"God loves everyone" - false
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"God does not love everyone."
I firmly disagree. The essence, the heart of Christianity is unconditional love, and any view that would seek to restrict or diminish the scope of God's love will necessarily present a distorted picture of God.
1 John 4:8 says "God is love".
R.C. Sproul may have said “A god who is all love, all grace, all mercy, no sovereignty, no justice, no holiness, and no wrath is an idol.”
I both agree and disagree with this. I would agree that a God who is "no sovereignty, no justice, no holiness and no wrath is an idol.
But if we are to take what Sproul said literally then are we to assume that God is "part love, part grace, part mercy, part sovereignty, part justice, part holiness and part wrath?
Of course not!
Rather I would say that God is in fact ALL Love, ALL Grace, ALL Mercy, ALL Sovereignty, ALL Justice, ALL Holiness... but He is NOT... all wrath. What does the Bible say about God's wrath? It says that it lasts only a moment. (Psalm 30:5)
God's wrath is not something inherent in His character, it is a response to sin. It persists so long as sin persists. The fires of hell are not the result of some sort of vengeful sentiment on God's part. God is Love, but He is also a consuming fire (Hebrews 12:29) and these two things are NOT contradictions or tensions in God's essence. God's love IS a fire.
God's very love becomes a source of torment when it is resisted and turned away from, in the same way that sunlight is pleasant to someone who's eyes are healthy, but if their eyes are diseased or accustomed to darkness, the same light that is a source of pleasure and joy to the healthy person becomes a source of pain to those whose eyes are not healthy or accustomed to light. "Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed." (John 3:20).
Those who push back against the essential biblical truth that God IS love, and therefore by His very nature brings forth and holds everything in existence through His love distort His character and make people less willing to put their trust in Him. They present a God who is ambivalent... "maybe He loves you, maybe He doesn't... maybe you are part of the elect, maybe you aren't, who knows?" It's a recipe for crises of faith.
With regards to the passages that seem to suggest (at face value) that God loves some and hates others, those must be read as phenomenological language. The Bible is chock full of phenomenological language.
If we are to take passages like these at face value, then we must also say that God is not omniscient because He had to ask Adam questions in the garden and didn't know where Adam was at one point. He also had to come down to see if the rumors He heard about Sodom and Gomorra were true. So taking certain passages and just reading them at face value and concluding something negative about God's nature or character is not an adequate handling of Scripture.
Even John Calvin, a chief proponent of the "God doesn't love everyone" teaching, was able to recognize the existence of phenomenological language in Scripture. When commenting on Exodus 32:14 and Genesis 6:6, which talk about God "repenting", he said:
"The repentance which is here ascribed to God does not properly belong to him, but has reference to our understanding of him. For since we cannot comprehend him as he is, it is necessary that, for our sake, he should, in a certain sense, transform himself. That repentance cannot take place in God, easily appears from this single consideration, that nothing happens which is by him unexpected or unforeseen. The same reasoning, and remark, applies to what follows, that God was affected with grief."
I would add here that the same reasoning also applies to the idea that God is affected with hatred for some.
So just because some Scriptures when taken at face value appear to teach that God loves some but hates others, is no more reason to accept that as true than it is to accept that God repented, changed His mind, or didn't know something, simply because some Scriptures when taken at face value seem to suggest that.
Jesus revealed God's character to us...
He said: "You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor’ and ‘Hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Do not even tax collectors do the same? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even Gentiles do the same? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."
Here Jesus draws a parallel between the way we are to treat our enemies and the way God treats His enemies... with unconditional love and respect.
I firmly disagree. The essence, the heart of Christianity is unconditional love, and any view that would seek to restrict or diminish the scope of God's love will necessarily present a distorted picture of God.
1 John 4:8 says "God is love".
R.C. Sproul may have said “A god who is all love, all grace, all mercy, no sovereignty, no justice, no holiness, and no wrath is an idol.”
I both agree and disagree with this. I would agree that a God who is "no sovereignty, no justice, no holiness and no wrath is an idol.
