Was Jesus Really Killed?

[RevelationMan]

I have to wonder "was Jesus really killed or not". Did anyone take his life? It is commonly taught that the Romans and Jews killed Jesus but is that really what happened?

I think there is good evidence to say that he was not killed but rather he gave up or laid down his own life on his own free will and nobody took it from him. We see in John 10:18..."The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life--only to take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father". So we see that he never actually was killed. He gave up his life by his own free will.

I'm reminded of the humility required not to come down from the cross at any time and crush them when he had the power to do so.

What are your thoughts?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Well, Peter said this, in Acts 3 -

"14 But you denied the Holy and Righteous One and requested a murderer to be granted to you. 15 And you killed [G615 - apekteinate / apokteinó or apoktennó ] the Author of life, whom God has raised up out from the dead, whereof we are witnesses."



G615 - apekteinate / apokteinó or apoktennó -

"Definition: to kill
Usage: I put to death, kill; fig: I abolish."




Do you believe Peter was mistaken, here ^ ?

RM: So we see that he never actually was killed.

 

[RevelationMan]

Well, Peter said this, in Acts 3 -

"14 But you denied the Holy and Righteous One and requested a murderer to be granted to you. 15 And you killed [G615] the Author of life, whom God has raised up out from the dead, whereof we are witnesses."

G615 -

"Definition: to kill
Usage: I put to death, kill; fig: I abolish."

Peter could have said it is that "And you ordered the killing of the author of life" and not changed any meaning of the passage because in their minds there was no difference between ordering him killed and actually pulling the trigger.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

I have to wonder "was Jesus really killed or not". Did anyone take his life? It is commonly taught that the Romans and Jews killed Jesus but is that really what happened?

I think there is good evidence to say that he was not killed but rather he gave up or laid down his own life on his own free will and nobody took it from him. We see in John 10:18..."The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life--only to take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father". So we see that he never actually was killed. He gave up his life by his own free will.

I'm reminded of the humility required not to come down from the cross at any time and crush them when he had the power to do so.

What are your thoughts?

This may not fit exactly but is suicide by cop still being killed by someone else even if you put yourself in that situation?

 

[RevelationMan]

This may not fit exactly but is suicide by cop still being killed by someone else even if you put yourself in that situation?

not sure what you mean...please explain

 

[Magenta]

Jesus said, “Listen to another parable: There was a landowner who planted a vineyard. He put a wall around it, dug a winepress in it and built a watchtower. Then he rented the vineyard to some farmers and moved to another place. When the harvest time approached, he sent his servants to the tenants to collect his fruit.

“The tenants seized his servants; they beat one, killed another, and stoned a third. Then he sent other servants to them, more than the first time, and the tenants treated them the same way. Last of all, he sent his son to them. ‘They will respect my son,’ he said.

“But when the tenants saw the son, they said to each other, ‘This is the heir. Come, let’s kill him and take his inheritance.’ So they took him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him." Matthew 21:33-39

* * * * * * * * * * *

"Do you refuse to speak to me?" Pilate said. "Don't you realize I have power either to free you or to crucify you?" Jesus answered, "You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above. Therefore the one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin."
John 19:10-11

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Peter could have said it is that "And you ordered the killing of the author of life" and not changed any meaning of the passage because in their minds there was no difference between ordering him killed and actually pulling the trigger.

Okay, so what do you make of this one (or two):

"Him delivered up by the determinate plan and foreknowledge of God, you put to death, having crucified Him by lawless hands" Acts 2:23

"and that our chief priests and rulers delivered Him up to the judgment of death [this would fit somewhat with what you'd said], and they crucified Him" Lk24:20

[what does "crucified" Him mean? - ...from BibleHub - "crucify. From stauros; to impale on the cross; figuratively, to extinguish (subdue) passion or selfishness -- crucify."]


And then, what about John 19:10-11 -

"10 Therefore Pilate says to Him, “Do You not speak to me? Do You not know that I have authority to release You, and I have authority to crucify You?”
11 Jesus answered him, “You would have no authority over Me, if it were not given to you from above. Because of this, the one having delivered Me up to you has greater sin.”

