"Not by works" - false!

[EleventhHour]

the problem is they mistake grace with licentiousness.

No one here teaches licentiousness. But since they hate true grace.. They have to attack and claim we love our sin and do not care how we live and think we can live and do anything we desire.

Yes and here is what Paul has to say to them.. a verse they do not want to deal with.....

A person who turns the Grace of God into a reason for depravity ... is perverted logic that slanders Grace in order to exalt their worthiness....

And why not say, “Let us do evil that good may come”?—as we are slanderously reported and as some affirm that we say.
Their condemnation is just.
Romans 3:8

Paul states people who slander GRACE with this perverted logic do so from a heart of unbelief and their condemnation is just.

 

[EleventhHour]

So you do believe we should keep God's commandments - yes or no?

It you were genuine in your question you would be clear on what you mean by God's commandments?

I have a right to ask you to define your terms and clarify so that I may be give an answer based on what I know you are asking.
Until then I cannot respond because your question is to vague.

 

[DBurrage]

It you were genuine in your question you would be clear on what you mean by God's commandments?

I have a right to ask you to define your terms and clarify so that I may be give an answer based on what I know you are asking.
Until then I cannot respond because your question is to vague.

Is John 14:15 too vague?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

"explain your point # 2 where you said we must do our best if we want to be saved"

Because God tells us to keep his commandments
John 14:15
Ecclesiastes 12:13

We are told that if we don't consciously turn away from sin, that Jesus' sacrifice will not cover those sins
Hebrews 10:23

You're conflating keeping God's commandments with a 'salvation by works' doctrine.
I'm not going to spend another day going round in circles with you on this.

Do you want to keep God's commandments or not?

So then you DO think that obedience to Gods commands are required to be saved.

You just stated as much right here, So please. will you stop denying it>

As for what I desire to do. I already answered that with you. I am born again, I have a new nature, My nature works by its nature, which is that love is what feeds it.. And since LOVE fulfills the law. because LOVE does not break the law. Then by practice. I KEEP GODS COMMANDS (not perfectly)

So please. stop asking me over and over about keeping Gods commands..

What seperates our gospels is this

1. You think obedience is REQUIRED to achieve salvation ( a saved person may or may not obey, and if they do not. salvation will be lost)
2. I think obedience is A BYPRODUCT of salvation (a saved person WILL obey as he who began a good work WILL continue that work until the day of Christ)

1. You say they MUST
2. I say they WILL


I fail to understand why you claim that you do not teach keeping Gods commands are a requirement for salvation. Then sit there and say if we do not keep them. then the blood of Christ will no longer wash our sins.

Can you open you eyes and see this contradiction or not?

 

[DBurrage]

So then you DO think that obedience to Gods commands are required to be saved.

You just stated as much right here, So please. will you stop denying it>

As for what I desire to do. I already answered that with you. I am born again, I have a new nature, My nature works by its nature, which is that love is what feeds it.. And since LOVE fulfills the law. because LOVE does not break the law. Then by practice. I KEEP GODS COMMANDS (not perfectly)

So please. stop asking me over and over about keeping Gods commands..

What seperates our gospels is this

1. You think obedience is REQUIRED to achieve salvation ( a saved person may or may not obey, and if they do not. salvation will be lost)
2. I think obedience is A BYPRODUCT of salvation (a saved person WILL obey as he who began a good work WILL continue that work until the day of Christ)

1. You say they MUST
2. I say they WILL


I fail to understand why you claim that you do not teach keeping Gods commands are a requirement for salvation. Then sit there and say if we do not keep them. then the blood of Christ will no longer wash our sins.

Can you open you eyes and see this contradiction or not?

Let me put it another way.
Do you believe that if you flagrantly disobey God's commandments, that you still attain salvation?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes and here is what Paul has to say to them.. a verse they do not want to deal with.....

A person who turns the Grace of God into a reason for depravity ... is perverted logic that slanders Grace in order to exalt their worthiness....

And why not say, “Let us do evil that good may come”?—as we are slanderously reported and as some affirm that we say.
Their condemnation is just.
Romans 3:8

Paul states people who slander GRACE with this perverted logic do so from a heart of unbelief and their condemnation is just.

Of course

It is a belief in self and their ability, which stems from human nature after the fall.

Human nature says I must, To humble oneself like the tax collector by allowing ourselves to become spiritually bankrupt with no hope left. and have to rely on the love of someone else to do everything for us, is the hardest decision one will ever make. and it goes against human reasoning and logic. That whay the gate is so narrow. and so few enter in.

Look at human religion.

God will love me IF I DO...All the worlds religion are based on this concept. If I do then God will let me in. If I do not l then God will cast me out.