But if we are to take what Sproul said literally then are we to assume that God is "part love, part grace, part mercy, part sovereignty, part justice, part holiness and part wrath?
Of course not!
Rather I would say that God is in fact ALL Love, ALL Grace, ALL Mercy, ALL Sovereignty, ALL Justice, ALL Holiness... but He is NOT... all wrath. What does the Bible say about God's wrath? It says that it lasts only a moment. (Psalm 30:5)
God's wrath is not something inherent in His character, it is a response to sin. It persists so long as sin persists. The fires of hell are not the result of some sort of vengeful sentiment on God's part. God is Love, but He is also a consuming fire (Hebrews 12:29) and these two things are NOT contradictions or tensions in God's essence. God's love IS a fire.
God's very love becomes a source of torment when it is resisted and turned away from, in the same way that sunlight is pleasant to someone who's eyes are healthy, but if their eyes are diseased or accustomed to darkness, the same light that is a source of pleasure and joy to the healthy person becomes a source of pain to those whose eyes are not healthy or accustomed to light. "Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed." (John 3:20).
Those who push back against the essential biblical truth that God IS love, and therefore by His very nature brings forth and holds everything in existence through His love distort His character and make people less willing to put their trust in Him. They present a God who is ambivalent... "maybe He loves you, maybe He doesn't... maybe you are part of the elect, maybe you aren't, who knows?" It's a recipe for crises of faith.
With regards to the passages that seem to suggest (at face value) that God loves some and hates others, those must be read as phenomenological language. The Bible is chock full of phenomenological language.
If we are to take passages like these at face value, then we must also say that God is not omniscient because He had to ask Adam questions in the garden and didn't know where Adam was at one point. He also had to come down to see if the rumors He heard about Sodom and Gomorra were true. So taking certain passages and just reading them at face value and concluding something negative about God's nature or character is not an adequate handling of Scripture.
Even John Calvin, a chief proponent of the "God doesn't love everyone" teaching, was able to recognize the existence of phenomenological language in Scripture. When commenting on Exodus 32:14 and Genesis 6:6, which talk about God "repenting", he said:
"The repentance which is here ascribed to God does not properly belong to him, but has reference to our understanding of him. For since we cannot comprehend him as he is, it is necessary that, for our sake, he should, in a certain sense, transform himself. That repentance cannot take place in God, easily appears from this single consideration, that nothing happens which is by him unexpected or unforeseen. The same reasoning, and remark, applies to what follows, that God was affected with grief."
I would add here that the same reasoning also applies to the idea that God is affected with hatred for some.
So just because some Scriptures when taken at face value appear to teach that God loves some but hates others, is no more reason to accept that as true than it is to accept that God repented, changed His mind, or didn't know something, simply because some Scriptures when taken at face value seem to suggest that.
Jesus revealed God's character to us...
He said: "You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor’ and ‘Hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Do not even tax collectors do the same? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even Gentiles do the same? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."
Here Jesus draws a parallel between the way we are to treat our enemies and the way God treats His enemies... with unconditional love and respect.
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We all understand foundationally all have done wrong, all have done evil for it is written. @DBurrage
Would it be fair to say in light of this, that God hates everyone since all have done evil?
If He hated us, why would He send His Son to save us? And He did it whilst we were His enemies.
Hasn't Jesus said, "Love your enemies"?
One thing I realised years ago that God would not command us to do something that He does not do Himself.
What's your opinion on the above?
Would it be fair to say in light of this, that God hates everyone since all have done evil?
If He hated us, why would He send His Son to save us? And He did it whilst we were His enemies.
Hasn't Jesus said, "Love your enemies"?
One thing I realised years ago that God would not command us to do something that He does not do Himself.
What's your opinion on the above?
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2 Peter 3: KJV
9 "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."
So if God hates people would The above verse be in the Bible? Not willing that ANY should perish? and that ALL should come to repentance ??? I don't think so..
1 John 4: KJV
10 "Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins."
1 John 2: KJV
2 "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."
