The Purpose of Speaking in Tongues

[wolfwint]

No, you have not refuted ANYTHING really. Only in your own mind. Again your pride has you thinking that the gifts of the Holy Spirit were started in 1904 at Azuza street. WRONG! it was started in the Book of Acts chapter 2. And taught by Paul in 1Corinthians chapters 12-14. KNOWN as the GIfts of the Holy Spirit. The Bible is not a Perfect The word of God is.

And actually, I do like you, I do not like your scoffing and mocking and lambasting of those who disagree with and you have a very bad habit of doing. And you have not been banned. it is not personal you make it that way. Maybe you should go back AND look at your comments when someone speaks about their experience with the Gifts of the Holy Spirit.

You can not argue away the context of 1cor Chapter 12-14 in context to the Gifts of the Holy Spirit being for today.

NIMROD has nothing to do with the Gifts of the Holy Spirit You have been shown that in the word of God repeatedly. Yet you try to interject that false context. Peter Reifrimed Joel 2. You were shown that Biblically. YOU do not accept that.

Highjack this thread me? You did that. And Jesus said "you will receive power after the Holy Spirit has come upon you" Acts 1:8
Mark 16 Jesus said They would speak in tongues.

Hey gut the thread is
"The Purpose of Speaking in Tongues"


You are displaying behavior that is not to the glory of God. You are not speaking sound doctrine nor are you defending it.

You have not shown in the word of God where it says " The gifts of the Holy Spirit are not for today."

You have not shown in the Word of God where the gifts of the Holy Spirit have ceased.

You have taken out of context 1cor 13:8-10 to suggest the Bible is that which has come so the Gifts of the Holy Spirit are no longer needed. That is untruth nor it that Biblical.

You have lied and a very prideful person. Rember you have said you have never been corrected in the word of God.

Well, Azusa has nothing to do with acts 2.
This Kind of teaching which we find since azusa, I cant taught in the bible. And also was not taught in Church history out of cults.
You could give till today no proof from the Letters to the Christians, what we find taught since azusa.
Even Paul, a defender of the speaking in tongues is teaching that not all getting the gift of speaking in tongues. But this you must have according azusa theologie to be Baptist with the Holy Spirit. Also Paul compares tjis gift with the gift of prophecie and gave speaking in tongues the minor importance.
But today this seems to be most important gift for an believer.
Oh I forgot, I suppose i am on your ignore list and you will not read it.

 

[KelbyofGod]

Yes it is loving to tell the truth.

You have been attacking those who hold the gifts of the Holy Spirit for years now name calling and mocking and scoffing as you have done yet again on this thread. In fact many have exposed it many times. 1Cor chapter 12 through 14 is not a vague claim about the gifts of the Holy Spirit they are unit chapters that are in-depth on the use of them in the church setting. WE all have said many time the foolishness and abuse of them is well noted, as is the abuse of the pulpit. The word of God fully explains the gifts of the Holy Spirit and why they are for today. I am not mad you assume I am . Remember it was you who said, you were never corrected in the word of God. The only thing that matters, is not your position but what is truth.


You are the one who looks at 1cor 13: 8-10 and say the Gifts of the Holy Spirit are done away with. YET you can't show NO where in the Bible where it states that assumption " The gifts of the Holy Spirit are not for today."

NO where is that said.

Jesus didn't not say it, Peter did not say it, and Paul did not say it. You think that the creating of the KJV Bible is that which is perfect that has come so the Gifts are not needed. Yet you can't prove that you use some kind of allegorizing of the Old Testament, then when you are called on it Everyone is not spiritual enough to grasp it. LOL hahahaha . Wrong ! You have no Biblical support for that assumption. And that angers you because you think of yourself as a teacher of the word of God, and you are not.
You are prideful and insulting you search for new believers and attack them when they say anything or ask anything about this topic. I have just yet again called you on it. And I have much proof of you doing so. So please stop lying and I will place you m on ignore again.

