THE LIE IN LORDSHIP SALVATION THEORY

[John146]

Faith is the proof one has saving faith.

My salvation is justified by the faith of Christ the moment I believed.

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

 

[John146]

Faith is the proof one has saving faith.

My faith waivers all the time, but Christ’s faith never waivers. That’s the faith that justifies the believer.

 

[Sudakar]

1 John 5:11 - And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

Faith is the confidence and assurance one indeed has the Son and eternal life. Works don't give confidence because no christian has ceased sinning.

 

[Sudakar]

You mean Jesus to the Jews and James to the twelve tribes? You know I rightly divide the word of truth by audience. Are you not ever selfish and bear bad fruit? Do you not ever live for self? Ever? I don’t always bear good fruit.

That's humility which God accepts.

 

[Sudakar]

My faith waivers all the time, but Christ’s faith never waivers. That’s the faith that justifies the believer.

Jesus is the Author (Beginner) of our faith. Acts 3:16.

 

[mailmandan]

So have you ceased sinning?

I never claimed to be sinless, yet there is a distinction between children of the devil and children of God in regards to practicing righteousness and not sin. (1 John 3:7-10)

 

[Sudakar]

I never claimed to be sinless, yet there is a distinction between children of the devil and children of God in regards to practicing righteousness and not sin. (1 John 3:7-10)

So are you saying your acts of sin prove you are a child of the devil?

 

[mailmandan]

You mean Jesus to the Jews and James to the twelve tribes? You know I rightly divide the word of truth by audience. Are you not ever selfish and bear bad fruit? Do you not ever live for self? Ever? I don’t always bear good fruit.

You take rightly dividing the word too far. So did Jesus mean that a good tree ONLY bears good fruit 100% of the time? Obviously, believers don't, so what did Jesus mean in Matthew 7:18 according to your dispensational view? What does James mean according to your dispensational view?

 

[Sudakar]

You take rightly dividing the word too far. So did Jesus mean that a good tree ONLY bears good fruit 100% of the time? Obviously, believers don't, so what did Jesus mean in Matthew 7:18 according to your dispensational view? What does James mean according to your dispensational view?

If you talk about bearing fruits also talk about Jesus commanding to be perfect as the Father.

 

[mailmandan]

So are you saying your acts of sin prove you are a child of the devil?

No. Did you read and understand 1 John 3:7-10?

 

[mailmandan]

If you talk about bearing fruits also talk about Jesus commanding to be perfect as the Father.

So you disregard bearing fruit? Did Jesus command us and expect us to as perfect as the Father? Is that how you interpret Matthew 5:48?

 

[Sudakar]

No. Did you read and understand 1 John 3:7-10?

What it says?

 

[Sudakar]

So you disregard bearing fruit? Did Jesus command us and expect us to as perfect as the Father? Is that how you interpret Matthew 5:48?

Do you disregard Mathew 5:48?

Do you lower God's standard of fruits in order to somehow prove you have saving faith?

 

[mailmandan]

What it says?

Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8 the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

 

[John146]

You take rightly dividing the word too far. So did Jesus mean that a good tree ONLY bears good fruit 100% of the time? Obviously, believers don't, so what did Jesus mean in Matthew 7:18 according to your dispensational view? What does James mean according to your dispensational view?

I believe both Matthew and James are speaking to Jews concerning the coming of the earthly kingdom preparing them to enter. In the tribulation and millennium there will be false prophets that bear evil fruit. Jesus, the good tree, will bring forth good fruit. I don’t see these Jews as trees bearing fruit, but the fruit itself.

By their fruits (false prophets) ye shall know them. Does that make sense?

 

[JohnRH]

You mean to say one's good works shows the genuineness of his saving faith? If yes, evil works shows the opposite which is absence of saving faith. In which case the person isn't saved in the first place!! That's works based salvation.

James is writing to "beloved brethren" (vs.5), who are already saved and eternally secure.
The only "saving" (vs.14) faith in the passage is the saving from temporal judgement mentioned in verse 13; not from hell.
Respecting the man in vile raiment, flawlessly keeping the whole law, offering your son, & helping spies are not the way of salvation from hell. They're the way of salvation from having judgement without mercy.

 

[Sudakar]

Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8 the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

Does it tell you to you disregard Mathew 5:48 and lower God's standard of fruits in order to somehow prove you have saving faith?

 

[mailmandan]

Do you disregard Mathew 5:48?

Do you lower God's standard of fruits in order to somehow prove you have saving faith?

Matthew 5:48 - Be Perfect (teleioi). The word comes from telo, end, goal, limit. Here it is the goal set before us, the absolute standard of our Heavenly Father. The word is used also for relative perfection as of adults compared with children. Absolute perfection, sinless, without fault or defect, flawless for us will not become a reality until we are present with the Lord, but that is the goal to strive for. Yet teleioi is also used to refer to the maturity of an adult.

I've seen people who teach sinless perfection also abuse and misuse the words of Jesus "go and sin no more" in John 8:11. Jesus was telling the woman to go and leave her life of sin, namely, she had been practicing adultery. Also, Jesus cannot compromise his perfect holy standard, so of course He is not going to say, "go and just sin a little bit."

 

[Sudakar]

Matthew 5:48 - Be Perfect (teleioi). The word comes from telo, end, goal, limit. Here it is the goal set before us, the absolute standard of our Heavenly Father. The word is used also for relative perfection as of adults compared with children. Absolute perfection, sinless, without fault or defect, flawless for us will not become a reality until we are present with the Lord, but that is the goal to strive for. Yet teleioi is also used to refer to the maturity of an adult.

I've seen people who teach sinless perfection also abuse and misuse the words of Jesus "go and sin no more" in John 8:11. Jesus was telling the woman to go and leave her life of sin, namely, she had been practicing adultery. Also, Jesus cannot compromise his perfect holy standard, so of course He is not going to say, "go and just sin a little bit."

"Absolute perfection, sinless, without fault or defect, flawless for us will not become a reality until we are present with the Lord, but that is the goal to strive for. Yet teleioi is also used to refer to the maturity of an adult."

You are eisegeting into Mathew 5:48 what Jesus neved stated to suit your sinfulness & prove you've saving faith.

 

[John146]

James is writing to "beloved brethren" (vs.5), who are already saved and eternally secure.
The only "saving" (vs.14) faith in the passage is the saving from temporal judgement mentioned in verse 13; not from hell.
Respecting the man in vile raiment, flawlessly keeping the whole law, offering your son, & helping spies are not the way of salvation from hell. They're the way of salvation from having judgement without mercy.

James is a Jew and is addressing his fellow brethren the twelve tribes. That would be the entire nation of Israel, not Christians from the twelve tribes. It is obvious that some had not received the word and their souls were not saved.

21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.