THE LIE IN LORDSHIP SALVATION THEORY

[EleventhHour]

Here’s the problem with Lordship Salvation, as I see it.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.

OK then, I believe – now I’m saved.
Having believed and gotten saved, I see that I don’t have enough good works – so I must not be saved.
Well then I better get saved.

OK then, I believe – now I’m saved.
Having believed and gotten saved, I see that I don’t have enough good works – so I must not be saved.
Well then I better get saved.

OK then, I believe – now I’m saved.
Having believed and gotten saved, I see that I don’t have enough good works – so I must not be saved.
Well then I better get saved.

(ad infinitum)

LS puts you in a circle of futility.

Assurance of salvation doesn’t come from self-examination or self-assessment. It comes from believing God’s promise – “hath everlasting life” – period!

Amen

Lordship Salvation... meaning one must perform to prove salvation to oneself and others, is so hung up on works providing evidence of salvation that they will deny irrefutable PROOF from scripture that someone has eternal life based on the very words of scripture.

 

[Chester]

Looks like Wuhan virus does something to the mental processes of some.

I definitely do not agree with Sudakar on some things, but how does disagreeing on a theological point mean an accusation like this?

 

[Judges1318]

1) Your faith which hides your sins and claims you don't sin is phoney.

I hide nothing:

"9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness." - 1 John 1:9

2) Your faith which hasn't sold all your possessions and given to the poor is also phoney.

Then yours is phony too.

3) Abraham was saved apart from his obedience (Romans 4:5). He wasn't saved after his obedience.

Did someone say he wasn't?
I didn't.

4) Your faith is phoney as you haven't died for your brethren (1John 3:16).

"But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God. 21To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.

22“He committed no sin,
and no deceit was found in his mouth.” e
23When they hurled their insults at him, he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no threats. Instead, he entrusted himself to him who judges justly." - 1 Peter 2:20-23

Virtually every moment in this forum requires me to follow Christ's example of dying for the church.

5) My faith believes & confesses in Christ's grace alone to prove I am saved.

Even fake believers have a confession of faith.
A confession of faith proves nothing.
Being changed by the Holy Spirit is what proves you are saved.

 

[EleventhHour]

I definitely do not agree with Sudakar on some things, but how does disagreeing on a theological point mean an accusation like this?

Sad eh..

 

[EleventhHour]

Then yours is phony too.

Not really he makes no claim that is salvation is proven (heavy evidence on proven) by his works rather his salvation is based upon whom he has trusted for his salvation...........Christ Jesus.

Those that cannot accept that salvation is a free gift continue to relate to God on a performance basis and project that outward.

 

[gb9]

I hide nothing:

"9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness." - 1 John 1:9


Then yours is phony too.


Did someone say he wasn't?
I didn't.


"But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God. 21To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.

22“He committed no sin,
and no deceit was found in his mouth.” e
23When they hurled their insults at him, he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no threats. Instead, he entrusted himself to him who judges justly." - 1 Peter 2:20-23

Virtually every moment in this forum requires me to follow Christ's example of dying for the church.


Even fake believers have a confession of faith.
A confession of faith proves nothing.
Being changed by the Holy Spirit is what proves you are saved.

yes, they are fake believers. 100%

but, it is not YOUR job to discern who is real and who is fake.

but, that is what lordship salvation does- gives one permission to judge others, which by the way, Jesus directly said not to do this.

He listed no exceptions

 

[Judges1318]

yes, they are fake believers. 100%

but, it is not YOUR job to discern who is real and who is fake.

but, that is what lordship salvation does- gives one permission to judge others, which by the way, Jesus directly said not to do this.

He listed no exceptions

1 Corinthians 5

It's like you people don't even know what the Bible says.
...or care, for that matter.

 

[Judges1318]

Not really he makes no claim that is salvation is proven (heavy evidence on proven) by his works rather his salvation is based upon whom he has trusted for his salvation...........Christ Jesus.

Those that cannot accept that salvation is a free gift continue to relate to God on a performance basis and project that outward.

Then why does he say perfection is the standard for knowing you are saved if he himself does not believe there is any standard by which we know the saved from the unsaved?

And why do you instantly equate works in any context with works salvation?
You do have a changed/ changing life, right? Don't you?

 

[Judges1318]

1) The unsaved don't have the mindset to sin. They also struggle with it.

"5 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires" - Romans 8:5

If the unsaved don't have their minds set on the desires of the flesh, who does then, lol.

2) The unsaved haven't died to the moral law (Rom7:4) as you haven't died. No difference.

Then you are unsaved too. No difference for you either then.

3) Perfect people in the process of being made holy through knowledge that Christ alone is their holiness (1Cor1:30). Your sanctification is phoney.

So, let me get this straight.
You not being any different in your salvation than the unsaved person is sanctification, but my becoming more and more different than the unsaved person in my salvation is not sanctification. Gotcha.

4) Your claim of "increasing works of righteousness" is phoney according to james 2:10 because you do unrighteousness as well.

2 Peter 1:8 is not phony.

"8For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure"

5) Entrance into God's kingdom is only by grace through faith. Don't daydream you could boast you entered by your good works. God hates it.

Good works don't earn anyone entrance into the kingdom of God.
Jesus being Lord in a believer hardly equates to works earning salvation.
Who told you obeying Christ means you're trying to earn your salvation?

6) Claiming those who believe and struggle against sin and don't live in it unabashedly like the unbeliever, will enter in" is indeed works based salvation and the phoney faith of lordship salvation.

