Rightly Dividing Sinless Perfection

[ChosenbyHim]

I have heard a certain Christian say a number of times "There is no such thing as a Carnal Christian."

That simply is not the case. A Christian certainly can be carnal at times, and a Christian is certainly capable of living after the Flesh (Romans 8).
That brother would have been correct if he made the following clarification: "There is no such thing as a Spirit filled Carnal Christian." For no Christian can walk in the Spirit and in the flesh at the same time. You are either walking in the Spirit or in the Flesh. It also is crucial for us to understand that The Old Adamic, Sin Nature is not eradicated in this life.

Also, Christians have a free will, and their walk is volitional. Now obviously, a Christian should not live in sin. A Christian should not live after the flesh. A Christian should walk in the Spirit. But the problem is no Christian walks in the Spirit 24/7. Every Christian has a battle with their flesh. Just as Paul the apostle had in his flesh (see Romans 7). And Contrary to what the Pelegians like Jesse Morrell are saying, sinless perfection is not attainable in this life. Should we strive for sinless perfection? Absolutely. We most certainly should strive for sinless perfection.
But let us not be deluded to think that we do not sin any more. As we grow in our walk with the Lord, we should be striving to walk more and more to develop a deeper relationship with our blessed Saviour. And as we mature in our Christian faith, we should develop a deep hatred for our own sin. When we truly love our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, we will develop a strong hatred for the things that He hates.

Also, let us not forget that Paul was dealing constantly with Carnal Christians when he wrote to the Church at Corinth. A lot of the Christians were so carnal there in that church, that there had been fornication taking place, uncleanness, even to the point where a man had been with his father's wife. What was the problem? Many of the saints at Corinth were living after the flesh. They were not growing in their sanctification as they should have, which is also why Paul had told them that they were yet carnal, as they were envying one another, and constantly having divisions and strife. Paul could not even speak unto them as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. Those Corinthians simply had not grown nor were they maturing as they should have been. Did they lose their salvation? No, of course not. No Christian can lose their salvation since they are a member of the Body of Christ. And so once again, a Christian certainly is capable of sinning and is certainly capable of living carnally. But they will receive chastisement from the Lord, if they do not repent. Sinless perfection will one day be realized by all born again Christians and saints of God. And that will be when we meet Christ up in Glory and receive our new glorified bodies. Then will our sin nature be eradicated once and for all. Praise God! And praise His word, the blessed King James Holy Bible! Then we will be like Christ and will have a new and glorious body fashioned like unto Christ's body. Our new bodies will be fit for eternity. And fit to live and dwell in the direct presence of God for all of eternity. Oh what a glorious and wonderful day that will be!

 

[Blain]

Amazingly written and very well versed in the knowledge of the position at trial bravo.
The thing about this topic is that it is actually a very important one to debate and understand. There are already many new believers who have been severely damaged by the sinless perfection doctrine in fact I have a good friend who struggles with anxiety and ocd, he tries his best but his mind has a sickness that makes him more doubtful and fearful of things like this, many times he loses faith in himself and struggles everyday to fight the doubts and worries that plague his mind.
The sinless perfection doctrine would destroy him and that is why it is dangerous to preach and try to enforce such a doctrine. Many are in danger of such a thing and I don't people who hold this view have any understanding the damage it can cause. What about people like me for instance who constantly struggle with severe depression and are prone to suicidal thoughts? If I thought there was any truth to this doctrine I likely would be bombarded with thoughts I already have about being unworthy and seeing myself as nothing but adisgusting sinfull worm lower than the dirt that even worms eat but at a much stronger level and knowing me I likely would see it as a favor to God and everyone else if I just offed myself.

I already struggle with these thoughts all the time people out there are worse than I am in this and would be destroyed. I suppose that is why I am so agitated about this doctrine of sinless perfection not because it simply isn't true but knowing the damage it can cause and the lives it can take.
I understand this a dark reply but it needs to be understood, and people need to consider the actual damage they can cause or else it could bee to late.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

Amazingly written and very well versed in the knowledge of the position at trial bravo.

Thank you Blain for your encouraging comment, it is appreciated.

