Moses - The Accuser

[ToastAndTea]

Not really intended to be a major topic for discussion but something I read recently in the book of John. In chapter 5 Jesus has just healed the man by the pool of Bethesda. The Pharisees accused Jesus of breaking Sabbath laws and questioned both his testimony and his authority to do such things. Jesus clearly makes himself out to be one with the Father in this chapter. Jesus compares himself with the lesser light, John by showing that his authority is greater because he has come from the Father.

What stood out to me was that Jesus exposed the futility of being obedient to the law without accepting that Jesus was the Messiah. Hence the scripture says:

44How can you believe since you accept glory from one another but do not seek the glory that comes from the only God?

45"But do not think I will accuse you before the Father. Your accuser is Moses, on whom your hopes are set.

46If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me.

47But since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say?"

Without accepting that Jesus was from the Father, the law was all the Pharisees had left. Therefore, they stood accused before the law, because they were incapable of keeping the whole law. Jesus came not to abolish the law, but to fulfill the law.

Something still confuses me, though. What does Jesus mean when he says: "Moses wrote about me". And what does he refer to when he says that the Pharisees did not believe what he wrote? What is it in the law that the Pharisees failed to accept that Moses had written about, related to Christ? I need to understand this passage better.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Not really intended to be a major topic for discussion but something I read recently in the book of John. In chapter 5 Jesus has just healed the man by the pool of Bethesda. The Pharisees accused Jesus of breaking Sabbath laws and questioned both his testimony and his authority to do such things. Jesus clearly makes himself out to be one with the Father in this chapter. Jesus compares himself with the lesser light, John by showing that his authority is greater because he has come from the Father.

What stood out to me was that Jesus exposed the futility of being obedient to the law without accepting that Jesus was the Messiah. Hence the scripture says:

44How can you believe since you accept glory from one another but do not seek the glory that comes from the only God?

45"But do not think I will accuse you before the Father. Your accuser is Moses, on whom your hopes are set.

46If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me.

47But since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say?"

Without accepting that Jesus was from the Father, the law was all the Pharisees had left. Therefore, they stood accused before the law, because they were incapable of keeping the whole law. Jesus came not to abolish the law, but to fulfill the law.

Something still confuses me, though. What does Jesus mean when he says: "Moses wrote about me". And what does he refer to when he says that the Pharisees did not believe what he wrote? What is it in the law that the Pharisees failed to accept that Moses had written about, related to Christ? I need to understand this passage better.

There are 2 laws kept by the Jews. The one is the Torah, the other the Talmud.

I will try to make it practical for you, let us say there was a law in the Torah saying "thou shall not swim". The Jews added to the Torah in the Talmud by saying you can't get within 5 meters of the swimming pool because now you are certain you will not sin. They will put up a fence also just to make sure.

Mat 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
Mat 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

So they say that you should observe Torah by adhering to the Talmud. The Talmud is the heavy burdens they can't keep themselves. So Jesus said keep Torah (written law) but ignore Talmud (spoken law).

Jesus kept the Torah to the last letter, so he fullfilled it and showed us we can live Torah without judging one another. He kept the Sabbath the way it was intended but the Pharisees wanted to apply Talmud practices to it, which is not of God.

To the Jews, the Talmud has a higher authority than the Torah because they say God is not speaking to us at the moment.

Hope it helped you.

God bless

 

[Judges1318]

Something still confuses me, though. What does Jesus mean when he says: "Moses wrote about me". And what does he refer to when he says that the Pharisees did not believe what he wrote? What is it in the law that the Pharisees failed to accept that Moses had written about, related to Christ? I need to understand this passage better.

This?

15The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your fellow Israelites. You must listen to him. 16For this is what you asked of the Lord your God at Horeb on the day of the assembly when you said, “Let us not hear the voice of the Lord our God nor see this great fire anymore, or we will die.”

17The Lord said to me: “What they say is good. 18I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their fellow Israelites, and I will put my words in his mouth. He will tell them everything I command him. 19I myself will call to account anyone who does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name.

Deuteronomy 18:15-19

 

[garee]

Not really intended to be a major topic for discussion but something I read recently in the book of John. In chapter 5 Jesus has just healed the man by the pool of Bethesda. The Pharisees accused Jesus of breaking Sabbath laws and questioned both his testimony and his authority to do such things. Jesus clearly makes himself out to be one with the Father in this chapter. Jesus compares himself with the lesser light, John by showing that his authority is greater because he has come from the Father.

What stood out to me was that Jesus exposed the futility of being obedient to the law without accepting that Jesus was the Messiah. Hence the scripture says:

44How can you believe since you accept glory from one another but do not seek the glory that comes from the only God?

45"But do not think I will accuse you before the Father. Your accuser is Moses, on whom your hopes are set.

46If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me.

47But since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say?"

Without accepting that Jesus was from the Father, the law was all the Pharisees had left. Therefore, they stood accused before the law, because they were incapable of keeping the whole law. Jesus came not to abolish the law, but to fulfill the law.