God bless

If the words that ended up in the bible are the "That which is perfect" which was needing to come...and they fulfilled that role the very moment they were spoken or written into existence... then there was ZERO need for some group of men 300 years later to say "Hey, I don't think that what God has provided is good enough. I think we need to create a book so people don't have to ASK God to teach them how to discern truth for themselves. They won't need to go to God. They can just go to our book! They won't need to ask God to lead them. They can rely solely on our book! They won't have to actually hear God and let the Holy Ghost lead them and guide them into all truth...they can just limit the scope of their answers to those things we've allowed into our book! Then the king (not God) that appointed us will be pleased."


Also @notuptome


Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[garee]

can anyone explain the one that "interprets" the message? is the interpreter the only one that understands the message?

Yes tongue as prophecy of God is God's interpretation.

 

[notuptome]

If the words that ended up in the bible are the "That which is perfect" which was needing to come...and they fulfilled that role the very moment they were spoken or written into existence... then there was ZERO need for some group of men 300 years later to say "Hey, I don't think that what God has provided is good enough. I think we need to create a book so people don't have to ASK God to teach them how to discern truth for themselves. They won't need to go to God. They can just go to our book! They won't need to ask God to lead them. They can rely solely on our book! They won't have to actually hear God and let the Holy Ghost lead them and guide them into all truth...they can just limit the scope of their answers to those things we've allowed into our book! Then the king (not God) that appointed us will be pleased."


Also @notuptome


Love in Jesus,
Kelby

If that is all the value you place on the bible then I wonder how you claim the promises Christ made regarding eternal life.

The Holy Spirit guides into all the truth through the word of God. If you read and study the passage you would see that it is clear that the Holy Spirit teaches that which the Father has spoken. God values His word above all things. His word will endure even though heaven and earth pass away. God formed the world by His word.

You lack a proper foundation. As scripture advises you should ask these questions at home.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[garee]

Because I'm not wishing you, "Good faith." I'm telling you that I don't think you'll find any real person who actually believes and practices what you claim.

You won't find one, because your understanding of 1 Corinthians 14:4 is faulty. I have explained the matter to you repeatedly.

You're mixing up unrelated issues. It's little wonder most people don't bother reading your posts.

More repeated errors.

LOl More repeated errors?

You're not mixing Christ's faith the substance of the gospel in what you hear. ( Hebrews 4 )

No such thing a "sign gift" Look I did it!!!!!..

Remember spiritual gifts are non-viewable. Signs as metaphor follow after one receives the unseen gift. . With their new born again tongues as prophecy , the gospel, it cast out the lies and is not affected by the poison of the oral traditions of men, as a law of men . .

The perfect law of faith . Not the self-edifying law (look I did the work )

Mark 16:17-18 King James Version (KJV)17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, "it" shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Spiritual gifts not seen work form inside as he works with us to both will and perform His good pleasure . The idea of make a noise and find someone to tell a person what they desire to hear (well done fall backward.) It is not a biblical foundation but is faithless.

When a person literalizes the signified tongue of God. Then unrelated issue become new innovations as oral traditions of men. Childs play.

The problem is men make the foundation of doctrine the law of Prophecy called tongues found in Isaiah 28. . . "disappear" as if the law in verse 22 of 1 Corinthians 14 was not the same law found in the old testament .

You have offered a explanation of those who for some odd reason love the works of self-edification, wonderments . . . . look I did it I made a noise without meaning and fell backward . This is of course after checking if someone there interpreted the noise properly and moved behind "got ye back. . . OK fall. Making sure 911 does not become part of the show or ceremony. Many injuries' have occurred to show the persons noise they was not trusting some died of poisonings other broken limbs or concussion and needed more work of self edification.

Simply no biblical doctrine called "self-edify" rather than walking by faith .The unseen eternal

I questioned the doctrine of "self-edification" (Look I did it) when it was presented by you the first time . And the was the end of the matter.

The doctrine of the tongues . God mocking those who mock with stammering lips His word as the prophecy of God.it has its foundation in Isaiah 28. It would seem you keep missing that opportunity along with other that seek as signs what they call "sign gifts". Something the Bible does not teach ..but rather dhows us it is a wile of the devil as a opportunity to show off his signs as "lying wonders" wonderment marveling not believing the prophecy.