No believer in whom Jesus is Lord enters into the kingdom on the merit of their works.
Who told you that Jesus being Lord of the believer means that person is trying to earn salvation?

 

[Judges1318]

Though the lordship salvationist doesn't cease sinning, when he sees a christian not ceasing from sin, he accuses him as unsaved. Why?

Not sure what your definition of 'lordship salvationist' is, but the answer to your question is for the same reason Paul said to kick the unrepentant unabashed sinner out of the congregation in 1 Corinthians 5. Now, you explain to us why Paul made the distinction between the sinner in 1 Corinthians 5 and the rest of the people in the church.

It is because the lordship salvationists claim they have repented that is, ceased from sinning before they believed in Christ.

I never heard that argument before.
I can't defend an argument I'm not familiar with, nor agree with.
I don't think you know what 'Lordship Salvation' actually teaches.

Thus they they trust in their works for salvation.

That would hardly be 'Lordship Salvation'.
You probably should do your homework to find out what it actually teaches.

Thus, that which distinguishes the believer from the unbeliever is not works because the unbeliever also trusts in his works like the lordship salvationists.

I suppose if 'Lordship Salvation' was defined as trusting in the merit of one's works to earn salvation you'd have an argument, but as it is that is not what it teaches.

So that which distinguishes the believer from the unbeliever is faith alone in Christ's atonement alone. The unbeliever doesn't have this.

I think you mean 'righteousness apart from works' (Romans 4:5), not 'faith alone' (James 2:24).
The believer has 'righteousness apart from works'.
The fake believer has 'faith alone'.
They are not the same.
Do you know the difference?

 

[Judges1318]

Not really he makes no claim that is salvation is proven (heavy evidence on proven) by his works rather his salvation is based upon whom he has trusted for his salvation...........Christ Jesus.

If he says my faith is phony if I haven't sold all I have and given to the poor then so is his.

Those that cannot accept that salvation is a free gift continue to relate to God on a performance basis and project that outward.

Yeah, but what does that have to do with the believer being changed into a person who does more and more righteous things in obedience to Lord Jesus?

Why are all works of righteousness 'works salvation' to you?
Don't you have works of righteousness to show for your faith in Christ?

 

[Judges1318]

but, that is what lordship salvation does- gives one permission to judge others, which by the way, Jesus directly said not to do this.

He listed no exceptions

"17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector." - Matthew 18:17

 

[cv5]

yes, they are fake believers. 100%

but, it is not YOUR job to discern who is real and who is fake.

but, that is what lordship salvation does- gives one permission to judge others, which by the way, Jesus directly said not to do this.

He listed no exceptions

Lordship salvation gives people permission to judge others? That makes no sense please elaborate.

 

[EleventhHour]

If he says my faith is phony if I haven't sold all I have and given to the poor then so is his.


Yeah, but what does that have to do with the believer being changed into a person who does more and more righteous things in obedience to Lord Jesus?

Why are all works of righteousness 'works salvation' to you?
Don't you have works of righteousness to show for your faith in Christ?

Well he doesn't claim to prove his faith by his works... others do.

The point is, that as taught in the book of James, works demonstrate that the faith that justified us (faith being invisible) so that others may also believe.

 

[Judges1318]

Well he doesn't claim to prove his faith by his works... others do.

And so he has decided that if salvation is to be proven it has to be proven by sinless perfection.
In complete defiance of what scripture actually says.
But I know why he's fighting against it.

The point is, that as taught in the book of James, works demonstrate that the faith that justified us (faith being invisible) so that others may also believe.

Uh, yeah.....okay, whatever.

 

[EleventhHour]

Then why does he say perfection is the standard for knowing you are saved if he himself does not believe there is any standard by which we know the saved from the unsaved?

And why do you instantly equate works in any context with works salvation?
You do have a changed/ changing life, right? Don't you?

I do not equate works in any context as works salvation what is problematic is stating ...No Works >>>> No Salvation
We are saved by grace thorough faith alone.

 

[Judges1318]

I do not equate works in any context as works salvation what is problematic is stating ...No Works >>>> No Salvation
We are saved by grace thorough faith alone.

No change of life means no Spirit of God present to effect that change.
This teaching is so plain in scripture it amazes me that people want to insist the Bible is wrong about this.
But I know why they resist it.

 

[EleventhHour]

No change of life means no Spirit of God present to effect that change.
This teaching is so plain in scripture it amazes me that people want to insist the Bible is wrong about this.
But I know why they resist it.

You miss the point once again.

 

[Judges1318]

You miss the point once again.

Oh, I understand your point perfectly.
You reason that since a person is saved the instant they believe before they do any works whatsoever, works have no bearing on salvation from that point forward.
Your problem is, you don't believe the scriptures that say the faith that saves apart from works is the faith that obeys God.

Faith that does not obey God is called 'faith alone' in the scriptures. It is the faith that can not save. Only the faith that produces obedience in a person is the faith that saves apart from works.
Don't confuse 'faith alone' with 'righteousness apart from works'.
It's obvious that you don't realize the difference.

 

[gb9]

Oh, I understand your point perfectly.
You reason that since a person is saved the instant they believe before they do any works whatsoever, works have no bearing on salvation from that point forward.
Your problem is, you don't believe the scriptures that say the faith that saves apart from works is the faith that obeys God.

so, once again, here we go- belief in Christ is not enough, it takes works to save.

so, please stop saying that you think that belief in Christ saves, you clearly do not think this.