"Jesus died for everybody's sins"
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Circular logic defined: Circular reasoning (Latin: circulus in probando, "circle in proving"; also known as circular logic) is a logical fallacy in which the reasoner begins with what they are trying to end with.
You begin with -- Jesus died for everybody's sins
You end with -- Jesus' sacrifice ... Since Jesus's sacrifice is equivalent to his death, you begun with what your ended with. This is the fallacy of circular logic. You can't use in your conclusion what you used in your premise, in this case JESUS' DEATH/SACRIFICE.
Hey, I agree with your conclusion. I just state that your proof is invalid.
Examples of Circular Reasoning: The Bible is true, so you should not doubt the Word of God.
You begin with -- Jesus died for everybody's sins
You end with -- Jesus' sacrifice ... Since Jesus's sacrifice is equivalent to his death, you begun with what your ended with. This is the fallacy of circular logic. You can't use in your conclusion what you used in your premise, in this case JESUS' DEATH/SACRIFICE.
Hey, I agree with your conclusion. I just state that your proof is invalid.
Examples of Circular Reasoning: The Bible is true, so you should not doubt the Word of God.
Every choice evidently and necessarily implies a refusal, for where there is no leaving out there can be no choice. If there be some whom God has elected unto salvation (2 Thessalonians 2:13b), there must be others who are not elected unto salvation. If there are some that the Father gave to Christ John 6:37), there must be others whom He did not give unto Christ.
To state God died for everyone is to deny the all-wise God a choice as to who would be saved; it is to deny God's choice as to whom He would adopt (legally take another's child (Satan's child John 8:44) and bring it up as one's own).
God did not die for everyone's sins; rather, He chose.
To state God died for everyone is to deny the all-wise God a choice as to who would be saved; it is to deny God's choice as to whom He would adopt (legally take another's child (Satan's child John 8:44) and bring it up as one's own).
God did not die for everyone's sins; rather, He chose.
ALL
....An error occurs when there is confusion about whether we refer to a term in a collective sense, or a distributive sense. A collective sense menas all the items are considered together as a whole. In a distributive sense, all the items are considered separately, one at a time. The tricky thing is that the word "all" can be used either way. When "all" is used collectively, it means "all together". When "all" is used distributively, it means "each and every one." The difference is really important and can often be distinguished only from context.
.. Example... Jill says, "All motorcycles have two whells." Greg responds, "That's ridiculous. A sigle motorcycle has two wheels. And there are of 200,000,000 motorcycles in the world. Therefore, all motorcycles would have over 400,000,000 wheels.
Thus the word ALL is ambiguous and often construed by one's bias.
Biblical Example:
“And early in the morning He came again into the Temple, and all the people came unto Him; and He sat down, and taught them” (John 8:2); are we to understand this expression absolutely or relatively? Does “all the people” mean all without exception or all without distinction, that is, all classes and conditions of people?
Matthew 10:22 All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. The statement does not intend to say that all human beings without exception would hate Christians, since at least the Christians themselves would love one another.
Thus, your verse may not mean ALL DISTRIBUTIVELY. One should seek further explanation using explicit rather than implicit verses.
OK... I gave a possible explanation of your proposal. Now it's your turn to answer this:
Premise 1: Faith cometh by hearing ... Romans 10:17
Premise 2: Faith is necessary for Salvation John 3:16
Premise 3: Not everyone hears the Gospel
Conclusion: Jesus did not die for people that did not hear the gospel as it is not possible that they could be saved
Conclusion: God did not die for everyone
....An error occurs when there is confusion about whether we refer to a term in a collective sense, or a distributive sense. A collective sense menas all the items are considered together as a whole. In a distributive sense, all the items are considered separately, one at a time. The tricky thing is that the word "all" can be used either way. When "all" is used collectively, it means "all together". When "all" is used distributively, it means "each and every one." The difference is really important and can often be distinguished only from context.
.. Example... Jill says, "All motorcycles have two whells." Greg responds, "That's ridiculous. A sigle motorcycle has two wheels. And there are of 200,000,000 motorcycles in the world. Therefore, all motorcycles would have over 400,000,000 wheels.
Thus the word ALL is ambiguous and often construed by one's bias.
Biblical Example:
“And early in the morning He came again into the Temple, and all the people came unto Him; and He sat down, and taught them” (John 8:2); are we to understand this expression absolutely or relatively? Does “all the people” mean all without exception or all without distinction, that is, all classes and conditions of people?
Matthew 10:22 All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. The statement does not intend to say that all human beings without exception would hate Christians, since at least the Christians themselves would love one another.
Thus, your verse may not mean ALL DISTRIBUTIVELY. One should seek further explanation using explicit rather than implicit verses.
OK... I gave a possible explanation of your proposal. Now it's your turn to answer this:
Premise 1: Faith cometh by hearing ... Romans 10:17
Premise 2: Faith is necessary for Salvation John 3:16
Premise 3: Not everyone hears the Gospel
Conclusion: Jesus did not die for people that did not hear the gospel as it is not possible that they could be saved
Conclusion: God did not die for everyone
- John 6:38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but to do the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but that I [give new life and] raise it up at the last day.
John 1:29 - "World" in this verse is the world of believers, according to Thayer's Greek interpretation.
John 6:51 - Same world of believers.
1 Timothy 2:6- "all" who believe.
1 John 2:2 - World of believers.
There are no conditions required my man in his regeneration by the sovereign grace of God.
