"Jesus died for everybody's sins"

[eternally-gratefull]

You should also have highlighted the last sentence...

"...but He did not justify every person, thus He did not die for every person."

That again would be wrong..

He died for all.

He justified those who say yes in faith of the unseen.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The following possibilities must be evaluated:

Is the condition of faith for each person in their power to perform?

which is false as faith cometh by hearing and not everyone has heard the gospel

else does the Lord grant everyone the grace to believe,

which is false for not all believe, not all are saved

Thus, since “every person is Not capable of faith” and “the Lord does NOT grant everyone the grace to believe”

then the obtaining salvation and redemption for everyone by the blood of Jesus Christ, amounts to this:
-- God intends that he shall die for all, to procure for them remission of sins, reconciliation with him, eternal redemption and glory; but yet so that they shall never have the least good by these glorious things, unless they perform that which he knows they are incapable of doing, and which none but himself can enable them to perform, and which concerning far the greatest part of them he is resolved not to do. Is this support the idea that Christ should die for them for their good? or rather, that he should die for them to expose them to shame and misery? Is it not as if a man should promise a blind man a thousand pounds upon condition that he will see.

again a false premise

Romans 1 makes it clear no one has an excuse. Because they not only Know who gad is. They know what they do is wrong, and they deserve judgment

Thus be definition. everyone has the ABILITY to say yes in faith.

But as God said according to paul, He gives them over to their lusts, he allows them to die in unbelief.

 

[Fastfredy0]

@eternally-gratefull @Runningman

Any one, any where, who is still alive can receive salvation for their souls according to the Bible.

Premise 1: Faith cometh by hearing ... Romans 10:17
Premise 2: Faith is necessary for Salvation John 3:16
Premise 3: Not everyone hears the Gospel ... empirical evidence affirms this premise
Premise 4: What ever God sets out to do will occur ... Isaiah 46:10 ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose’,
Conclusion: God did not die for everyone

How do you solve this issue?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The natural man is a lost person. An unregenerate person. Unless God quickens him, he can not understand it.

But God can not quicken him until he sins are redeemed
You can not be made alive while still dead in sin

 

[eternally-gratefull]

And I agree with this. The unregenerate person isn’t zapped with the Spirit and then later on saved via the gospel.

I agree

God draws a person. This may take a few weeks, it may take a few years. it may take a lifetime.

If the person repents and calls out to God. In a moment That person is justified. And because of that justification. The person. no longer being dead because of sin, Is made alive (quickened) in Christ.

 

[tourist]

You were parading it about as works salvation. It has nothing to do with that.

Actually, I just posted a few verses pertaining to salvation. Apparently, we are at another standstill in our exchanges. It's all good Dave.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I understand where you are coming from, however, this is a complicated topic that ties into the idea of free will and predestination. I will try to explain the concept I believe as best I can. To begin this explanation, I must set the stage. To do so one will ahve to accept the following statement: As humans, I believe we have free will.


Adam made the mistake, and brought death into the world. As his descendants, we are brought into a world of death created by the first downfall of Adam.

Regarding your first statement, the Jewish religion was established as a way to go to heaven, however atonement was required for every sin in the form of sacrifices, in order to be a righteous person. We know people from the old testament went to heaven because of the example of Elijah in 1 Kings 18.

Jesus was sent down to earth as the ultimate sacrifice for all of our sins. In order to reap the benifits of the sacrifice, similar to the way they were in Judaism, we as Christians instead only need to accept the sacrifice made for us, instead of needing to sacrifice animals like the Jews.

Adam was not a sacrifice, he made the first mistake.

So to accept Jesus is not the same as to accept Adam, as implied in your response. I apologize for any misintepriation, but based on the statements i have presented, your statement would be considered a false analogy.

An attempt to simplify the statements I have made:

we as humans are born into a world of sin because of adam

we do not deserve forgiveness period but we were given a chance through salvation

to do this we must work for it even though there is technically nothing we can do to earn it

to get back to God, we must follow his instruction

Jews had to make sacrifices for their sins to get to heaven

we know there was heaven for Jews because of the story of Elijah rising to heaven

Jesus made the ultimate sacrifice

we as Christians no longer need to sacrifice

But to receive blessings caused by Jesus's sacrifice we need to love and accept him



I hope this helped explain my point of view! I'm willing to work a bit more to put it into a more organized thought if necessary.

Hebrews says the blood of bulls and goats never took away sin

Can you explain this?

 

[DBurrage]

That again would be wrong..

He died for all.

He justified those who say yes in faith of the unseen.

"He justified those who say yes in faith of the unseen"

Precisely.
Does Jesus' sacrifice cover those who do not repent their sins and follow Christ?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Exactly, SO THAT EVERYONE WHO BELIEVED IN HIM...