Isaiah 28 11-12 So God will use this strange way of talking, and he will use other languages to speak to these people.
In the past he spoke to them and said, “Here is a resting place. Let those who are tired come and rest. This is the place of peace.” But they would not listen to him. So the Lord’s words will be senseless sounds to them:“Saw lasaw saw lasaw.Qaw laqaw qaw laqaw.Ze’er sham ze’er sham.”When the people try to walk, they will fall backwards. They will be defeated, trapped, and captured.

They still mock the "spirit of judgement" with the oral traditions of men. The sign is still doing its work of moving some with their "new tongue" to bring the gospel to them.

As I have suggested. Once the law ( found in Isaiah 28 and revisited in 1 Corinthians 14 ) is understood the rest of the doctrine no "sign gifts" falls into place .

 

[garee]

Only the concept of modern tongues-speech - started out as being understood as xenoglossy, but when the ensuing missionary work soon proved an epic fail with respect to "tongues", the doctrine started to be redefined (and was subsequently completely redefined between 1906 and 1907) as 'prayer language'.

It could be called that. Its the prayer language or tongue of prophecy.

We have many examples of that working . Psalm's has a legion of prayers inspired by God . God moving men (prophets as apostle) bringing, the tongue or words of God. Teaching us how to hear him not seen.

 

[Kavik]

Psalm's has a legion of prayers inspired by God

Yes, and they're all written and recited in a real, rational language.

 

[Kavik]

can anyone explain the one that "interprets" the message? is the interpreter the only one that understands the message?

It is very likely that Paul was drawing off of the Jewish religious custom and tradition (earliest “documentation” of this tradition may be found in Nehemiah 8 concerning ‘Ezra the Scribe’), whereby it was customary to have any readings, prayers, instruction, etc. given first in the Hebrew language, despite the fact virtually no one listening understood it. As soon as a few phrases were uttered, a reader standing next to the teacher would translate what was being said into the vernacular. This custom was carried to the early Christian church.

Maimonides, a renown 12th century Rabbi, scholar, and physician (considered one of the most influential and revered Jewish thinkers in the Middle Ages) also commented on this tradition. One if his comments is:

“From the time of Ezra, it was customary that a translator would translate to the people the [passages] read by the reader from the Torah, so that they would understand the subject matter. The office of the interpreter in Jewish liturgy.”

The Aramaic word for interpreter in the Talmud Megillah and commentaries associated with it is מתרגם meturgem in the singular and מתרגמין meturgemin in the plural. The plural is used more often.

In English this office is called the “meturgeman”. The interpreter had twofold usage as described by a Torah website:

"There were two types of Merturgemans (translators/interpreters). The first is the kind who stood by the Torah reader in the synagogue and translated into Aramaic as the reader read, verse by verse. It is mentioned dozens of times in the Talmud; once the Jews were exiled to Babylon, their vernacular was Aramaic – only the scholars and elders spoke or understood Hebrew. Thus, to make Torah reading understandable, it was translated.

In the same way, the Meturgeman would also sit by the Rabbi in the synagogue or the study hall. When the Rabbi would share words of Torah with the congregation or with his students, he would speak quietly in Hebrew and the translator would repeat his words in Aramaic."

Translating from one language to another, particularly the nuances of religious text and subject matter is no easy task. Indeed, Paul it’s very likely this concept is what Paul meant when he refers to the ‘gift of interpretation’.

The interpreter may not be the only individual in a given situation who knows the language of the speaker, but he’s typically the only one who has the ability to accurately translate what’s being said into the vernacular.

The point is in the first century Jewish world, religious service, readings, teaching, etc. particularly when done from a Temple (and especially from the Temple in Jerusalem), by historic custom and tradition were to be done *first* in Hebrew, then followed by translations into the vernacular – in short, Hebrew was the _expected language to be heard first_ . The apostles at Pentecost completely did away with this tradition and just began to speak to the crowd in the vernacular, dispensing with Hebrew altogether.

 

[garee]

It is very likely that Paul was drawing off of the Jewish religious custom and tradition (earliest “documentation” of this tradition may be found in Nehemiah 8 concerning ‘Ezra the Scribe’), whereby it was customary to have any readings, prayers, instruction, etc. given first in the Hebrew language, despite the fact virtually no one listening understood it. As soon as a few phrases were uttered, a reader standing next to the teacher would translate what was being said into the vernacular. This custom was carried to the early Christian church.