Something still confuses me, though. What does Jesus mean when he says: "Moses wrote about me". And what does he refer to when he says that the Pharisees did not believe what he wrote? What is it in the law that the Pharisees failed to accept that Moses had written about, related to Christ? I need to understand this passage better.

I would offer or add to #2 which I do agree with.

Moses (meaning to draw out) was used to represent the letter of the law. (death)

One reason Moses was used was to show those not being drawn by the father, they will not enter the propmised land. The Lord hid his body. The letter of the law will not enter the new order.

It would appear that God has assigned "two" to represent "one" in many doctrines. And would include the two witnesses that reveal He has spoken and given us us his unseen understanding .

The law and the prophets or the law with the prophets. Moses and Elias. (sola scriptura )

Moses letter, death . Prophets the unseen Power, law of faith life. Death and life working . In the way it worked with the 3 day demonstration of the Son, Jesus and the unseen Father (the gospel of peace.)

2 Corinthians 4:12 So then death worketh in us, but life in you.

Two laws, one not seen (law of faith) working with death to create one perfect law . The just and justifier.

The perfect law(all things written in the law and the prophets simply makes the Talmud (spoken law) without effect. .

The faithless Pharisees through the Talmud shot themselves in the foot to show they were not walking by faith . Calling God's word the heresy making their law the law of serpents, the slithers'. no understanding. Jesus called them a brood of faithless vipers .

Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me. But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: Acts 24: 13-14

Again they proved to be faithless (no faith, none zip) Rather than worshiping the God of the fathers they worshiped a legion of fathers corrupted mankind as if the legion was our father in heaven (Catholiscim) . No faith needed .Out of sight out of mind the foundation of paganism .

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Not really intended to be a major topic for discussion but something I read recently in the book of John. In chapter 5 Jesus has just healed the man by the pool of Bethesda. The Pharisees accused Jesus of breaking Sabbath laws and questioned both his testimony and his authority to do such things. Jesus clearly makes himself out to be one with the Father in this chapter. Jesus compares himself with the lesser light, John by showing that his authority is greater because he has come from the Father.

What stood out to me was that Jesus exposed the futility of being obedient to the law without accepting that Jesus was the Messiah. Hence the scripture says:

44How can you believe since you accept glory from one another but do not seek the glory that comes from the only God?

45"But do not think I will accuse you before the Father. Your accuser is Moses, on whom your hopes are set.

46If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me.

47But since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say?"

Without accepting that Jesus was from the Father, the law was all the Pharisees had left. Therefore, they stood accused before the law, because they were incapable of keeping the whole law. Jesus came not to abolish the law, but to fulfill the law.

Something still confuses me, though. What does Jesus mean when he says: "Moses wrote about me". And what does he refer to when he says that the Pharisees did not believe what he wrote? What is it in the law that the Pharisees failed to accept that Moses had written about, related to Christ? I need to understand this passage better.

The whole OT is pointing toward Christ. The word "the law" can be used to specifically relate to the Mosaic Laws, or it could be referring to the entire OT revelation.

In the sense that the OT law pointed toward Christ, the ritualistic sacrifices and many other elements pointed toward Christ in "shadows and types". The Pharisees knew the Law in some sense, but they couldn't recognize that Jesus was it's fulfillment, or archetype.

The Law does stand as an accuser, because no one has perfectly fulfilled it. At the same time it does contain moral principles that are applicable to believers, when the cultural and time-specific items are considered. Obedience to the Law is not the means for justification, but obedience to the moral principles would be indicative that the person has been united with Christ, and his resurrection-life is producing fruit through them (Romans 6:1-14).

You might want to listen to this sermon series by Brian Borgman. He's a good teacher:

https://www.sermonaudio.com/search....series&subsetitem=Christ+in+the+Old+Testament


There is also a book by Edmund Clowney, The Unfolding Mystery: Christ in the Old Testament, on this topic:

https://smile.amazon.com/Unfolding-...keywords=edmund+clowney&qid=1590842507&sr=8-1

By the way, there are certain elements within evangelical Christianity which do not agree with the fact that all of the Old Testament looks forward to Christ, and that the biblical revelation grows up like an acorn into a tree into him. Dispensationalism, in particular, seems to hate this view, as their focus is on Israel. They also don't like others to reason typologically, so this sort of thinking is strongly discouraged or hindered in their camp.

Instead of seeing the organic nature of Scripture, they tend to break Scripture off into dispensations, and claim that this is "rightly dividing the word of God".

Luke 24:13-27 13 That very day two of them were going to a village named Emmaus, about seven miles from Jerusalem, 14 and they were talking with each other about all these things that had happened. 15 While they were talking and discussing together, Jesus himself drew near and went with them. 16 But their eyes were kept from recognizing him. 17 And he said to them, “What is this conversation that you are holding with each other as you walk?” And they stood still, looking sad. 18 Then one of them, named Cleopas, answered him, “Are you the only visitor to Jerusalem who does not know the things that have happened there in these days?” 19 And he said to them, “What things?” And they said to him, “Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, a man who was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people, 20 and how our chief priests and rulers delivered him up to be condemned to death, and crucified him. 21 But we had hoped that he was the one to redeem Israel. Yes, and besides all this, it is now the third day since these things happened. 22 Moreover, some women of our company amazed us. They were at the tomb early in the morning, 23 and when they did not find his body, they came back saying that they had even seen a vision of angels, who said that he was alive. 24 Some of those who were with us went to the tomb and found it just as the women had said, but him they did not see.” 25 And he said to them, “O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Was it not necessary that the Christ should suffer these things and enter into his glory?” 27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself.

