The absurdity and heresy of Preterism

[DorothyMae]

I see you have cherry picked this one for your advantage.


Although it is sometimes claimed that Irenaeus believed Christ did not die until he was older than is conventionally portrayed, the bishop of Lyon simply pointed out that because Jesus turned the permissible age for becoming a rabbi (30 years old and above), he recapitulated and sanctified the period between 30 and 50 years old, [ citation needed ] as per the Jewish custom of periodization on life, and so touches the beginning of old age when one becomes 50 years old.

Looks like rationalizing away an inconvenient fact. Jesus did not sanctify the ages between 30 and 50. You can read the whole of his sayings and he never said anything close to this. I am not the only one who reads the errors of Iraneus, this excuse being one of them. It doesn't help your cause to tell us another error on the part of Iraneus to cover up the first one.

But I am likely done discussing this with you Biker and CV5 unless you stop attacking the person you disagree with. CV5 thought I made up stuff when I mentioned the birthdate of Polycarp. This is a really unbelievable attack.

 

[biker]

Looks like rationalizing away an inconvenient fact. Jesus did not sanctify the ages between 30 and 50. You can read the whole of his sayings and he never said anything close to this. I am not the only one who reads the errors of the man, this excuse being one of them. It doesn't help your cause to tell us another error on the part of Iraneus to cover up the first one.

But I am likely done discussing this with you Biker and CV5 unless you stop attacking the person you disagree with. CV5 thought I made up stuff when I mentioned the birthdate of Polycarp. This is a really unbelievable attack.

No, if you are familiar with Jewish Customs this would have been a no brainer for you. But in your haste to contort what is being claimed reveals you have no clue about the RABBI position!

 

[DorothyMae]

How did they know what the Jesuits aimed at protestants long before the Reformation? Can you show this teaching in history any time before the Reformation? What you say is not true unless you can.

What? The first century christians believed that when the sign Jesus mentioned happened, they needed to leave town immediately. We know this becuase they left town right after armies were surrounding the city and withdrew for a time. That is actually the best proof of what people believe, seeing what they actually do. There were no Jesuits then. The christians knew Jesus was talking of their generation when he warned them and what was coming was described in Revelation and they did not need to be part of it if they left town. Pretty simple. To say that the Jesuits made up that theology is absurd. Those christians knew that the events of revelation were to take place in their lifetimes and we know they knew this because of what they did in accoradance with that belief. It is all pretty simple.

 

[DorothyMae]

You should have made a career in politics. Or better yet, as an used car salesperson.

Adieu.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Step up, gentlemen. Let's have actual evidence for your claims.

You can go here for a long list of Preterist web sites and sources.
https://prophecyquestions.com/2013/01/01/preterist-websites/
Some may or may not be accessible.

But here is what the International Preterist Association says about itself: "We believe Scripture teaches Christ would come again in that first century generation while some of His original disciples were still alive, to raise the dead, change the living, and catch up both groups together into the heavenly presence of Christ. "

 

[biker]

Adieu.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

That's the distorted pigeonhole version.

From what I have heard and read, preterists believe that significant parts of the end-time prophecies were fulfilled 2000 years ago. However, I have not seen strong consistency regarding exactly what has been fulfilled and what is yet to be. That's why I think it's appropriate for them to be quoted.

It looks like they are pretty well organised. "International Preterist Association"

https://www.preterist.org/about-us/what-is-preterist-view/ Are speaking for themselves here?

"partial" or "full" it looks like a sect under deception to me.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Nothing that bad has happened since nor before. Is that bad? That’s not the description. But that same description was told to other nations in the OT and the solar bodies didn’t change then either.
Where does the Bible say that?
Where is that verse?
Those inside slew each other, those who had fought and killed the people of God. Where is that verse?
While the eruption of Vesuvius which buried Herculaneum and devastated Pompeii in 79AD was recorded.

First, I know what the dream Nebbie got means. None of that was realized in God forcibly taking over any place in a military action which is what you claim Revelation is saying.[/quote]

First, it is not just military action, but supernatural as well. God is going to be taking back ownership of the earth.

Revelation is about the end of human government leading up to Christ's millennial kingdom. The dream that Nebuchadnezzar was initiated by God. Also, God is not taking anything over by military action, but by the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, many of them being supernatural events.