When people say "Jesus died for my sins", they mean to imply that Jesus' sacrifice covers their sins.
But this is not the case for people who do not reconcile themselves with God through Jesus, i.e. Jesus' sacrifice doesn't save everybody, i.e. Jesus didn't die for everybody's sins.

He provided everybody the OPPORTUNITY to follow him, but not everybody will.

Again this is wrong

Their sins are paid

They will die eternally because of one sin, Unbelief

he who does not believe is condemned already because they have not believed....

 

[Fastfredy0]

Romans 1 makes it clear no one has an excuse. Because they not only Know who gad is. They know what they do is wrong, and they deserve judgment

Ah, I see your point. For these people that never hear the gospel, general revelation is enough. I agree that they are without excuse and deserve hell. I also say to 0.00000% of them have a chance to be saved as no one seeks God.

Premise 1: God determines whether or not people will hear the gospel
Premise 2: Many people never hear the gospel
Premise 3: What ever God sets out to do will occur ... Isaiah 46:10 ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose’,
Conclusion: God determined certain people will not hear the gospel. Thus God did not die for everyone.

 

[Dave-L]

Actually, I just posted a few verses pertaining to salvation. Apparently, we are at another standstill in our exchanges. It's all good Dave.

We have two different Christs, two different Christianities, and so on.

 

[DBurrage]

Again this is wrong

Their sins are paid

They will die eternally because of one sin, Unbelief

he who does not believe is condemned already because they have not believed....

So even the sins of non-believers are covered by Jesus' sacrifice, other than the sin of non-belief?

 

[tourist]

We have two different Christs, two different Christianities, and so on.

If that is true then I can only hope that I am in the correct group. We can't both be right Dave so one of us is going down. Guess I'll just throw you under the bus and start moving forward once again.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So even the sins of non-believers are covered by Jesus' sacrifice, other than the sin of non-belief?

Is this not what the scripture says?

Did Jesus not say all sin will be forgiven men (I showes you this in your other thread)

Did Not John the baptist call him the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world>

At the great white, are they judged for sin or works? My bible reads works..

 

[Fastfredy0]

Their sins are paid

They will die eternally because of one sin, Unbelief

Where does the bible say God forgives all sins except unbelief?

If your statement be true, why then are some given greater punishment in hell than others seeing as all in hell only have one sin (unbelief) held against them according to your hypothesis?

he who does not believe is condemned already because they have not believed....

The verse does not say they are not condemned for other sins other than unbelief.
https://www.gotquestions.org/sin-of-unbelief.html (save me time typing)

 

[Dave-L]

If that is true then I can only hope that I am in the correct group. We can't both be right Dave so one of us is going down. Guess I'll just throw you under the bus and start moving forward once again.

Check how close you are to historic Christianity before making your call. I base all on the historic creed's understanding of Scripture.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

@eternally-gratefull @Runningman


Premise 1: Faith cometh by hearing ... Romans 10:17
Premise 2: Faith is necessary for Salvation John 3:16
Premise 3: Not everyone hears the Gospel ... empirical evidence affirms this premise
Premise 4: What ever God sets out to do will occur ... Isaiah 46:10 ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose’,
Conclusion: God did not die for everyone

How do you solve this issue?

What is Gods will?

John 6: 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

John 3: 16 For God so loved the world. he gave his only begotten son, that WHOEVER believed in him will not perish but has everlasting life.

He gave his son to the world. Even John the baptist said behold. the lamb of God who takes the sin of the world.

He does not force the world to take his gift though..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Where does the bible say God forgives all sins except unbelief?

If your statement be true, why then are some given greater punishment in hell than others seeing as all in hell only have one sin (unbelief) held against them according to your hypothesis?

He who does not believe is condemned already

Where does it say they were condemned because of sin

Jesus said all sin and blasphemy will (not might) be forgiven. bit even then, WHoever blasphemes the HS (unbelief) will never be forgiven.

As for differing punishment

they all died in unbelief.. thats what matters the most. what happens after they get to hell in unbelief is up to God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

"He justified those who say yes in faith of the unseen"

Precisely.
Does Jesus' sacrifice cover those who do not repent their sins and follow Christ?

Yes

why would it not?

Jesus paid the debt for SIN

I think people try to read to much into what that means.

 

[DBurrage]

Is this not what the scripture says?

Did Jesus not say all sin will be forgiven men (I showes you this in your other thread)

Did Not John the baptist call him the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world>

At the great white, are they judged for sin or works? My bible reads works..

I'm not sure you're right.
Can you provide a passage that says that all sins of unbelievers are washed away by Jesus' sacrifice (other than the sin of unbelief)?

I'll let you continue the debate with @Fastfredy0 who also seems to disagree with you