighed me immediately upon arrival). And if you show up on a Friday evening, they don't count the weekend so you get a bonus 48 hours of Saturday and Sunday (Just so you know).
It also turns out that if you've recently joined a Holy Ghost, speaking in tongues church just before you radically change your life style and lose a bunch of body weight, the group you just joined gets labelled "A CULT", and they start investigations. (Did I mention I don't do anything half-way?) The next morning God opened my understanding as to what I was doing wrong, and I immediately stopped the fast I was currently on, and was eventually released in the minimum amount of time. (Had to ask him why he couldn't have shown me that a day or two sooner..lol)
But meanwhile, I'd embarrassed my family, embarrassed myself, embarrassed my church and ruined my reputation in my home town (in which I also worked at the local Happy Chef Restaurant). And I asked God " I know you have forgiven me, but how are you going to restore my reputation?"
Fast forward 20-ish years and I was elected mayor of that same town, serving 3 terms. (At which point I concluded that God had more than restored my reputation.) Feel free to Google "Kelby, mayor, Iowa" if you need to verify the last part. I'm guessing HIPAA laws restrict looking into the other.
My point is that you don't have to say "look at the stupid things those other tongues-speakers do". You can just point at me. But God's got my back. He did then, and he does now.
And now that you know some "bad", it would be of value for you to ask "What kind of benefits make all of that bad (and more) worth enduring, along with the ridicule?" because the benefits are what this thread is about. They greatly outweigh the downsides.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
I'll briefly tell you what I did, how bad it looked, what it resulted in, and THEN I'll tell you how God fixed all that stupidity because that's what God does when we repent and love him. He doesn't bash us with a YouTube video of our stupidity for the rest of our lives and tell everyone we were stupid for allowing ourselves to be vulnerable.
I was new to the faith, though I'd been raised reading the bible, going to a Baptist church and following Baptist doctrine. (Not trying to bash Baptists) But I'd recently been baptized in Jesus' name for remission of sins and received the Holy Ghost with the "modern", babbly, non-understandable speaking in tongues (through another church). And I loved it. I realized God was REAL, and he'd given me something I didn't have before, to pray things I didn't know. So I wanted to do anything I could to get more of God, and to get God to move more. So I thought "How did they get God to move in the bible? What else did the powerful ones do?"
And I thought of Moses and Jesus...what did they do that others didn't? Answer: FASTING They each fasted 40 days and God moved with them mightily.
But I was young and in a hurry. So I thought "40 days is a long time to wait. Isn't there a faster way?" Then I remembered Saul/Paul when God showed up to him on the road to Damascus. After God spoke to him, he was left blind for 3 days and neither ate nor drank until Ananias arrived to pray for him....and he received the Holy Ghost and God moved mightily for and through him. So I said "That's it! I've just got to add the not drinking part and I can get the same results in a 3-day fast!"
So I set out to do that. And guess what. The not-eating part is easy but the not drinking part (when you work full time as a cook) is kinda hard because you dehydrate, get hot, and your heart starts pounding as your blood thickens. So I repeatedly would fail my fast, eat, drink and start over to fullfil my promise. Turns out that fasting alot causes a loss of body mass. (Who knew?..lol) But I wasn't letting anything (including advice from pastors, teachers and brethren in Christ) sway me from my task. I was zealous and determined to complete my fast and get God to move. I eventually did but only JUST before the next thing happened.
So my repeated fast/fail/fast cycle caused a dramatic loss of body weight. At 5'11-1/2"tall I think I was 128-lbs when the cops took me from my home to the Psych ward for a "48 hour evaluation". <--yup, that happened (They weighed me immediately upon arrival). And if you show up on a Friday evening, they don't count the weekend so you get a bonus 48 hours of Saturday and Sunday (Just so you know).
It also turns out that if you've recently joined a Holy Ghost, speaking in tongues church just before you radically change your life style and lose a bunch of body weight, the group you just joined gets labelled "A CULT", and they start investigations.
(Did I mention I don't do anything half-way?) The next morning God opened my understanding as to what I was doing wrong, and I immediately stopped the fast I was currently on, and was eventually released in the minimum amount of time. (Had to ask him why he couldn't have shown me that a day or two sooner..lol)But meanwhile, I'd embarrassed my family, embarrassed myself, embarrassed my church and ruined my reputation in my home town (in which I also worked at the local Happy Chef Restaurant). And I asked God " I know you have forgiven me, but how are you going to restore my reputation?"
Fast forward 20-ish years and I was elected mayor of that same town, serving 3 terms. (At which point I concluded that God had more than restored my reputation.) Feel free to Google "Kelby, mayor, Iowa" if you need to verify the last part. I'm guessing HIPAA laws restrict looking into the other.
My point is that you don't have to say "look at the stupid things those other tongues-speakers do". You can just point at me. But God's got my back. He did then, and he does now.
And now that you know some "bad", it would be of value for you to ask "What kind of benefits make all of that bad (and more) worth enduring, along with the ridicule?" because the benefits are what this thread is about. They greatly outweigh the downsides.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
-
1
- Show all
I agree with all of that except the last few words. We distinctly need to serve others selflessly, but my experience is that as we serve others, it benefits the individual at least as much. Kind of the "It is more blessed to give than receive". But that is NOT a point of contention. I greatly appreciate the point of your post, and agree.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Love in Jesus,
Kelby