The Purpose of Speaking in Tongues
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Matthew also issued a written Gospel among the Hebrews in their own dialect, while Peter and Paul were preaching in Rome and laying the foundation of the Church. After their departure, Mark, the disciple and interpreter of Peter, did also hand down to us in writing what had been preached by Peter. Luke also, the companion of Paul, recorded in a book the Gospel preached by him. Afterwards John, the disciple of the Lord, who also had leaned upon his breast, did himself publish a Gospel during his residence at Ephesus in Asia. (Against Heresies 3:1:1)
Look where I highlighted. "Mark, the disciple and interpreter of Peter," That tells us Peter DID NOT speak Greek if he used an interpreter. So his writings had to be in Hebrew as well.
Matthew also issued a written Gospel among the Hebrews in their own dialect, while Peter and Paul were preaching in Rome and laying the foundation of the Church. After their departure, Mark, the disciple and interpreter of Peter, did also hand down to us in writing what had been preached by Peter. Luke also, the companion of Paul, recorded in a book the Gospel preached by him. Afterwards John, the disciple of the Lord, who also had leaned upon his breast, did himself publish a Gospel during his residence at Ephesus in Asia. (Against Heresies 3:1:1)
Look where I highlighted. "Mark, the disciple and interpreter of Peter," That tells us Peter DID NOT speak Greek if he used an interpreter. So his writings had to be in Hebrew as well.
False assumption. Praying in the Holy Spirit is not praying in tongues. Prayer in earnest and praying in the Holy Spirit James 5:16.
It is not possible to be built up without knowledge.
Jesus prayed is such earnest that He sweat great drops of blood yet no tongues go figure.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
James wrote neither about "praying in the Holy Spirit" nor about edification in that passage.
Where is that in Scripture? It's a silly assertion and one without any merit of truth. It also contradicts plain Scripture which states, "Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up" (1 Corinthians 8:1).
Irrelevant.
Where Paul taught in acts, that speaking in tongues is a gift of seeing Baptist with the Holy Spirit. And everybody who is baptised with the Holy Spirit hot the gift of speaking in tongues to any other believer?
The only event Paul where was involved in this was acts 19. When he met the disciples of John the Baptist. Which was to proof that the Holy Spirit was given to all people, not only to the jews.
You Use this events in acts 2, 8, 10 and 19 to create the doctrine that every believer who is baptised with the Holy Spirit is getting the gift of speaking in tongues as Sign of it. But you have no Single evidence, that this was in this way taught to other believers in the NT, after pentecost. Your conclusion is, it was so in acts 2,8,10 and 19, so it is to all believers.
Who is adding something to the scripture.?
Paul several Times makes clear in the first Letter to the corinthians, that speaking in tongues is a gift like all other Spiritual gifts and is not a Sign for beeing baptised with the Holy Spirit. Otherwise he must exclude some of the church for beeing baptised with the Holy Spirit, because he statet clear that not all will get this gift.
Also he made very clear, that speaking in tongues is a very small gift.
In the teachings today its role became such important, that it dominante all other gifts.
Also determines this gift you are Spiritual ore not. This gift open to you to serve better, to please God the father better, to understand the Holy Spirit better, to praise God better.
And if you have it not, you lack an important tool as believer in your ministrie. Because if you have it not you also have not the baptism with the Holy Spirit.
So who adds something to the scripture?
You are right, so far I know I never heard someone speaking in tongues. But I heared from people who were put in pressure from there church, because the dont speak in tongues.
And I said, it may be that God is uesing speaking in tongues in Mission ministrie. I did not expierienced it in 20 years involving in Mission ministrie in India. But I expierienced that God heals and because of this people turns to Christ.
And I see people who claim to be baptised with the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues and claim to be Spiritual and have a good speech, but defend and follow the doctrines of the RCC.
For me a fact which fit not together.
The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of truth and he is not supporting doctrines of lie.
This why I dont believe the pentecostal/ charismatic doctrine of this.
If we would have this gift today and it would be from God we would not have this Discussion.