He loves us all and wills for all to repent.. His Atonement ( propitiation ) is made avaliable to the whole world and that means everyone.. He first loved those who did not love Him.. He still does..
1 John 4: KJV
19 "We love him, because he first loved us."
9 "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."
So if God hates people would The above verse be in the Bible? Not willing that ANY should perish? and that ALL should come to repentance ??? I don't think so..
1 John 4: KJV
10 "Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins."
1 John 2: KJV
2 "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."
He loves us all and wills for all to repent.. His Atonement ( propitiation ) is made avaliable to the whole world and that means everyone.. He first loved those who did not love Him.. He still does..
1 John 4: KJV
19 "We love him, because he first loved us."
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In reference to Psalm 5:5
Hmmm, I like the idea of "love less" so I looked up the Hebrew. It said, "1) to hate, be hateful 1a) (Qal) to hate 1a1) of man 1a2) of God 1a3) hater, one hating, enemy (participle) (subst) 1b) (Niphal) to be hated 1c) (Piel) hater (participle) 1c1) of persons, nations, God, wisdom "
Just to be safe I went to another website (at random). It repeated what was above.
Hmmm, I like the idea of "love less" so I looked up the Hebrew. It said, "1) to hate, be hateful 1a) (Qal) to hate 1a1) of man 1a2) of God 1a3) hater, one hating, enemy (participle) (subst) 1b) (Niphal) to be hated 1c) (Piel) hater (participle) 1c1) of persons, nations, God, wisdom "
Just to be safe I went to another website (at random). It repeated what was above.
Hmmm... looked up the Greek for the word HATE in Luke 14:26 ... said "1) to hate, pursue with hatred, detest 2) to be hated, detested "
Aside: I don't think Jesus spoke Hebrew... I thought I heard he spoke Aramaic ... seems to be the consensus I.E. https://www.christianity.com/wiki/jesus-christ/what-was-the-language-of-jesus.html
Aside: I don't think Jesus spoke Hebrew... I thought I heard he spoke Aramaic ... seems to be the consensus I.E. https://www.christianity.com/wiki/jesus-christ/what-was-the-language-of-jesus.html
Re: Psalm 5:5
Maybe an idiom... maybe not.
Maybe your bias (not saying you are wrong, saying you could be) to make the verse coincide with your belief that God loves everyone.
I always prefer the literal. I admit Luke 14:26 is hard to swallow in regards to HATE.
Aside: got to go...wife wants to watch movie
Maybe an idiom... maybe not.
Maybe your bias (not saying you are wrong, saying you could be) to make the verse coincide with your belief that God loves everyone.
I always prefer the literal. I admit Luke 14:26 is hard to swallow in regards to HATE.
Aside: got to go...wife wants to watch movie
Hey, I will take the side of the debate that affirms: God does not love everyone
Now, maybe this would upset people. If I get 3 people say they don't want to hear my side, I will say nothing to keep the peace.
(3 being arbituary ...guess if I get DON"T DO IT... I won't)
Bedtime
Aside: Sucks to be taking DBurrage'd side of the argument
Now, maybe this would upset people. If I get 3 people say they don't want to hear my side, I will say nothing to keep the peace.
(3 being arbituary ...guess if I get DON"T DO IT... I won't)
Bedtime
Aside: Sucks to be taking DBurrage'd side of the argument
Why doesn't God love everyone? Why would He bother to send Jesus to die for us if He didn't care about us? I mean if sin is the reason God doesn't love us then He should just zap us out of existence and move on with the next project.
It is because God is love that He wants to reconcile us back to Him and He wants us to love Him and told us how we could love Him.
Who are these people God doesn't love and why doesn't He love them... Can't be because of sin because God gave us a Savior and a way out to come back to Him.....
Please help me to understand your reasoning... Thanks
It is because God is love that He wants to reconcile us back to Him and He wants us to love Him and told us how we could love Him.
Who are these people God doesn't love and why doesn't He love them... Can't be because of sin because God gave us a Savior and a way out to come back to Him.....
Please help me to understand your reasoning... Thanks
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