The thing about this topic is that it is actually a very important one to debate and understand. There are already many new believers who have been severely damaged by the sinless perfection doctrine in fact I have a good friend who struggles with anxiety and ocd, he tries his best but his mind has a sickness that makes him more doubtful and fearful of things like this, many times he loses faith in himself and struggles everyday to fight the doubts and worries that plague his mind.

I am sorry that your friend deals with OCD and a lot of anxiety. That has to be really tough to fight through in life. Your friend’s condition brings to my stepmother to mind. For When my stepmother was still alive, I remember how much she battled with depression, anxiety, fear, bipolar disorder, among other things. And she was on some heavy, mind altering drugs. After I had gotten and began to mature In my Christian walk, I began to understand that she indeed was saved, but just that she allowed her life to get so out of order. I remember her telling me how there were times when she doubted her salvation. She became so unsure of her standing, and that she struggled with assurance of salvation a lot. But during the times when she was not dealing much with the Bipolar disorder, she ended up being very pleasant, and she really enjoyed talking about the Lord and about the Joy of the Lord.

The sinless perfection doctrine would destroy him and that is why it is dangerous to preach and try to enforce such a doctrine. Many are in danger of such a thing and I don't people who hold this view have any understanding the damage it can cause. What about people like me for instance who constantly struggle with severe depression and are prone to suicidal thoughts? If I thought there was any truth to this doctrine I likely would be bombarded with thoughts I already have about being unworthy and seeing myself as nothing but adisgusting sinfull worm lower than the dirt that even worms eat but at a much stronger level and knowing me I likely would see it as a favor to God and everyone else if I just offed myself.

Blain, indeed, when the Doctrine of Sinless perfection is not rightly divided, it surely causes great issues. And yes, the way that it is taught mostly today is incorrect. Instead of keeping sinless perfection placed in the Dispensation of the Eternal State, they try to bring sinless perfection into this current dispensation of the Church Age, and that is heresy. It is problematic on several levels. And as you pointed out, the heresy of Sinless perfection in this life, it surely can cause damage, especially to new believers. As a matter of fact, sinless perfection is do dangerous that it can cause a Christian to stay out of fellowship with the Lord. For if a Christian Is deluded and deceived into thinking that he no longer sins anymore, then when that Christian does actually sin, he will lie to himself, saying that what he did was not really a sin, but only a fault. Hence, he will not confess that sin, and therefore his fellowship with the Lord will not be restored. 1 John 1 though is very clear that we are to confess our sins unto God for to get back in right fellowship with Him.

I already struggle with these thoughts all the time people out there are worse than I am in this and would be destroyed. I suppose that is why I am so agitated about this doctrine of sinless perfection not because it simply isn't true but knowing the damage it can cause and the lives it can take.


I understand this a dark reply but it needs to be understood, and people need to consider the actual damage they can cause or else it could bee to late.

I appreciate you opening up and sharing some of what you experience and go through, brother. It is sad to hear that you suffer like this at times in your life.

I know of a brother in Christ, who also has struggled a lot in his life with depression. But when he gets around other saints of God, he gets a lot of encouragement from that.

There certainly is a battle for our mind. And the more we read and stay in the word and pray unto God and walk with Him, He will sustain us and help us through these very trials. It is such a comfort to know that He walks with us even through the valleys and through the dark places of our lives, for His word hath promised us that He will never leave us nor forsake us. And so definitely take comfort in that, brother Blain. Be comforted by the holy Scriptures.

And indeed, it must be understood that sinless perfection will only be realized when we meet our Lord in glory. Until then though, our bodies will still contain a sin nature and we will have to battle against our flesh and walk in the Spirit. When we rightly divide sinless perfection and keep it in its proper dispensation, which is the dispensation of the Eternal State, sinless perfection is then a very sound doctrine. But sadly, many people, especially Pelegians like Jesse Morrell, wrongly apply sinless perfection to the present dispensation and to the Christian still in his corruptible body. Hence, they cause much confusion, damage and also leads those that are following their heresy to become very self righteous.

 

[Blain]

Thank you Blain for your encouraging comment, it is appreciated.