Let's be careful here. I do not want to question your prayer. It is not my intent to get personal in any discussion of prayer. It evident in a general sense that those who do not understand James in this passage do not understand believers prayer. It is likely that many believers do not pray. Prayer is a labor of love and it is hard work.
Read the Proverbs and understand Gods admonition to seek knowledge to gain understanding and develop wisdom. We are admonished to study the scriptures that is to seek knowledge of the Holy things of God.
Meaning you have no inane quip or barb to throw back.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Some say that "speaking in tongues" did exist at one time (because it's written in the bible) but is not for today. ( ... ) But OK, let's give them the benefit of the doubt on that one.
Let's NOT argue whether or not speaking in tongues is for today. We can limit the discussion to the benefits of speaking in tongues DURING the times that the bible DOES allow speaking in tongues, since this is a Bible Discussion Forum and speaking in tongues was given by God to at least some according to the word of God, in the bible.
In other words, since the bible says that speaking in tongues was a gift of the Holy Ghost in the bible)...WHY was it given? WHAT does the bible say it accomplishes (while it is in operation)?
And to be clear about this...whether or not tongues ceased (or will cease) HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ITS PURPOSE DURING THE TIME OF ITS EXISTENCE. So please pay attention to when people are trying to get off topic. We're only looking at what "speaking in tongues" does accomplish, while it is functioning, as described in the BIBLE. What are the benefits? And let's be patient and thorough about it.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Dear;
First of all, a general answer to the question is that, if we do not know why a text is written and if we do not understand the purpose of the text, then we have a problem. The reason is that the bible tells us that the spirit of the truth will not confuse us but will make us clear about everting. However, if we are not clear about the texts in the bible then that indicates a problem, a problem that exists amongst us but we do not see or we ignore it.
Just imagine the Sadassaes and Pharisees during the time of Jesus: they know that the Lord will come but when he came down on earth and was on earth, they ignore him and never try to reason out why they are confused. They think what they already know is better than any idea from someone not important to them.
Secondly, speaking in tongues exist because it must be interpreted, and when it is interpreted, people must understand it and the interpretation is the words that God speaks directly to his people. This is not seen.
The term “do exist at one time” does not sound good as it supposed to exist from the start until now. If people say speaking in tongue exists in the past and do not exist today, then the question is where did it go????? We claim that we have received the Holy Spirit and then say that speaking in tongues exist in the past and is gone now. Why we should fool ourselves when we should simply say that we have not received the Holy Spirit and need to receive it.
If people confuse about the bible, and also confuse about speaking in tongues, then does that question our believe about receiving the Holy Spirit. In addition to that, may people interpret the bible in may ways when all supposed to interpret the bible in the same way because we all believe that we have received the Holy Spirit? We should do that but we did not? Because we have a problem. That problem is that we pretend that we have received the Holy Spirit.
One can say that the proof is we have to speak in tongues, but is it being interpreted and is understood by people because that is the way God wants to speak to his people. Secondly, the Bible does not support our belief about the receiving of the Holy Spirit.
According to the bible, the entire world did not receive the Holy Spirit, which includes those who believe, baptized in water, and hears the good news.
Where is that in Scripture? It's a silly assertion and one without any merit of truth. It also contradicts plain Scripture which states, "Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up" (1 Corinthians 8:1).
It supports scripture. Knowledge without love it puffs up. It is not possible to be built up love without knowledge .
Self edifying pride builds up showing no love. The cause of the fall. it would be like .Did God really say not to build a faith, on pride? Look I did it. I am alive.
It supports scripture. Knowledge without love it puffs up. It is not possible to be built up love without knowledge .
Self edifying pride builds up showing no love. The cause of the fall. it would be like .Did God really say not to build a faith, on pride? Look I did it. I am alive.
James says nothing about "praying in the Holy Spirit" which is what you claimed. You're changing the subject... again.
I'm well aware of this.
No; it means that your statement is irrelevant to the question of speaking in tongues. The absence of any statement about Jesus praying in tongues is absolutely meaningless to the question at hand. The Holy Spirit gave the gift of speaking in tongues to believers in the early church. If you want to make Jesus' experience relevant, you must toss Acts 2, 10, 11, and 1 Corinthians 14.