My question was when did God ever do this in the course of human history. The future is not history. If I ask you WHEN DID God do this is human history you cannot site your belief in Him doing this in the future as an example. Your need to site such an event in the past. I assume you have no examples and know, actually, that there are none.

The wrath of God, the Day of the Lord i.e. the coming tribulation period will be something that has never happened before. It is not something that has happened in the past.

Second, I know the dispensationalist view of revelation. Believed it all myself once.

Well, you should go back to believing it, because that is where the world is headed, i.e the time of God's wrath.

You can still believe this is a future event as long as you base no real decision on that belief. If you make major decisions based on your faith in this, you will face disappointment.

I have been studying the word of God and Revelation for over 45 years and I have not faced disappointment yet, as I have watched the events unfold here our life time, with the first ATM's, the Universal Product Codes (UPC) and the Point of Sale (POS) and now the implanting of the RFID chip under the skin of the hand.

Your claim is moot, because the events listed in Revelation are already lining up. Take the mark of the beast for example: Currently in Sweden and her sister countries, they are for the most part cashless, making the majority of their purchases with credit and debit cards. Now they are receiving an RFID chip under the skin of the hand between the thumb and index finger which fits right in with Rev.13:16

"He causes all both rich and poor, great and small, free and slave, to receive a mark on the right hand or forehead. Unless anyone had the mark they would be able to buy or sell."

Now there are companies here in the US where their employees are also being chipped under the skin of the hand. Coincidence? Not hardly! This is prophecy being fulfilled and we are living in that last generation. This technology will continue to grow and evolve and is getting set up in preparation for that coming antichrist/beast. It is during the middle of the last seven years that the mark in the right hand or the forehead will become mandatory for buying and selling. At that time, all other methods of buying and selling will become obsolete, so that it will force people to either receive the mark or reject it.

You can still believe this is a future event as long as you base no real decision on that belief.

What you said above doesn't make any sense. What purpose would it serve to believe this as being a future event, if you don't base a real decision on that belief? Whatever God has written regarding end time events will and is taking place. In the very beginning of Revelation it states:

"This is the revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants what must take place in quickness. He made it known by sending His angel to His servant John"

So once these events of wrath listed in Revelation begin, they will take place like a woman having birth pains, taking place closer together and becoming more intense right up until the Lord returns to the earth to end the age. Once the church has been removed, shortly afterwards the antichrist will emerge, which is represented by the rider on the white horse at the opening of the first seal.

By your attitude regarding end time events, you appear to be going through life with your eyes wide shut in regards to Bible prophecy. But you better open them and realize what is going on. Watch the following videos if you dare and see what is going on with this mark technology. These are not Christian driven videos, but is in reference to the fulfillment of scripture regarding the coming mark of the beast, which will continue evolve leading up to the beasts reign.

"And the second beast required all people small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their forehead, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark—the name of the beast or the number of its name."

I put a chip in my hand to replace my wallet

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...C5293894ECC971F10B69C5293894ECC971F&FORM=VIRE

Why human microchipping is so popular in Sweden

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...2743370E610BFFE708A4274&view=detail&FORM=VIRE

Sweden sees Micro Chip implant Revelution

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...11162254663A99D9F832111&view=detail&FORM=VIRE

 

[Mii]

May I ask you a question or two?
Do you actually believe in the supernatural plagues of the Exodus and the miraculous events at mount Sinai exactly as they are written? Do you believe in the miraculous events of the 38 year sojourn (manna, pillar of fire pillar of cloud, shoes/clothes not wearing out etc)?

BTW, The fact that their shoes and clothes did not wear out is really a remarkable miracle in itself!
https://biblehub.com/deuteron

Relevant question perhaps...

I didn't realize the contents of Deut 29:5...I appreciate it, always a cool thing to learn something like that.

I've already shared my thoughts on this subject, but I do think the two witnesses to be the most directly relevant personally. I won't get into why, but I will say I rather like the idea of a pre-flood witness as a candidate as one makes the most sense to me for many reasons.

Oh and I really like the waiting vs debating thing. Sharpening and discussion is great but it can certainly go to far and distract us from "waiting" as succinctly put.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
About the thread:

As to preterism, this site doesn't endorse it and perhaps a quote from a mod may be helpful? Partial preterism has some basis for discussion but full preterism feels like death and similar to atheistic thinking, I can't quite get into the why, only that I avoid its germination much like I avoid thoughts that set themselves up against God.

