I used to love Pastor John Piper, but does he believe in Lordship Salvation?

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Radius

Radius

Senior Member
#1
Feb 11, 2013
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#1
He seems to be giving an awful lot of contradictory statements in his latest youtube video that I usually love to watch. I was glad to see many of the commenters were also confused. He is quoting Scripture with the keeping power of God but then it sounds like he also says if you sin too much you are not saved.
If that's the case, where's the "line" where if you sin "this much" you are not saved anymore.

He made this video to clarify his stance of assurance, but after listening to it, in my mind, he did nothing to clear anything up. Too bad, I really liked his Youtube channel. Please listen if you have a chance.

 
Radius

Radius

Senior Member
#2
Feb 11, 2013
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#2
And then I saw this video which shows more of what he believes:
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#3
Jan 17, 2020
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Radius said:
And then I saw this video which shows more of what he believes:
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After hearing both recordings I don't think he understands how grace harmonizes with works. He tries instead to harmonize Calvinism with Arminianism with a clean break with grace into salvation by works. The true child of God knows if he walks far off, God won't abandon him or her but will grab them and use corrective measures so they don't do that again. Just like any loving parent. Yikes, he's really butchering this.
 
Radius

Radius

Senior Member
#4
Feb 11, 2013
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Dave-L said:
After hearing both recordings I don't think he understands how grace harmonizes with works. He tries instead to harmonize Calvinism with Arminianism with a clean break with grace into salvation by works. The true child of God knows if he walks far off, God won't abandon him or her but will grab them and use corrective measures so they don't do that again. Just like any loving parent. Yikes, he's really butchering this.
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I'm glad to hear you say this. I too thought something was off. His response video left me even more confused.

Thanks for taking the time to listen to both videos I posted!
 
tourist

tourist

Senior Member
#5
Mar 13, 2014
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Tennessee
#5
I don't know about Pastor John Piper but it has been my understanding that Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled peppers.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#6
Jul 18, 2017
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Radius said:
He is quoting Scripture with the keeping power of God but then it sounds like he also says if you sin too much you are not saved.
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When men choose to compromise God's truth, they go off the rails. Personally I have had no interest in John Piper's theology.

Since you mention Lordship Salvation, Christians are frequently confused about that. But there is a separate thread on that subject where the OP remains confused even after he is shown the truth.

The Bible makes it perfectly clear that sinners must receive Christ as BOTH Lord and Savior in order to receive the gift of eternal life. And the Bible also upholds the eternal security of the believer.
 
Radius

Radius

Senior Member
#7
Feb 11, 2013
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Nehemiah6 said:
When men choose to compromise God's truth, they go off the rails. Personally I have had no interest in John Piper's theology.

Since you mention Lordship Salvation, Christians are frequently confused about that. But there is a separate thread on that subject where the OP remains confused even after he is shown the truth.

The Bible makes it perfectly clear that sinners must receive Christ as BOTH Lord and Savior in order to receive the gift of eternal life. And the Bible also upholds the eternal security of the believer.
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Thanks, I'll have a look at that thread.
 
J

Judges1318

Banned
#8
Nov 16, 2019
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#8
Radius said:
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From the video:

"Those warnings are in the Bible not to destroy assurance, but to prevent false assurance. People who think that they are on their way to heaven but who don't hate their sin and fight it are deluded. They should not have assurance.

So the warnings are a life giving, soul saving litmus test to help us born again people hear the warnings; they tremble, they turn to Christ for forgiveness and for the power to kill sin. [...] In that turning to Christ and in that resolve to kill sin in the power of Christ the Spirit bears witness that they are the children of God."
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#9
#9
Radius said:
Thanks, I'll have a look at that thread.
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Salvation is by grace though faith and not by works.
Salvation is a gift... we do not submit in return for the gift, ..... that is contrary to grace.
So lordship salvation is incorrect.
 