One thing I would ask is how would that relate the the doctrine of tongues as to its foundation Isaiah 28 ? .I don't think that was custom of the early church .

It seem be another kind or oral tradition . One that Rome uses with the dead language Latin in hope there is some hidden power from different tongues.

 

[KelbyofGod]

If that is all the value you place on the bible then I wonder how you claim the promises Christ made regarding eternal life.

The Holy Spirit guides into all the truth through the word of God. If you read and study the passage you would see that it is clear that the Holy Spirit teaches that which the Father has spoken. God values His word above all things. His word will endure even though heaven and earth pass away. God formed the world by His word.

You lack a proper foundation. As scripture advises you should ask these questions at home.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Let me clarify... What I'd just said is not a lessening of the actual value of the bible. It simply proves that the bible can't be the "that which is perfect" mentioned in 1 Corinthians 13:10. Because, if the last words of Revelation were the last words needed to complete "that which is perfect", then "the bible" was NOT a necessary component of perfection because for 300 YEARS after Revelation was written there were ZERO BIBLES.

I will be praying for you because I know it could be difficult to adjust to that reality and I am for you, not against you.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[Dino246]

You're not mixing Christ's faith the substance of the gospel in what you hear. ( Hebrews 4 )

Garbage. One does not mix faith with error and get truth.

No such thing a "sign gift" Look I did it!!!!!..

Fallacy: straw man.

Remember spiritual gifts are non-viewable.

Where is that in Scripture?

Signs as metaphor follow after one receives the unseen gift.

Where is that in Scripture?

You have offered a explanation of those who for some odd reason love the works of self-edification, wonderments .

Where. Quote me.

I questioned the doctrine of "self-edification" (Look I did it) when it was presented by you the first time . And the was the end of the matter.

You don't understand what I wrote, you don't understand the relevant Scripture, and you refuse to learn.

Do not claim that I said something unless you quote my exact words. I'm tired of your silly corruptions of my words.

 

[garee]

Translating from one language to another, particularly the nuances of religious text and subject matter is no easy task. Indeed, Paul it’s very likely this concept is what Paul meant when he refers to the ‘gift of interpretation’.

We must be careful how we hear or say we hear.

The gift of interpretation is the hearing of faith. God working in us to both will and empower us to do his pleasure giving us his understanding. ears to hear what the Spirit says to the believers.

We do not know him after the oral or private interpretations of men like us as the witness of corrupted mankind the witness of God the scriptures' as it is written the greater Master.


John 5:36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

His body as living parable to reveal the will of the father. Not what the witness of faithless men say .


1 John 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

 

[Dino246]

The gift of interpretation is the hearing of faith.

So those who hear with faith can understand foreign languages?

The gift of interpretation of tongues is the subject here. The Holy Spirit gives this gift as He wills, enabling the recipient to understand the meaning (translation) of the message delivered in tongues.

 

[CS1]

If that is all the value you place on the bible then I wonder how you claim the promises Christ made regarding eternal life.

The Holy Spirit guides into all the truth through the word of God. If you read and study the passage you would see that it is clear that the Holy Spirit teaches that which the Father has spoken. God values His word above all things. His word will endure even though heaven and earth pass away. God formed the world by His word.

You lack a proper foundation. As scripture advises you should ask these questions at home.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

more senseless attacks or once character. The Holy Spirit Never stopped do this. Jesus said the Holy Spirit will be with you and IN YOU John 14:17.

God or does endure yet even if there was no Bible HIS word would Continue. This why you are unlearned. And prideful.

 

[garee]

Garbage. One does not mix faith with error and get truth.


Fallacy: straw man.


Where is that in Scripture?


Where is that in Scripture?


Where. Quote me.


You don't understand what I wrote, you don't understand the relevant Scripture, and you refuse to learn.

Do not claim that I said something unless you quote my exact words. I'm tired of your silly corruptions of my words.

I won't give up on you. Need a break?

I know what you wrote it supported self-edification a faithless pagan foundation

Have you looked at Isaiah 28 or is that foundation made to no effect by those who fall backward mocking the spirit of judgement? And yet for all that they are still falling backward . Just like the foundation of faith was destroyed in Genesis .Mankind hearing the voice of another kind of tradition standing right in front Sssssserpent . No faith needed.