Besides, why (if you believe such a thing) is it relevant to those that don't?

I spend a lot of time looking at narrow instances in scripture that don't suit the generalized whole, but I don't share a lot of my insights into revelation, particular the evil side that I have dreamed about and it's disgusting, There is some incredibly sick stuff on the horizon and some things I had to pray in dreams to wake up and I thank God sincerely that he allowed me to.

To suggest that it's already past and yet directly correlates to the present is troubling to see. To be fair, I can understand that if one didn't have such a personal experience how it could be different. Each of us has a different walk.


There's a radio pastor that hosts a show called "To every man an answer" (from the scripture verse) and he frequently points out the verse..

"37. But as in the days of No'e were so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that No'e entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." Matthew 24

I don't know why it says No'e instead of Noah but I like the lack of copyright rules pertaining to the KJV so that's what I use online for the most part...but anyway, there are a LOT of relevant passages around MT 24 and 25. The mentality that we must have, but certainly this will look a bit different "specifically" for others but "collectively" it should echo palpably. If not, I would encourage further heart examination. I am doing so now, may we all do likewise.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Regarding the great earthquake which will split the Mt of Olives so that the Jewish remnant may escape. Zech 14:3-5

Is that bad?

It doesn't matter whether you personally think it's bad or not.
If the landscape of Jerusalem was so drastically altered it would still be visible today.
A large valley is a notable feature to archaeologists.

It is very strong evidence that the day of The Lord's return has not yet occurred.

 

[Mii]

May I ask you a question or two?
Do you actually believe in the supernatural plagues of the Exodus and the miraculous events at mount Sinai exactly as they are written? Do you believe in the miraculous events of the 38 year sojourn (manna, pillar of fire pillar of cloud, shoes/clothes not wearing out etc)?

BTW, The fact that their shoes and clothes did not wear out is really a remarkable miracle in itself!
https://biblehub.com/deuteron

Relevant question perhaps...

I didn't realize the contents of Deut 29:5...I appreciate it, always a cool thing to learn something like that.

I've already shared my thoughts on this subject, but I do think the two witnesses to be the most directly relevant personally. I won't get into why, but I will say I rather like the idea of a pre-flood witness as a candidate as one makes the most sense to me for many reasons.

Oh and I really like the waiting vs debating thing. Sharpening and discussion is great but it can certainly go to far and distract us from "waiting" as succinctly put.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
About the thread:

As to preterism, this site doesn't endorse it and perhaps a quote from a mod may be helpful? Partial preterism has some basis for discussion but full preterism feels like death and similar to atheistic thinking, I can't quite get into the why, only that I avoid its germination much like I avoid thoughts that set themselves up against God.

Besides, why (if you believe such a thing) is it relevant to those that don't?

I spend a lot of time looking at narrow instances in scripture that don't suit the generalized whole, but I don't share a lot of my insights into revelation, particular the evil side that I have dreamed about and it's disgusting, There is some incredibly sick stuff on the horizon and some things I had to pray in dreams to wake up and I thank God sincerely that he allowed me to.

To suggest that it's already past and yet directly correlates to the present is troubling to see. To be fair, I can understand that if one didn't have such a personal experience how it could be different. Each of us has a different walk.


There's a radio pastor that hosts a show called "To every man an answer" (from the scripture verse) and he frequently points out the verse..

"37. But as in the days of No'e were so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that No'e entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." Matthew 24

I don't know why it says No'e instead of Noah but I like the lack of copyright rules pertaining to the KJV so that's what I use online for the most part...but anyway, there are a LOT of relevant passages around MT 24 and 25. The mentality that we must have, but certainly this will look a bit different "specifically" for others but "collectively" it should echo palpably. If not, I would encourage further heart examination. I am doing so now, may we all do likewise.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I don't know why it says No'e instead of Noah...

The KJV translators were reproducing the Greek spellings rather than translating the names. I believe that was not a good idea, since they then had to call Joshua "Jesus", and all Hebrew names had to checked against the OT.

 

[DorothyMae]

Regarding the great earthquake which will split the Mt of Olives so that the Jewish remnant may escape. Zech 14:3-5

Thats what you believe but that doesn’t matter. It’s your personal opinion.