God did sent his Son to atone for the sins of those that he gave him, and that was all who believe. Jesus was successful in his atonement by saying that he would not lose any, and would raise them all up at the last day.
Romans 5:1-2, - The "faith" is not mankind's faith, but the "faith of Jesus Christ" who justified us Gal 2:16.
The natural man, before he has been born again with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, will not repent of breaking a spiritual law of God, because he cannot discern the things of the Spirit, and thinks such things are foolishness, 1 Cor 2:14.
Eph 2:8 - We are saved by the sovereign grace of God through the faith of Jesus Christ, Not the faith of ourselves. We have no faith in spiritual things until we are born again, with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, in which spiritual faith is a fruit of. Gal 5:22.
No matter how you misinterpret the scriptures, man can not claim credit for saving himself eternally.
John 6:51 - Same world of believers.
1 Timothy 2:6- "all" who believe.
1 John 2:2 - World of believers.
There are no conditions required my man in his regeneration by the sovereign grace of God.
God did sent his Son to atone for the sins of those that he gave him, and that was all who believe. Jesus was successful in his atonement by saying that he would not lose any, and would raise them all up at the last day.
Romans 5:1-2, - The "faith" is not mankind's faith, but the "faith of Jesus Christ" who justified us Gal 2:16.
The natural man, before he has been born again with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, will not repent of breaking a spiritual law of God, because he cannot discern the things of the Spirit, and thinks such things are foolishness, 1 Cor 2:14.
Eph 2:8 - We are saved by the sovereign grace of God through the faith of Jesus Christ, Not the faith of ourselves. We have no faith in spiritual things until we are born again, with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, in which spiritual faith is a fruit of. Gal 5:22.
No matter how you misinterpret the scriptures, man can not claim credit for saving himself eternally.
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Eph 2 explains it clearly in verse 5. Even when we were spiritually dead in sins (willing to kill him) God quickened us together with Christ. For by grace are ye saved. God transformed the natural man without any help, or consent from man.
Verse 8, for by the sovereign grace of God are ye saved through the "faith of Jesus Christ" Gal 2:16 and that not of ourselves, it is the gift of God. Verse 9, Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Verse 8, for by the sovereign grace of God are ye saved through the "faith of Jesus Christ" Gal 2:16 and that not of ourselves, it is the gift of God. Verse 9, Not of works, lest any man should boast.
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The reason that so many of God's children tend to believe that they have to do something to eternally save themselves, is because they are still babes in Christ, and have no knowledge of the doctrine that Jesus taught, Isaiah 28:9
Part of the doctrine of Jesus is that our spiritual faith, which is a fruit of the Holy Spirit, can deliver us, as we sojourn here in this world, from being ignorant of the doctrine that Jesus taught. The Greek interpretation of salvation is "a deliverance". We are delivered eternally by the sovereign grace of God. We, also, can be delivered (saved) by our faith as we solourn here in this world when we are taught, and understand, the doctrine of Jesus Christ through study, and the preaching of the gospel. Our spiritual faith does save (deliver) us, but not eternally. Romans 10:1-3 is an example of this doctrine. This is the reason that jesus instructed his Apostles to go and preach the gospel to the lost sheep of the house of Israel (which is the house of Jacob, as God changed his name to be called Israel, Gen 32:28.
Part of the doctrine of Jesus is that our spiritual faith, which is a fruit of the Holy Spirit, can deliver us, as we sojourn here in this world, from being ignorant of the doctrine that Jesus taught. The Greek interpretation of salvation is "a deliverance". We are delivered eternally by the sovereign grace of God. We, also, can be delivered (saved) by our faith as we solourn here in this world when we are taught, and understand, the doctrine of Jesus Christ through study, and the preaching of the gospel. Our spiritual faith does save (deliver) us, but not eternally. Romans 10:1-3 is an example of this doctrine. This is the reason that jesus instructed his Apostles to go and preach the gospel to the lost sheep of the house of Israel (which is the house of Jacob, as God changed his name to be called Israel, Gen 32:28.
I think Jesus died as a sin offering for everyone. In order to tap in to the redemption of Jesus's offering, one has to believe in the message of the cross as the power of God for salvation. Any one, any where, who is still alive can receive salvation for their souls according to the Bible.
Thus, Jesus effectively did in fact die for everyone otherwise there wouldn't be a sin offering available for everyone. What I think you're trying to say is that not everyone will accept the free gift of salvation and therefore not claim their eligibility to inherit eternal life.
Everyone is eligible for eternal life but clearly not all will receive it. That isn't the same thing as saying "Jesus did not die for everyone's sins."
It sounds like you're trying to suggest that not everyone who places their faith in Jesus as their Savior will receive the gift of forgiveness and eternal life as the Bible, we believe to be God's covenant with humanity, promises.
I venture to say that's why you're getting a lot of flak.
Thus, Jesus effectively did in fact die for everyone otherwise there wouldn't be a sin offering available for everyone. What I think you're trying to say is that not everyone will accept the free gift of salvation and therefore not claim their eligibility to inherit eternal life.
Everyone is eligible for eternal life but clearly not all will receive it. That isn't the same thing as saying "Jesus did not die for everyone's sins."
It sounds like you're trying to suggest that not everyone who places their faith in Jesus as their Savior will receive the gift of forgiveness and eternal life as the Bible, we believe to be God's covenant with humanity, promises.
I venture to say that's why you're getting a lot of flak.
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