J

Judges1318

Banned
#10
Nov 16, 2019
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EleventhHour said:
Salvation is by grace though faith and not by works.
Salvation is a gift... we do not submit in return for the gift, ..... that is contrary to grace.
So lordship salvation is incorrect.
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You submit to Jesus as Lord BECAUSE you are saved, not in exchange for salvation.
Salvation changes a person into a person who loves Jesus and wants to serve him.
The person in whom Jesus is not Lord is not saved, their disobedience bearing witness to the absence of the Holy Spirit in their lives in salvation.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#11
#11
Judges1318 said:
You submit to Jesus as Lord BECAUSE you are saved, not in exchange for salvation.
Salvation changes a person into a person who loves Jesus and wants to serve him.
The person in whom Jesus is not Lord is not saved, their disobedience bearing witness to the absence of the Holy Spirit in their lives in salvation.
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Of course this would be true for the person who denies the "irrevocable gift of salvation" given by the Grace of God
 
T

tantalon

Active member
#12
Oct 11, 2019
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It IS Salvation WITHOUT works, and afterwards , salvation THAT works. See Romans 8: 4... "That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who Walk not After the flesh, but after the Spirit". Or, Romans 3: 31. "Do we then make void the law through Faith? God forbid, yea, we ESTABLISH the Law". These verses speak of our walk AFTER salvation, and are not a part of it, but what God expects AFTER our conversion. Romans 10: 4. For Christ is, The end of the Law FOR righteousness, to everyone that believes.
 
J

Judges1318

Banned
#13
Nov 16, 2019
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#13
Judges1318 said:
You submit to Jesus as Lord BECAUSE you are saved, not in exchange for salvation.
Salvation changes a person into a person who loves Jesus and wants to serve him.
The person in whom Jesus is not Lord is not saved, their disobedience bearing witness to the absence of the Holy Spirit in their lives in salvation.
Click to expand...
EleventhHour said:
Of course this would be true for the person who denies the "irrevocable gift of salvation" given by the Grace of God
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Even Calvinist osas agrees with what I said.

If you do not have a changed/changing life in which Jesus is Lord you are not saved for the matter of osas to even matter. As John Piper says, the person who thinks they are on their way to heaven and doesn't hate and fight against their sin is deluded:

"People who think that they are on their way to heaven but who don't hate their sin and fight it are deluded. They should not have assurance.

So the warnings are a life giving, soul saving litmus test to help us born again people hear the warnings; they tremble, they turn to Christ for forgiveness and for the power to kill sin." - John Piper

Obedience (a.k.a. obeying Jesus as Lord) is the sign you are in covenant with God in salvation. Disobedience is the sign you are not.
 
J

Judges1318

Banned
#14
Nov 16, 2019
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#14
EleventhHour said:
Of course this would be true for the person who denies the "irrevocable gift of salvation" given by the Grace of God
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I'm very confident that John Piper does not deny osas, yet he is in complete agreement with what I said.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#15
#15
Judges1318 said:
I'm very confident that John Piper does not deny osas, yet he is in complete agreement with what I said.
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Good for him.. doesn't mean he is right.

"Loadship" salvation dominates the landscape... "quid pro quo"... a doctrine subtly against the free gift of salvation.
One does not turn from sin to be saved.
One comes TO A Saviour to be saved
 
J

Judges1318

Banned
#16
Nov 16, 2019
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#16
EleventhHour said:
... we do not submit in return for the gift, ..... that is contrary to grace.
So lordship salvation is incorrect.
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By the way, that's not the definition of Lordship salvation.

"Lordship salvation teaches that a true profession of faith will be backed up by evidence of faith. If a person is truly following the Lord, then he or she will obey the Lord’s instructions. A person who is living in willful, unrepentant sin has obviously not chosen to follow Christ, because Christ calls us out of sin and into righteousness. Indeed, the Bible clearly teaches that faith in Christ will result in a changed life (2 Corinthians 5:17; Galatians 5:22–23; James 2:14–26)."

https://www.gotquestions.org/lordship-salvation.html
 
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