It doesn't matter whether you personally think it's bad or not.

Don’t ask what is bad if you’re going to discredit every answer cause it has the word “bad” in it. Jesus thinks it was the worst (a kind of bad) in all human history. Do you care if Jesus thinks it was bad too?

If the landscape of Jerusalem was so drastically altered it would still be visible today.

You’re joking right?? Jerusalem was totally ploughed under and why don’t you see that today? They rebuilt it.

A large valley is a notable feature to archaeologists.

There are valleys there and “large” doesn’t matter cause your thinking what large is doesn’t matter.

It is very strong evidence that the day of The Lord's return has not yet occurred.

He returned to Ephesus as promised and did as he threatened. I’ve been there. Very strong evidence he came to them as promised...that’s in the past, by the way.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Where does the Bible say that?

It requires a good study of Ezekiel Chapters 36-39 in context with the rest of the prophetic books.
Deuteronomy 32 is a great place to start.


Ezekiel 39 (NASB)

7 “My holy name I will make known in the midst of My people Israel; and I will not let My holy name be profaned anymore. And the nations will know that I am the Lord, the Holy One in Israel.

8 Behold, it is coming and it shall be done,” declares the Lord God. “That is the day of which I have spoken.

Notice how he refers to himself in this verse.
Not the The Holy One of Israel as in other verses but The Holy One in Israel.

The nations will know that I am Yahweh, the Holy One in Israel.
I will not let my holy name be profaned anymore!


Ezekiel 38:23
23 I will magnify Myself, sanctify Myself, and make Myself known in the sight of many nations; and they will know that I am the Lord.”’

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Thats what you believe but that doesn’t matter. It’s your personal opinion.

Zechariah is MY PERSONAL OPINION?

No. I do not agree with that.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Where is that verse?

Zechariah 14 NASB)

12 Now this will be the plague with which the Lord will strike all the peoples who have gone to war against Jerusalem; their flesh will rot while they stand on their feet, and their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongue will rot in their mouth.

 

[tanakh]

Sigh! Replies to my posts from Pre Tribbers are filled with texts proving that the resurrection and transformation of the righteous known as the rapture by some is in the Bible. I dont know why because I never said it wasnt. What I do believe is that you have the timing of the event and the understanding of the tribulation period completely wrong by following Dispensationalism. It would take a lengthy book to go through every detail and there are plenty around already without me writing another one.

What I write about is as follows.....

''No one knows the day or the hour''. This saying doesnt mean what people think. It doesnt mean Christ could come at any moment. Its connected to a Jewish festival. The festival is Rosh Hashanah, the start of the new year. It is associated with the coming of the Messiah. The start of Rosh Hashanah was determined by the sighting of the new moon by the high priest over a period of two days. When sighted a Shofar was sounded to let the people know that the new year had started. I believe that Jesus will return at the time of Rosh Hashanah but the day or hour is unknown.

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout
with the voice of the archangel and with the trump of god

1 Thess 4: 16

In Matthew 24-25 there are three parables.

The first is about good and bad servants and their treatment of fellow servants

The second is about servants who have been given money to invest for their master

The third is about wise and foolish Bridesmaids

All three have one main point those who are ready for his return receive an reward and those
who arn't ready don't receive one and have a very bad time.

For some reason the bridesmaid parable has been hijacked by dispensationalists.
Whole threads have been posted with each detail scrutinised. I have never seen
the other two parables given this treatment but the main point in those is the
same. All of Jesus parables are based on everyday events. They always have
at least one major point but the one thing in common is that you are not
suposed to pick them apart. A famous nit picker was Augustine with his take
on the parable of the good Samaritan

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

The cities of the nations collapsed in an earthquake which was larger than any earthquake in human history?

Where is that verse?

Revelation 16 (NASB)

18 And there were flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder; and there was a great earthquake, such as there had not been since man came to be upon the earth, so great an earthquake was it, and so mighty. 19 The great city was split into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. Babylon the great was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of His fierce wrath.

 

[DorothyMae]

First, I know what the dream Nebbie got means. None of that was realized in God forcibly taking over any place in a military action which is what you claim Revelation is saying.

First, it is not just military action, but supernatural as well. God is going to be taking back ownership of the earth.