John 14: 16-17, the people of the world will not receive Holy SPirt, they will not see, and they will not know. Only His disciples will receive the Holy Spirit.
John 20: 20-22, Jesus said receive it, and he blew his holy spirit to his disciples only and not to everyone.
Luke 24: 49, the disciples must be at Jerusalem and they must not go out before receiving the Holy Spirit.
When Holy Spirit came after 8 days (acts 1: 1-4, 2: 1-4) they begin to leave Jerusalem and to go out because they have already received the Holy Spirit, Acts 8: 16-17.
When they went out to Jerusalem after, they pray to the people who have already baptized
in water in the name of Lord Jesus Christ, they have believed in the name of Jesus, they hard the word of God but they have not received the Holy Spirit Act 8: 14-16, 19: 1-7. How come is this possible when the Holy Spirit hard already came down after 8 days. because Jesus promises to give his Holy Spirit only to his disciples only and not the entire world. That is why Jesus said in John 14: 16-17, people of the world will not receive, KNow, and get HOly SPirti but only his disciples will.
People heard the word of God just like your and I, They believe in Jesus Christ, They baptize in water but they have not received the Holy Spirit when Holy Spirit came down. But they receive it when the disciples prayed for them. however, when they died, guess what happens?????????????
John 20: 20-22, Jesus said receive it, and he blew his holy spirit to his disciples only and not to everyone.
Luke 24: 49, the disciples must be at Jerusalem and they must not go out before receiving the Holy Spirit.
When Holy Spirit came after 8 days (acts 1: 1-4, 2: 1-4) they begin to leave Jerusalem and to go out because they have already received the Holy Spirit, Acts 8: 16-17.
When they went out to Jerusalem after, they pray to the people who have already baptized
in water in the name of Lord Jesus Christ, they have believed in the name of Jesus, they hard the word of God but they have not received the Holy Spirit Act 8: 14-16, 19: 1-7. How come is this possible when the Holy Spirit hard already came down after 8 days. because Jesus promises to give his Holy Spirit only to his disciples only and not the entire world. That is why Jesus said in John 14: 16-17, people of the world will not receive, KNow, and get HOly SPirti but only his disciples will.
People heard the word of God just like your and I, They believe in Jesus Christ, They baptize in water but they have not received the Holy Spirit when Holy Spirit came down. But they receive it when the disciples prayed for them. however, when they died, guess what happens?????????????
John 14: 16-17, the people of the world will not receive Holy SPirit, they will not see, and they will not know. Only His disciples will receive the Holy Spirit.
John 20: 20-22, Jesus said receive it, and he blew his holy spirit to his disciples only and not to everyone.
Luke 24: 49, the disciples must be at Jerusalem and they must not go out before receiving the Holy Spirit.
When Holy Spirit came after 8 days (acts 1: 1-4, 2: 1-4) they begin to leave Jerusalem and to go out because they have already received the Holy Spirit, Acts 8: 16-17.
When they went out to Jerusalem after 8 days, they pray to the people who have already baptized
in water in the name of Lord Jesus Christ, they have believed in the name of Jesus, they hard the word of God but they have not received the Holy Spirit Act 8: 14-16, 19: 1-7. How come is this possible when the Holy Spirit had already come down after 8 days. because Jesus promises to give his Holy Spirit only to his disciples only and not the entire world. That is why Jesus said in John 14: 16-17, people of the world will not receive, KNow, and get HOly SPirti but only his disciples will.
People heard the word of God just like your and I, They believe in Jesus Christ, They baptize in water but they have not received the Holy Spirit when Holy Spirit came down. But they receive it when the disciples prayed for them. however, when they died, guess what happens?????????????
wrong You for get the house of Cornelius Peter was sent to BY Jesus . remember not just a verse here and there of the Book of Acts all of it is contextual to the Holy Spirit. Just because Paul may have only event as you say it was not the only one.
Again, I know it is hard for you But 1 Corinthians chapter 12-14 is Paul teaching on the Gifts of the Holy Spirit.