I am sorry that your friend deals with OCD and a lot of anxiety. That has to be really tough to fight through in life. Your friend’s condition brings to my stepmother to mind. For When my stepmother was still alive, I remember how much she battled with depression, anxiety, fear, bipolar disorder, among other things. And she was on some heavy, mind altering drugs. After I had gotten and began to mature In my Christian walk, I began to understand that she indeed was saved, but just that she allowed her life to get so out of order. I remember her telling me how there were times when she doubted her salvation. She became so unsure of her standing, and that she struggled with assurance of salvation a lot. But during the times when she was not dealing much with the Bipolar disorder, she ended up being very pleasant, and she really enjoyed talking about the Lord and about the Joy of the Lord.





Blain, indeed, when the Doctrine of Sinless perfection is not rightly divided, it surely causes great issues. And yes, the way that it is taught mostly today is incorrect. Instead of keeping sinless perfection placed in the Dispensation of the Eternal State, they try to bring sinless perfection into this current dispensation of the Church Age, and that is heresy. It is problematic on several levels. And as you pointed out, the heresy of Sinless perfection in this life, it surely can cause damage, especially to new believers. As a matter of fact, sinless perfection is do dangerous that it can cause a Christian to stay out of fellowship with the Lord. For if a Christian Is deluded and deceived into thinking that he no longer sins anymore, then when that Christian does actually sin, he will lie to himself, saying that what he did was not really a sin, but only a fault. Hence, he will not confess that sin, and therefore his fellowship with the Lord will not be restored. 1 John 1 though is very clear that we are to confess our sins unto God for to get back in right fellowship with Him.






I appreciate you opening up and sharing some of what you experience and go through, brother. It is sad to hear that you suffer like this at times in your life.

I know of a brother in Christ, who also has struggled a lot in his life with depression. But when he gets around other saints of God, he gets a lot of encouragement from that.

There certainly is a battle for our mind. And the more we read and stay in the word and pray unto God and walk with Him, He will sustain us and help us through these very trials. It is such a comfort to know that He walks with us even through the valleys and through the dark places of our lives, for His word hath promised us that He will never leave us nor forsake us. And so definitely take comfort in that, brother Blain. Be comforted by the holy Scriptures.

And indeed, it must be understood that sinless perfection will only be realized when we meet our Lord in glory. Until then though, our bodies will still contain a sin nature and we will have to battle against our flesh and walk in the Spirit. When we rightly divide sinless perfection and keep it in its proper dispensation, which is the dispensation of the Eternal State, sinless perfection is then a very sound doctrine. But sadly, many people, especially Pelegians like Jesse Morrell, wrongly apply sinless perfection to the present dispensation and to the Christian still in his corruptible body. Hence, they cause much confusion, damage and also leads those that are following their heresy to become very self righteous.

See you understand perfectly and that is why I am glad there are those who take into consideration the deeper depths of this subjects and while it is not an easy one to dicipher as there are some truths to the other side to a point if people do not learn to ponder the deeper things of God they can be mislead misunderstand or worse cause more damage than they realize.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

See you understand perfectly and that is why I am glad there are those who take into consideration the deeper depths of this subjects and while it is not an easy one to dicipher as there are some truths to the other side to a point if people do not learn to ponder the deeper things of God they can be mislead misunderstand or worse cause more damage than they realize.

Blain, absolutely, the doctrine and subject of sinless perfection must certainly be taken carefully into consideration and examined and studied closely, just as other doctrines should be as well.

Rightly dividing this doctrine and understanding to which dispensation it belongs in is crucial.
Should we hate and abhor sin, and especially the very sin in our own lives?? Absolutely. We must hate and abhor sin, just as our blessed Savlour and Lord hates and abhors sin.

At the same time, we also must understand that we are capable of sinning and even capable of committing any sin that a lost person is capable of committing. Hence, denying ourselves, crucifying the flesh, and walking in the Spirit are crucial in the life of every born again child of God.

 

[stonesoffire]

Sinless perfection is something that Jesus accomplished for us. Within our Spirit man there is no sin.

We reign over our soul by faith. He has crucified our flesh through the action of His Cross. The proof is the new birth. We were instantly changed. But, being yet subject to this world spirit, we are at war with its lies. We battle with the truth of the Word of God, and that Word we receive right from a His mouth to us is the sword of His Spirit!

The logos is at war, but the rhema cuts off its head!

Believe! Our power.