So, was it "given to [them/him] from above"? or no? And does "crucify" have a correlating idea of being killed, or just the pronouncement of judgment upon...? Just wondering. = )



ETA: I see Magenta beat me to the John 19:10-11 passage (I was still typing, lol... I'm a very slow typist! )

 

[RevelationMan]

Jesus said, “Listen to another parable: There was a landowner who planted a vineyard. He put a wall around it, dug a winepress in it and built a watchtower. Then he rented the vineyard to some farmers and moved to another place. When the harvest time approached, he sent his servants to the tenants to collect his fruit.

“The tenants seized his servants; they beat one, killed another, and stoned a third. Then he sent other servants to them, more than the first time, and the tenants treated them the same way. Last of all, he sent his son to them. ‘They will respect my son,’ he said.

“But when the tenants saw the son, they said to each other, ‘This is the heir. Come, let’s kill him and take his inheritance.’ So they took him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him." Matthew 21:33-39

* * * * * * * * * * *

"Do you refuse to speak to me?" Pilate said. "Don't you realize I have power either to free you or to crucify you?" Jesus answered, "You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above. Therefore the one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin."
John 19:10-11

It does appear by this passage and other passages that he was killed but my point is they saw no difference in ordering or sentencing him to be killed and actually pulling the trigger. My claim is that they did everything they could to actually pull the trigger but Jesus actually pulled his own trigger by giving up his life. And we see that he gave up his life after he said "it is finished".

 

[RevelationMan]

Okay, so what do you make of this one (or two):

"Him delivered up by the determinate plan and foreknowledge of God, you put to death, having crucified Him by lawless hands" Acts 2:23

"and that our chief priests and rulers delivered Him up to the judgment of death [this would fit somewhat with what you'd said], and they crucified Him" Lk24:20

[what does "crucified" Him mean? - ...from BibleHub - "crucify. From stauros; to impale on the cross; figuratively, to extinguish (subdue) passion or selfishness -- crucify."]


And then, what about John 19:10-11 -

"10 Therefore Pilate says to Him, “Do You not speak to me? Do You not know that I have authority to release You, and I have authority to crucify You?”
11 Jesus answered him, “You would have no authority over Me, if it were not given to you from above. Because of this, the one having delivered Me up to you has greater sin.”

So, was it "given to [them/him] from above"? or no? And does "crucify" have a correlating idea of being killed, or just the pronouncement of judgment upon...? Just wondering. = )



ETA: I see Magenta beat me to the John 19:10-11 passage (I was still typing, lol... I'm a very slow typist! )

It does appear by this passage and other passages that he was killed but my point is they saw no difference in ordering or sentencing him to be killed and actually pulling the trigger. My claim is that they did everything they could to actually pull the trigger but Jesus actually pulled his own trigger by giving up his life. And we see that he gave up his life after he said "it is finished".

 

[Magenta]

It does appear by this passage and other passages that he was killed but my point is they saw no difference in ordering or sentencing him to be killed and actually pulling the trigger. My claim is that they did everything they could to actually pull the trigger but Jesus actually pulled his own trigger by giving up his life. And we see that he gave up his life after he said "it is finished".

"Now my soul is troubled, and what shall I say? 'Father, save me from this hour'?
No, it was for this very reason I came to this hour." John 12:27

The purpose of Jesus' incarnation was to give His life as a ransom for many, but that does not remove the responsibility of those who put Him to death... and in fact, we are all responsible, though ultimately, God has taken responsibility for it.

This man was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you,
with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross. Acts 2:23

 

[Magenta]

From Isaiah 53

 

[breno785au]

He handed His life over AND was killed.

This is how I understand it.

 

[EternalFire]

Hebrews 5:7-9 (NIV)

During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. Son though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him.

 

[RevelationMan]

He handed His life over AND was killed.

This is how I understand it.

In John 19:30 we see that Jesus actually gave up his own spirit nobody took it from him.

When he had received the drink, Jesus said, “It is finished.” With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

 

[breno785au]

In John 19:30 we see that Jesus actually gave up his own spirit nobody took it from him.

When he had received the drink, Jesus said, “It is finished.” With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

I thought we were talking purely about the physical act of His killing, the enactment of it?

