Does Oneness theology (Modalism) teach a "sock puppet" view of God's nature?
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Just Truth,
When I think of God being "triune," I think of that in terms of nature. God is the Father to all who Believe. Christ is God completely (Father-Son-Holy Spirit) as the Son, like we Believers are Sons/Daughters of God (Doesn't necessarily mean Christ is God's literal Son). And the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God that lives within us and keeps us connected to God.
The Church Fathers claimed God begat His own WORD and His own Wisdom (Spirit).
Why I dislike the Greek point of view personally, everything they write is in a triune format. Their own beliefs stem from a triune pagan Goddess, their justice system is set up in a triune branch system, their legal system has 3 branches, everything they did was in a triune format. Naturally, when they translated the Aramaic Gospels, they made it "Triune," because that is how they viewed any Deity.
But my question to you is specific:
God works with humanity as either the Father, the WORD, or the Holy Spirit.
Jesus Himself in John 4 said God is a Spirit: This tells me He did not see "persons" and neither does the Holy Spirit inspire the Authors of the Bible to ever use "persons." I think if they were "Persons," Jesus would have said so! He flat out told us God is a Spirit:
So I am a big fan of Manifestations over Persons, because the Bible specifies God Manifests (The WORD manifests into flesh in 1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
But how God works, is a combination of Father-Son-Holy Spirit. And these 3 are the "Same God." In that format, God is Triune, would you agree?
When I think of God being "triune," I think of that in terms of nature. God is the Father to all who Believe. Christ is God completely (Father-Son-Holy Spirit) as the Son, like we Believers are Sons/Daughters of God (Doesn't necessarily mean Christ is God's literal Son). And the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God that lives within us and keeps us connected to God.
The Church Fathers claimed God begat His own WORD and His own Wisdom (Spirit).
Why I dislike the Greek point of view personally, everything they write is in a triune format. Their own beliefs stem from a triune pagan Goddess, their justice system is set up in a triune branch system, their legal system has 3 branches, everything they did was in a triune format. Naturally, when they translated the Aramaic Gospels, they made it "Triune," because that is how they viewed any Deity.
But my question to you is specific:
God works with humanity as either the Father, the WORD, or the Holy Spirit.
Jesus Himself in John 4 said God is a Spirit: This tells me He did not see "persons" and neither does the Holy Spirit inspire the Authors of the Bible to ever use "persons." I think if they were "Persons," Jesus would have said so! He flat out told us God is a Spirit:
So I am a big fan of Manifestations over Persons, because the Bible specifies God Manifests (The WORD manifests into flesh in 1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
But how God works, is a combination of Father-Son-Holy Spirit. And these 3 are the "Same God." In that format, God is Triune, would you agree?
The early fathers of Trinitarians(actually Semi-Trinitarians) come to defend the Trinity at Nicea by using the terms and wordings of oneness proponent Sabellius. Ironically, the original formulation of early Nicene Creed has a great influence from the teaching of Oneness. If Oneness doctrine is a bad terrible theology, then how come the early defenders of Trinity at Nicea using all the terms and wordings of Oneness doctrine to defeat Arianism?
Here's the video of how Oneness had a great influence to early defenders of Trinity doctrine...
Here's the video of how Oneness had a great influence to early defenders of Trinity doctrine...
Attachments
Amen Brother!
I know people connected to all which I had listed and wondered if you happened to be a part of them. Were you by chance United Pentecostal or Assemblies of the Lord Jesus Christ before ending up Independent? I know for many that is the common route. But they still remain true to their roots.
I had to look him up. Interesting to see the "Oneness Gospel of Jesus" worldwide. But like you have mentioned in your prior posts, even when Tertullian began pushing the "trinity" idealism, there were far more who opposed him because Oneness is what the Church Fathers themselves preached.
I am an avid fan of the Disciple John's (Revelation, Gospel of John, I-II-III John) own Disciples Iggy and Polycarp. They taught and I copy/paste:
God, then, having His own Word internal within His own bowels,
........... begat Him, emitting Him
........... along with His own wisdom before all things.
but the wisdom [Spirit in this instance is Sophia] of God which was in Him, and
........... His holy Word which was always present with Him.
^
So clearly, the Disciples of Jesus were not trinity either!
The Greek translation has distorted the Aramaic horribly and then English has butchered it that much more!
God, then, having His own Word internal within His own bowels,
........... begat Him, emitting Him
........... along with His own wisdom before all things.
but the wisdom [Spirit in this instance is Sophia] of God which was in Him, and
........... His holy Word which was always present with Him.
^
What this is literally saying, that the WORD and WISDOM (Spirit) are not separate on their own, because they come from within God Himself and remain as Him.
........... begat Him, emitting Him
........... along with His own wisdom before all things.
but the wisdom [Spirit in this instance is Sophia] of God which was in Him, and
........... His holy Word which was always present with Him.
^
What this is literally saying, that the WORD and WISDOM (Spirit) are not separate on their own, because they come from within God Himself and remain as Him.
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I totally believe in God the Father, the WORD, and the Holy Spirit. In titles alone I buy the triune view. But nowhere in Scripture does Jesus or the Holy Spirit inspired writers of the Books of Bible ever say they are "Persons." Interpretation made them seem to be Persons. What we do know for certain and as a fact, Jesus did say, GOD is a Spirit:! And Jesus was making it very clear here!
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Let's see! How many Bibles were in existence in 200 AD? No Textus Receptus at all. Very few Alexandria, probably no Caesarean or Western. How many people owned or had access to a NT? Other than some of the leaders, almost none.
So which Christian believers are you talking about?
Finally, show me some evidence that second century believers believed in oneness doctrine. I think by the huge fight between Arius and the rest of the church, early on the third century AD, there were a few, who were considered heretical, because none of the church councils accepted, Arius and his doctrine.
The plurality of God is found in both the NT & OT. The Shema, in Deut 6 says, "Hear oh Israel, the Lord is one!" The word for "one" is Echad, which means "one of many." It is used elsewhere for "one bunch of grapes." So although there is only one bunch, there are many grapes.
God is one in plurality, or, God is one in three. God is a Trinity. One ousia, three hypostasis.
Don't bother answering me unless you come loaded with quotes from reputable sources. Oh wait...there are none!
So which Christian believers are you talking about?
Finally, show me some evidence that second century believers believed in oneness doctrine. I think by the huge fight between Arius and the rest of the church, early on the third century AD, there were a few, who were considered heretical, because none of the church councils accepted, Arius and his doctrine.
The plurality of God is found in both the NT & OT. The Shema, in Deut 6 says, "Hear oh Israel, the Lord is one!" The word for "one" is Echad, which means "one of many." It is used elsewhere for "one bunch of grapes." So although there is only one bunch, there are many grapes.
God is one in plurality, or, God is one in three. God is a Trinity. One ousia, three hypostasis.
Don't bother answering me unless you come loaded with quotes from reputable sources. Oh wait...there are none!
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@Angela53510 you still here?
The original Nicene Creed is not Trinitarian.
UnitedWithChrist how about the Hypostatic Union is there the distinction of the Divinity and humanity of Christ?
The Holy Spirit is the one Spirit of the Father in action.
The proper to analyze Oneness theology that God is only one Person concerning his Divinity or Deity(who is the Father), but during the Incarnation the humanity set in(Christ human). There is the distinction between the Father and Son, as the distinction between the Deity and humanity, but then like a Hypostatic Union the distinction of Deity and humanity of Christ is in single unified.
Your analogy is a misrepresentation of Oneness theology