The Purpose of Speaking in Tongues

[Dino246]

By yourself, by yourself, by yourself, edifying yourself .

Here is your earlier claim: "I know what you wrote it supported self-edification a faithless pagan foundation"

My words did not do that.

You are a liar.

Have a nice day. I'm done with you.

 

[dcontroversal]

Cease, fail, vanish away, and now abides

7 of the many words (amongst many in the bible) overlooked, ignored within context and or denied on a regular basis!

 

[notuptome]

more senseless attacks or once character. The Holy Spirit Never stopped do this. Jesus said the Holy Spirit will be with you and IN YOU John 14:17.

God or does endure yet even if there was no Bible HIS word would Continue. This why you are unlearned. And prideful.

John 16:13 Holy Spirit will not speak of Himself but whatever He shall hear that shall He speak.

The more you accuse others of being unlearned the more you demonstrate your lack of sound bible teaching.

Gods word became the bible as the apostles told you. Given for you to be completely furnished unto all good works. The OT prophets gave Gods word which Israel was charged with taking to the heathen nations round about them.

There is so much more than just three chapters in Corinthians. The rest of the bible helps you understand those three chapters and that very much includes Genesis.

May God give you a heart fit for repentance.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

Let me clarify... What I'd just said is not a lessening of the actual value of the bible. It simply proves that the bible can't be the "that which is perfect" mentioned in 1 Corinthians 13:10. Because, if the last words of Revelation were the last words needed to complete "that which is perfect", then "the bible" was NOT a necessary component of perfection because for 300 YEARS after Revelation was written there were ZERO BIBLES.

I will be praying for you because I know it could be difficult to adjust to that reality and I am for you, not against you.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

Not a component but the perfection. That which God has given as complete that His people can be thoroughly furnished unto all good works. 2 Tim 3:16

You should ask these things at home.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[jaybird88]

It is very likely that Paul was drawing off of the Jewish religious custom and tradition (earliest “documentation” of this tradition may be found in Nehemiah 8 concerning ‘Ezra the Scribe’), whereby it was customary to have any readings, prayers, instruction, etc. given first in the Hebrew language, despite the fact virtually no one listening understood it. As soon as a few phrases were uttered, a reader standing next to the teacher would translate what was being said into the vernacular. This custom was carried to the early Christian church.

Maimonides, a renown 12th century Rabbi, scholar, and physician (considered one of the most influential and revered Jewish thinkers in the Middle Ages) also commented on this tradition. One if his comments is:

“From the time of Ezra, it was customary that a translator would translate to the people the [passages] read by the reader from the Torah, so that they would understand the subject matter. The office of the interpreter in Jewish liturgy.”

The Aramaic word for interpreter in the Talmud Megillah and commentaries associated with it is מתרגם meturgem in the singular and מתרגמין meturgemin in the plural. The plural is used more often.

In English this office is called the “meturgeman”. The interpreter had twofold usage as described by a Torah website:

"There were two types of Merturgemans (translators/interpreters). The first is the kind who stood by the Torah reader in the synagogue and translated into Aramaic as the reader read, verse by verse. It is mentioned dozens of times in the Talmud; once the Jews were exiled to Babylon, their vernacular was Aramaic – only the scholars and elders spoke or understood Hebrew. Thus, to make Torah reading understandable, it was translated.

In the same way, the Meturgeman would also sit by the Rabbi in the synagogue or the study hall. When the Rabbi would share words of Torah with the congregation or with his students, he would speak quietly in Hebrew and the translator would repeat his words in Aramaic."

Translating from one language to another, particularly the nuances of religious text and subject matter is no easy task. Indeed, Paul it’s very likely this concept is what Paul meant when he refers to the ‘gift of interpretation’.

The interpreter may not be the only individual in a given situation who knows the language of the speaker, but he’s typically the only one who has the ability to accurately translate what’s being said into the vernacular.

The point is in the first century Jewish world, religious service, readings, teaching, etc. particularly when done from a Temple (and especially from the Temple in Jerusalem), by historic custom and tradition were to be done *first* in Hebrew, then followed by translations into the vernacular – in short, Hebrew was the _expected language to be heard first_ . The apostles at Pentecost completely did away with this tradition and just began to speak to the crowd in the vernacular, dispensing with Hebrew altogether.

if the interpreter is the only one that understands the message, how do you test the message to know if it is legit? it sounds to me there is no way to test it which would mean anyone can claim they understand and can tell you what ever they want to tell you, maybe tell everyone to drink the koolaid. this doesnt sound like its on the up and up to me. not to mention Jesus and the 12 never did this.

 

[biker]

The Book of Jude gives us the best reason why it is most vital.

20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

For those who aren't aware, praying in the Holy Ghost is praying while speaking in Tongues.

But more importantly, verse 20 claims it builds ourselves most holy faith in God.

I definitely desire to have this type of Faith over any other!

• Praying in the Spirit means that the Spirit empowers the prayer and carries it to the Father in the name of Jesus. The prayer has a living quality characterized by warmth and freedom and a sense of exchange.

How to Pray in the Holy Spirit | Desiring God
www.desiringgod.org/articles/how-to-pray-in-the-holy-spirit

 

[biker]

PRAYING IN TONGUES - Praying in the Holy Spirit
www.secretplaceministries.org/.../praying-in-tongues.html
Praying In The Holy Spirit "A believer operating the manifestation of the spirit called tongues will be edified spiritually, spiritually built-up. He can operate this manifestation in two situations: in public and in private. (1) The bulk of a believer's speaking in tongues is in his own private life.