 

[Adstar]

Not really intended to be a major topic for discussion but something I read recently in the book of John. In chapter 5 Jesus has just healed the man by the pool of Bethesda. The Pharisees accused Jesus of breaking Sabbath laws and questioned both his testimony and his authority to do such things. Jesus clearly makes himself out to be one with the Father in this chapter. Jesus compares himself with the lesser light, John by showing that his authority is greater because he has come from the Father.

What stood out to me was that Jesus exposed the futility of being obedient to the law without accepting that Jesus was the Messiah. Hence the scripture says:

44How can you believe since you accept glory from one another but do not seek the glory that comes from the only God?

45"But do not think I will accuse you before the Father. Your accuser is Moses, on whom your hopes are set.

46If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me.

47But since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say?"

Without accepting that Jesus was from the Father, the law was all the Pharisees had left. Therefore, they stood accused before the law, because they were incapable of keeping the whole law. Jesus came not to abolish the law, but to fulfill the law.

Something still confuses me, though. What does Jesus mean when he says: "Moses wrote about me". And what does he refer to when he says that the Pharisees did not believe what he wrote? What is it in the law that the Pharisees failed to accept that Moses had written about, related to Christ? I need to understand this passage better.

Moses wrote about the LORD.. Jesus and His Father are One.. Jesus is LORD..

1 Corinthians 10: KJV
1 "Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; {2} And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; {3} And did all eat the same spiritual meat; {4} And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ."

 

[garee]

The Law does stand as an accuser, because no one has perfectly fulfilled it. At the same time it does contain moral principles that are applicable to believers, when the cultural and time-specific items are considered. Obedience to the Law is not the means for justification, but obedience to the moral principles would be indicative that the person has been united with Christ, and his resurrection-life is producing fruit through them (Romans 6:1-14).

I would disagree with that portion . Moses is used to represent the letter of the law death (the accuser) .That law was executed in Genesis, Death passed on to all men .

The continuing wrath is being revealed from heaven daily. Corruption doing it work of death. The whole creation sufferings the pang of hell.

Those in Christ yoked with him can find rest as His Spirit works in them to both will and perform His good purpose. .

The perfect law is made up of two laws. The letter the just, and the law of faith (unseen eternal) the justifier .A picture of the father (Just)and the Son (Justifier). The law and or with the prophets. like the prophet, apostle Jesus .He came in the power of the Spirit to do the will of the father and not the will of his own flesh which he says profits for zero .

The gospel power not of us given to us but of the Holy Spirit, our teacher, comforter and guide. Who also bring to our minds the things he has taught us.

Romans 3:25-27 King James Version (KJV) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

The perfect working law .

Obedience to the moral principles would be indicative that the person has been obedience to the Law of faith without faith the justifier. . . the letter has no life .

One perfect law made from two. The two did become one.

 

[miknik5]

The testimony of JESUS is the SPIRIT of prophecy...everything written in the WORD spoke of JESUS

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Moses wrote about the LORD.. Jesus and His Father are One.. Jesus is LORD..

1 Corinthians 10: KJV
1 "Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; {2} And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; {3} And did all eat the same spiritual meat; {4} And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ."

Jesus is indeed YHVH but he is not the Father. This would be a false doctrine.

Maybe you aren't claiming that, though.

God is a multi-personal Being. He is Triune.

There is one God yet three Persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Each are co-essential and co-eternal.

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit share the same essence. The three Persons mutually indwell one another.

There is no other way that Scripture can be validly interpreted.

But, the Law, which is a term describing not only the Mosaic Law, but can refer to the first five books or the entire OT, or all of God's instructions, points toward Jesus in some way as it's fulfillment. There are tons of shadows and types of Jesus in the OT. Jesus is the fulfillment (teleos) of the passover lamb, for example. This is only the simplest one to see.

 

[Prycejosh1987]

Something still confuses me, though. What does Jesus mean when he says: "Moses wrote about me". And what does he refer to when he says that the Pharisees did not believe what he wrote? What is it in the law that the Pharisees failed to accept that Moses had written about, related to Christ? I need to understand this passage better.

I am glad you are asking the question, I believe Jesus is saying there are parallels between him and Moses writings. Jesus is known as the word and it is all based on him. I do know that Jesus says before Abraham was born, i am. This alone could indicate that Jesus was the God that revealed himself to Moses in the torah. I personally never have fully understood what this means, because i always thought the father was the I AM, and not Jesus. Moses must have prophesied about the messiah, himself.