1cor 12:1 " Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be ignorant:"
You may not know this but the word "Ignorant" means unlearned. Which is direct evidence Paul taught on the Gifts of the Holy Spirit.
Your bias is telling. You try to make false claim I am adding to the word of God while you remove it. Hypocrisy.
Now you want to try and cheapen the Gifts of the Holy Spirit to say that
" speaking in tongues is a very small gift."
Tongue is not a small gift, it is a gift of the Holy Spirit. You just don't like it because of your distain for those you disagree with. You attack RCC and other s yet you have not shown in the word of God where the Gifts of the Holy Spirit are not for today. Your last comment is too telling:
"If we would have this gift today and it would be from God we would not have this Discussion."
speak for yourself, if you would have this gift as many do today you would not be having this discussion.
You are bias.
You did not answer his question.
You said :
"Read the Proverbs and understand Gods admonition to seek knowledge to gain understanding and develop wisdom. We are admonished to study the scriptures that is to seek knowledge of the Holy things of God."
What about what Jesus said about it? in John chapters 14 to 16? or Mark 16 ?
First of all, the prayer from Jesus was God to God so there was no need for it to be in the Spiritual Language.
But Jesus did say this:
Mark 16:17
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
The Holy Spirit gives us that knowledge and praying in the Holy Spirit opens that doorway according to Jude.
James 5:
ܗܘܝܬܘܢ ܕܝܢ ܡܘܕܝܢ ܣܟܠܘܬܟܘܢ ܚܕ ܠܚܕ ܘܗܘܝܬܘܢ ܡܨܠܝܢ ܚܕ ܥܠ ܚܕ ܕܬܬܐܣܘܢ ܪܒ ܗܘ ܓܝܪ ܚܝܠܗ ܕܨܠܘܬܐ ܐܝܕܐ ܕܙܕܝܩܐ ܡܨܠܐ ܠܗ
16 But, be confessing saklwathkun {your transgressions} one unto another, and be praying one concerning another, so that you will be healed. Great is the power of the prayer for whom that just one is praying for.
^
The prayer James mention is about praying for someone else, not for yourself.
You, like wolfwint, are so opposed of Speaking in Tongues, you twist Scripture for your own purpose. Are you even aware God sees this? Didn't God say to not add/remove from His Word? And what did God say if you do as such would happen?
I find it difficult to believe that you do not know these scriptures but I will provide some to satisfy your question.
Proverbs 4:1 ¶ Hear, ye children, the instruction of a father, and attend to know understanding.
2 For I give you good doctrine, forsake ye not my law.
3 For I was my father’s son, tender and only beloved in the sight of my mother.
4 He taught me also, and said unto me, Let thine heart retain my words: keep my commandments, and live.
5 Get wisdom, get understanding: forget it not; neither decline from the words of my mouth.
6 Forsake her not, and she shall preserve thee: love her, and she shall keep thee.
7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.
8 Exalt her, and she shall promote thee: she shall bring thee to honour, when thou dost embrace her.
2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
I showed you John 14 in an earlier post. Holy Spirit leads into what He has heard of the Father. Jesus was obedient to the Father neither person of the Godhead acted in a capricious or self willed fashion.
The long ending of Mark 16 must be understood in light of the rest of scripture. The long ending of Mark cannot stand alone in isolation as it is of questionable origins. The tongues in Mark 16 are tongues that have received the newness of life from being born again. They are not to be taken as what errantly is seen as tongues in today's church.
This is for those who believe Gods word.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
You are attempting to bully me with errant doctrine. Mark 16 is not scripture upon which to build doctrine, Mark 16 the long ending is of questionable origins.
Jesus was asked to teach the apostles to pray. Jesus did not instruct them to pray in tongues. You are representing the scriptures in a fashion that assumes they say what they do not say. If you think that praying in tongues is efficacious then you are saying that it does not matter what you say to God because God doesn't care what is in your heart.
Be not deceived God is not mocked. Whatsoever a man soweth of that shall he reap. Gal 6:7
For the cause of Christ
Roger