Revelation is about the end of human government leading up to Christ's millennial kingdom. The dream that Nebuchadnezzar was initiated by God. Also, God is not taking anything over by military action, but by the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, many of them being supernatural events.



The wrath of God, the Day of the Lord i.e. the coming tribulation period will be something that has never happened before. It is not something that has happened in the past.



Well, you should go back to believing it, because that is where the world is headed, i.e the time of God's wrath.



I have been studying the word of God and Revelation for over 45 years and I have not faced disappointment yet, as I have watched the events unfold here our life time, with the first ATM's, the Universal Product Codes (UPC) and the Point of Sale (POS) and now the implanting of the RFID chip under the skin of the hand.

Your claim is moot, because the events listed in Revelation are already lining up. Take the mark of the beast for example: Currently in Sweden and her sister countries, they are for the most part cashless, making the majority of their purchases with credit and debit cards. Now they are receiving an RFID chip under the skin of the hand between the thumb and index finger which fits right in with Rev.13:16

"He causes all both rich and poor, great and small, free and slave, to receive a mark on the right hand or forehead. Unless anyone had the mark they would be able to buy or sell."

Now there are companies here in the US where their employees are also being chipped under the skin of the hand. Coincidence? Not hardly! This is prophecy being fulfilled and we are living in that last generation. This technology will continue to grow and evolve and is getting set up in preparation for that coming antichrist/beast. It is during the middle of the last seven years that the mark in the right hand or the forehead will become mandatory for buying and selling. At that time, all other methods of buying and selling will become obsolete, so that it will force people to either receive the mark or reject it.



What you said above doesn't make any sense. What purpose would it serve to believe this as being a future event, if you don't base a real decision on that belief? Whatever God has written regarding end time events will and is taking place. In the very beginning of Revelation it states:

"This is the revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants what must take place in quickness. He made it known by sending His angel to His servant John"

So once these events of wrath listed in Revelation begin, they will take place like a woman having birth pains, taking place closer together and becoming more intense right up until the Lord returns to the earth to end the age. Once the church has been removed, shortly afterwards the antichrist will emerge, which is represented by the rider on the white horse at the opening of the first seal.

By your attitude regarding end time events, you appear to be going through life with your eyes wide shut in regards to Bible prophecy. But you better open them and realize what is going on. Watch the following videos if you dare and see what is going on with this mark technology. These are not Christian driven videos, but is in reference to the fulfillment of scripture regarding the coming mark of the beast, which will continue evolve leading up to the beasts reign.

"And the second beast required all people small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their forehead, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark—the name of the beast or the number of its name."

I put a chip in my hand to replace my wallet

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...C5293894ECC971F10B69C5293894ECC971F&FORM=VIRE

Why human microchipping is so popular in Sweden

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...2743370E610BFFE708A4274&view=detail&FORM=VIRE

Sweden sees Micro Chip implant Revelution

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...11162254663A99D9F832111&view=detail&FORM=VIRE[/QUOTE]
You have a problem with the translation “quickness” because you see events unfolding over 4 DECADES. That’s not quick. What is more, there is no evil in using credit cards or a cashless purchase that condemns one to hell. No one in Sweden (been there recently) is worshipping anything or anyone. So there is a big justice problem.

You probably don’t live in Europe. I’ve heard Europe is the beast or antichrist for decades....until I got here.

Interesting that you’re not disappointed to see the most horrible time (in your view) unfolding that will subject those you love to unspeakable suffering. You’ll be disappointed to know the Gospel is spreading around the world rapidly and war and violence are decreasing. The klingons if this world are becoming His. It cannot now be stopped.

 

[Dave-L]

What? The first century christians believed that when the sign Jesus mentioned happened, they needed to leave town immediately. We know this becuase they left town right after armies were surrounding the city and withdrew for a time. That is actually the best proof of what people believe, seeing what they actually do. There were no Jesuits then. The christians knew Jesus was talking of their generation when he warned them and what was coming was described in Revelation and they did not need to be part of it if they left town. Pretty simple. To say that the Jesuits made up that theology is absurd. Those christians knew that the events of revelation were to take place in their lifetimes and we know they knew this because of what they did in accoradance with that belief. It is all pretty simple.

Jesus told them to leave. And history affirms not one perished. This is not Preterism. It's scripture and accepted as true in Amillennialism. Hint; Preterism = all of Matthew 24 was fulfilled then, and this is false.