The false gospel. You shall surely not die .

Psalm 11:3 If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do?

1 Corinthians 14:4 Those who speak in a different language are helping only themselves. But those who prophesy are helping the whole church.

If Jesus is doing the work of the father within and not after his own flesh why would we boast as if he was not.

James 4:16 King James Version (KJV) For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that. But now ye rejoice in your boastings: all such rejoicing is evil.

 

[Dino246]

I know what you wrote it supported self-edification a faithless pagan foundation

Prove your claim with actual quotations. Failure to do so will prove that you are a liar.

 

[garee]

So those who hear with faith can understand foreign languages?

The gift of interpretation of tongues is the subject here. The Holy Spirit gives this gift as He wills, enabling the recipient to understand the meaning (translation) of the message delivered in tongues.

Yes delivered as prophecy, tongues "the gospel" heard in all the languages of the world .

We hear God as he reveals His understanding to us, (Hearing of faith) . It worked in the foolish Galatians Chapter 3 they acted in unbelief (no god in the heart). it empowered them to belleive and informed them its the same power by which they could to the last day

Was not the gospel foreign to you before you heard it and freely he gave you the faith to believe. . . that it came from Him not seen .The eternal One?

That labor of his love that first worked in us is called our "first love". The comforting love we return to when he calls us back or repents us, Should we edify our own selves for the work he performs in us . Or the power that yokes us as two brothers walking together in agreement to one heavenly Father. the Good Master.. ?

 

[garee]

Prove your claim with actual quotations. Failure to do so will prove that you are a liar.

If you are studying by yourself, or praying by yourself, or reading Scripture by yourself, are you edifying yourself? Yes. Is that "self-edification" in the negative sense? No. You are assuming incorrectly that the sense is negative in 1 Cor. 14:4, but you have no evidence for that outside of your pre-existing belief.

By yourself, by yourself, by yourself, edifying yourself .

Is making a noise falling backwards mocking the spirit of judgement in a positive sense?

I would think it would be easy to prove its in a negative sense. Just look to the law in 1 Corinthians 14 :22 23. It reveals whether it is negative (no faith} or positive (faith). Likes attract "faith to faith". Un likes repel "faith to no faith". or out of sight out of mind to the same (no faith)

If you are studying to show one approved according to the loving commandment. Whose spirit prompted you and promises to guide and teach and last but not least bring the things he has taught???? Surely not the pagan foundation of the un holy three (Me Myself and I)

No faith needed when a person has wonderments .(look what I did ) The name it and claim gospel .

 

[Kavik]

One thing I would ask is how would that relate the the doctrine of tongues as to its foundation Isaiah 28 ?

Isaiah 28 has nothing to do with modern tongues-speech. It’s stating that God would bring His truth to the attention of His people through a different language, i.e. a language other than Hebrew.

This is echoed in Acts when the sacerdotal language of Hebrew that the crowd should have heard first (then translations into the vernacular) was done away with and the apostles addressed the crowds first (and only in) Aramaic and Greek; the mother tongue of the attendees.

The point is that the message is inspired by God, irrespective of which language the message is translated into. The subject matter of this verse in Isaiah is still "God teaching" His people and speaking to them (whether they actually listen to him or not). No modern tongues-speech here; just real, rational language being referred to.

 

[Dino246]

Yes delivered as prophecy, tongues "the gospel" heard in all the languages of the world .

We hear God as he reveals His understanding to us, (Hearing of faith) . It worked in the foolish Galatians Chapter 3 they acted in unbelief (no god in the heart). it empowered them to belleive and informed them its the same power by which they could to the last day

Was not the gospel foreign to you before you heard it and freely he gave you the faith to believe. . . that it came from Him not seen .The eternal One?

That labor of his love that first worked in us is called our "first love". The comforting love we return to when he calls us back or repents us, Should we edify our own selves for the work he performs in us . Or the power that yokes us as two brothers walking together in agreement to one heavenly Father. the Good Master.. ?

No. You don't understand the gift of tongues or interpretation of tongues. You're completely confused on both.