Sadly. Much of the so called church has bought into this same human religion. which focuses on self and not on God. Based soleley on unbelief Paul spoke of.

 

[DBurrage]

@Oncefallen
I submitted a thread for review: the thread is called "God loves everyone - false". I can't see that the thread is in the list anymore. Is it in the process of being reviewed?

Apologies to call you in the middle of another thread, but I don't seem to be able to send you a PM

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Let me put it another way.
Do you believe that if you flagrantly disobey God's commandments, that you still attain salvation?

Do you believe you do NOT flagrantly disobey Gods commands on a regular bases?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

@Oncefallen
I submitted a thread for review: the thread is called "God loves everyone - false". I can't see that the thread is in the list anymore. Is it in the process of being reviewed?

Apologies to call you in the middle of another thread, but I don't seem to be able to send you a PM

threads sometimes take up to a half a day to get approved.. Sometimes longer as Mods are busy, I would not worry yet..

 

[DBurrage]

Do you believe you do NOT flagrantly disobey Gods commands on a regular bases?

Again, sidestepping my question...

Do you believe that if you flagrantly disobey God's commandments, that you still attain salvation?

 

[DBurrage]

threads sometimes take up to a half a day to get approved.. Sometimes longer as Mods are busy, I would not worry yet..

OK fair enough. I'm still getting used to this website.

 

[jackrosie]

Show me one place in the Bible where intercourse is approved of outside the covenant of marriage. Just one.

For a born again...there should be no sex outside of marriage....

Let me put it another way.
Do you believe that if you flagrantly disobey God's commandments, that you still attain salvation?

Of course you do...!....The Lord disciplines his children....he certainly has me...in a certain area....I wouldn’t dare go back and repeat what I did......God is a perfect Father.

I also agree there should be NOsex outside of marriage.....but we all have weaknesses....you still won’t lose salvation..

 

[DBurrage]

For a born again...there should be no sex outside of marriage....




Of course you do...!....The Lord disciplines his children....he certainly has me...in a certain area....I wouldn’t dare go back and repeat what I did......God is a perfect Father.

Exactly, of course we must obey our Father's commandments.

But the thing I'm having to deal with in this thread is that some people are accusing me of preaching a 'salvation by works' gospel for saying so.

 

[EleventhHour]

attain salvation?

We do not attain salvation.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Again, sidestepping my question...

Do you believe that if you flagrantly disobey God's commandments, that you still attain salvation?

I am not sidestepping

I am trying to get you to see a point

Everyone flagrantly disobeys God. It is a fact that if doing that disqualifies us then NO ONE will get to heaven.

So my answer is yes.

And your answer better be yes also. Otherwise you condemn yourself!

Unless of course, You think your sins are mistakes and oopsies. and not flagrant willfull sins.. Of which case. We have another issue. that needs dealt with.

 

[DBurrage]

I am not sidestepping

I am trying to get you to see a point

Everyone flagrantly disobeys God. It is a fact that if doing that disqualifies us then NO ONE will get to heaven.

So my answer is yes.

And your answer better be yes also. Otherwise you condemn yourself!

Unless of course, You think your sins are mistakes and oopsies. and not flagrant willfull sins.. Of which case. We have another issue. that needs dealt with.

No, there is a difference between making mistakes and flagrantly willfully sinning against God.
This is the point of Hebrews 10:23.

 

[jackrosie]

Exactly, of course we must obey our Father's commandments.

But the thing I'm having to deal with in this thread is that some people are accusing me of preaching a 'salvation by works' gospel for saying so.

You keep saying “WE” ......we do nothing in our own strength...the Lord helps us keep the commandments.....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

For a born again...there should be no sex outside of marriage....




Of course you do...!....The Lord disciplines his children....he certainly has me...in a certain area....I wouldn’t dare go back and repeat what I did......God is a perfect Father.

I also agree there should be NOsex outside of marriage.....but we all have weaknesses....you still won’t lose salvation..

I am still dumbfounded at the use who yesterday admitted that christians can still fall into sexual sin.. Yet somehow claim it somehow was different. and not willfull and on purpose? making it seeminly ok for them, but not others.. where does this thinking come from?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Exactly, of course we must obey our Father's commandments.

But the thing I'm having to deal with in this thread is that some people are accusing me of preaching a 'salvation by works' gospel for saying so.

again

People say this BECAUSE you say it is required or you will lose salvation.

Will you at least humble yourself and admit the bolded part is where the contention lies. and WHY you are being accused?

 

[Judges1318]

We do not attain salvation.

10I want to know Christ—yes, to know the power of his resurrection and participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11and so, somehow, attaining to the resurrection from the dead. - Philippians 3:10-11

I think your biggest problem is you simply do not know the Bible.
You know doctrines that you have been taught, but you do not know the Bible.