 

[RevelationMan]

I thought we were talking purely about the physical act of His killing, the enactment of it?

Jesus pulled his own trigger...nobody actually pulled the trigger...they just did everything they could to kill him but did not accomplish it.

 

[Ahwatukee]

I have to wonder "was Jesus really killed or not". Did anyone take his life? It is commonly taught that the Romans and Jews killed Jesus but is that really what happened?

I think there is good evidence to say that he was not killed but rather he gave up or laid down his own life on his own free will and nobody took it from him. We see in John 10:18..."The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life--only to take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father". So we see that he never actually was killed. He gave up his life by his own free will.

I'm reminded of the humility required not to come down from the cross at any time and crush them when he had the power to do so.

What are your thoughts?

The reference to Jesus laying down His life, is that He allowed men to kill Him, not that he took His own life. Remember, though He was/is God incarnate, He also became a human being. Therefore, it was the accumulation of His being whipped with the flagellum which had pieces of metal and bone on the end of leather straps and nailed to the stake which killed Him and which He allowed. I'm sure that if the Lord wanted to, he could kept himself from the beatings and from being crucified. Remember what He said at Gethsemane to Peter when he drew his sword? "Are you not aware that I can call on My Father, and He will at once put at My disposal more than twelve legions of angels, but then who would the scriptures be fulfilled?"

So the reference to Jesus laying down His life freely, means that He allowed those men to beat him and crucify Him so that He could make the payment for our sins. And as we know, the Lord taking his life back up again, is in reference to His resurrection.

 

[RevelationMan]

The reference to Jesus laying down His life, is that He allowed men to kill Him, not that he took His own life. Remember, though He was/is God incarnate, He also became a human being. Therefore, it was the accumulation of His being whipped with the flagellum which had pieces of metal and bone on the end of leather straps and nailed to the stake which killed Him and which He allowed. I'm sure that if the Lord wanted to, he could kept himself from the beatings and from being crucified. Remember what He said at Gethsemane to Peter when he drew his sword? "Are you not aware that I can call on My Father, and He will at once put at My disposal more than twelve legions of angels, but then who would the scriptures be fulfilled?"

So the reference to Jesus laying down His life freely, means that He allowed those men to beat him and crucify Him so that He could make the payment for our sins. And as we know, the Lord taking his life back up again, is in reference to His resurrection.

But in John 19:30 we see that Jesus actually gave up his own spirit nobody took it from him.

When he had received the drink, Jesus said, “It is finished.” With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

 

[Guojing]

I have to wonder "was Jesus really killed or not". Did anyone take his life? It is commonly taught that the Romans and Jews killed Jesus but is that really what happened?

I think there is good evidence to say that he was not killed but rather he gave up or laid down his own life on his own free will and nobody took it from him. We see in John 10:18..."The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life--only to take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father". So we see that he never actually was killed. He gave up his life by his own free will.

I'm reminded of the humility required not to come down from the cross at any time and crush them when he had the power to do so.

What are your thoughts?

The 12 did not understand that Jesus had to die for the sins of mankind, even in early Acts.

Jesus’s death and resurrection were used by Peter, not to illustrate the divine exchange as Paul did, but as the final proof that Jesus is indeed the Son of God, the promised Messiah.

In fact, not only did Peter not preach the divine exchange aspect of Jesus’s cruxifiction on the cross, I notice one constant theme he hammered to his Jewish listeners was that they were responsible for crucifying Jesus.

Examples were Acts 2:36, where Peter says, "... Jesus, whom ye crucified ...." Peter also says in Acts 3:14-15, "But ye denied the Holy One ... and killed the Prince of life ...." Then in Acts 5:30 he says, "... Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree." Finally Stephen, who also preached Peter's gospel, told the Jews in Acts 7:52, "Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers ...."

Only until the end of Peter's lifetime, he started to write in 1 Peter that Jesus died for the sins of mankind.

 

[Ahwatukee]

But in John 19:30 we see that Jesus actually gave up his own spirit nobody took it from him.

When he had received the drink, Jesus said, “It is finished.” With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

Jesus gave up His spirit because His body was failing to the point of death. He was killed as a result of the beatings and being crucified, which He allowed. He suffered a real physical death.