 

[biker]

I am not saying what we see in congregations of these mega churches are examples of those 2 articles I've copied/pasted.

Personally, this should be done 99% in private prayer, not in an open setting unless it is a true Spiritual Warfare.

But like Jude claims, it helps to BUILD Most Holy Faith in God!

 

[biker]

Also, Jude was written literally 17 years after the verse people use from Paul to claim Tongues has ceased. Clearly, that was not what Paul was claiming or Jude, the Brother of Jesus, would not have us pray in this manner.

 

[biker]

can anyone explain the one that "interprets" the message? is the interpreter the only one that understands the message?

Have you ever seen a beggar and tried to ignore them until the Holy Spirit made you feel guilty you went back to give?
And not just give, but when you took your money out, there was a number suddenly in your head in what to give.
This is no different then the Holy Spirit using someone to interpret.

 

[biker]

speaking in tongues is one way of praying and in no way is it mandatory.

we have to ask ourselves, will God kill us if we don't pray in tongues !

Agreed!

It's the same for Discernment. Clearly not every Believer has the Gift of Discernment, but that does not mean they are not saved. Just means God had other Gifts for them.

 

[biker]

The purpose of speaking in tongues is so that 'pastors' of places like Hillsong and C3 can convince you that they're men of faith and that you should give them your money

Funny how God has chosen only certain types of churches for constantly speaking in tongues...

Maybe God has chosen everyone to Speak in Tongues, but men tend to have their own ideas and many times will outrule God.

 

[biker]

So speaking in tongues definitely means speaking in an understandable foreign language? Of my friends who speak in tongues, they have said that it "kind of" sounds like Arabic, and another one Japanese. One of them started speaking in tongues in front of me while driving, I could not understand what she was saying but I do not doubt her sincerity nor am I able to doubt that she has that gift from the Holy Spirit. But I do get the sense from people who speak in tongues that they believe that they are more mature Christians, and that they have a more special relationship with the Holy Spirit.

Also, why are some people able to speak in tongues but others can't? It also does not seem to be given on an individual basis, rather on a group basis (Pentecostal and charismatic). Seems like either the whole church can, or they can't.

I can speak English, Yiddish, Espano, Francais, some Deutsch, and learning Aramaic. But if I ever do Speak in the Gift of Tongues, it relates to none of these human languages I can speak.

 

[jaybird88]

Have you ever seen a beggar and tried to ignore them until the Holy Spirit made you feel guilty you went back to give?
And not just give, but when you took your money out, there was a number suddenly in your head in what to give.
This is no different then the Holy Spirit using someone to interpret.

with respect biker, this is nothing like the spirit leading you. back in the middle ages roman councils launched crusades against villiges full of innocent women and children, the councils claimed they were lead by the spirit and therefore you were not allowed to question their authority. you really think the spirit was sent so it could be used by one person to manipulate another?

 

[biker]

Btw, that we have today the praying in tongue movement is no proof for an working of the Holy Spirit. But this was not the theme of the OP.

For the most part, they are not speaking in the Holy Spirit.

Yes, if you can remove your thoughts from life in general, you can concentrate on the worship songs and truly begin to edify God, you will be in the Spirit. It is here where the true Gift of Tongues exist. < that position is not some babble yabble of seeka my bow tie and let the rubber band fly baloney.

 

[biker]

with respect biker, this is nothing like the spirit leading you. back in the middle ages roman councils launched crusades against villiges full of innocent women and children, the councils claimed they were lead by the spirit and therefore you were not allowed to question their authority. you really think the spirit was sent so it could be used by one person to manipulate another?

NO, when Jesus was headed back to Jerusalem to be crucified, He sent a couple Disciples to get a place to spend the night. They had room but refused saying there was no room. John and James said to Jesus, we know they are lying, lets bring fire down from heaven like Elijah upon them and kill them. Jesus rebuked both and said, I did not come to kill humanity but to save it.

I said that to say this, anyone using the phrase the Holy Spirit told us to kill people is an outright lie from the pits of hell!

 

[jaybird88]

NO, when Jesus was headed back to Jerusalem to be crucified, He sent a couple Disciples to get a place to spend the night. They had room but refused saying there was no room. John and James said to Jesus, we know they are lying, lets bring fire down from heaven like Elijah upon them and kill them. Jesus rebuked both and said, I did not come to kill humanity but to save it.

I said that to say this, anyone using the phrase the Holy Spirit told us to kill people is an outright lie from the pits of hell!

but it doesnt have to be killing people, it could be anything, how would you know they are really getting a message from the heavens and not just making it up as they go?

 

[breno785au]

but it doesnt have to be killing people, it could be anything, how would you know they are really getting a message from the heavens and not just making it up as they go?

By exercising discernment.

 

[biker]

but it doesnt have to be killing people, it could be anything,

If God has given us Christ to dies for our sins that equals "Grace." In return, it does not matter if they are pagan, witches, muslim, atheist, whatever, we are to also extend that Grace to them. When we were sinners and lost, we were in the same position with God as they currently are. So they are no better/worse than us before Christ.

Now, we can refute them, rebuke them, bind them if they try some stupidity upon us.

And if we ever are literally dealing with demonic power or demons, we can cast them out and order them in the Name of Eshu to be gone.

But in no situation are we to ever kill them or their spirit to the point they will be lost for all eternity from God.

 

[biker]

2nd part:
how would you know they are really getting a message from the heavens and not just making it up as they go?


You can feel it.

You know when you walk into an unfamiliar place you can feel it?

When you walk down a dark alley you can sense movement before movement happens?

The same is here if someone is speaking from the Holy Spirit or themselves.