THE LIE IN LORDSHIP SALVATION THEORY

[Sudakar]

The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16) To "believe" the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

So what does trying to prove one has saving faith by his good works mean?

 

[mailmandan]

James 2:21: "Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?"

But Abraham was considered righteous even before he offered his son on the altar.

I never stated any different. In James 2:21, we notice that James did not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22.

The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to account him as righteous, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the "sense" in which Abraham was "justified by works." He was shown to be righteous.

James is not using the term "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).

 

[mailmandan]

So what does trying to prove one has saving faith by his good works mean?

We show our faith by our works (James 2:18) but we do not establish it.

 

[Sudakar]

I never stated any different. In James 2:21, we notice that James did not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22.

The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to account him as righteous, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the "sense" in which Abraham was "justified by works." He was shown to be righteous.

James is not using the term "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).

You mean to say one's good works shows the genuineness of his saving faith? If yes, evil works shows the opposite which is absence of saving faith. In which case the person isn't saved in the first place!! That's works based salvation.

 

[Sudakar]

We show our faith by our works (James 2:18) but we do not establish it.

If your claim is true, then evil works show lack of faith which eventually means the person isn't saved!

 

[mailmandan]

You mean to say one's good works shows the genuineness of his saving faith? If yes, evil works shows the opposite which is absence of saving faith. In which case the person isn't saved in the first place!! That's works based salvation.

Works based salvation is salvation by faith + works. Man is saved by grace through faith, not works. Every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.

 

[John146]

So you don't have the assurance you are saved?

Sure I do, Scripture tells me. Scripture is more sure than relying on any works of proof.

 

[Sudakar]

Works based salvation is salvation by faith + works. Man is saved by grace through faith, not works. Every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.

Bearing fruit is being perfect as the Father is perfect. No christian has ever borne that fruit. Only Christ has. So faith in Christ alone is the proof one has saving faith.

 

[preacher4truth]

The troll @Sudakar is getting fat.

 

[Sudakar]

Works based salvation is salvation by faith + works. Man is saved by grace through faith, not works. Every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.

Anything less than perfect is not partially perfect but imperfect (James 2:10).

 

[John146]

Works based salvation is salvation by faith + works. Man is saved by grace through faith, not works. Every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.

I’m saved by the shed blood of Christ yet I bear bad rotten selfish fruit often. Works neither saves you or proves one is saved. Yes?

 

[Sudakar]

Sure I do, Scripture tells me. Scripture is more sure than relying on any works of proof.

How does scripture give you assurance?

 

[Sudakar]

Sure I do, Scripture tells me. Scripture is more sure than relying on any works of proof.

You said: Only the Lord knows who are tru saved by the seal of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Sudakar]

The troll @Sudakar is getting fat.

The troll @ preacher4truthis getting fat in self righteousness.

 

[mailmandan]

I’m saved by the shed blood of Christ yet I bear bad rotten selfish fruit often. Works neither saves you or proves one is saved. Yes?

So a good tree continuously bears rotten, selfish fruit and we don't show our faith by our works at all? (Matthew 7:17; James 2:18) Is that what you are saying? Is that what Jesus and James said?

 

[John146]

You said: Only the Lord knows who are tru saved by the seal of the Holy Spirit.

I was speaking of others. Of course I know I am saved by what Scripture states about those who believe the gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[Sudakar]

I’m saved by the shed blood of Christ yet I bear bad rotten selfish fruit often. Works neither saves you or proves one is saved. Yes?

Faith is the proof one has saving faith.

 

[mailmandan]

How does scripture give you assurance?

1 John 5:11 - And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

 

[Sudakar]

So a good tree continuously bears rotten, selfish fruit and we don't show our faith by our works at all? (Matthew 7:17; James 2:18) Is that what you are saying? Is that what Jesus and James said?

So have you ceased sinning?

 

[John146]

So a good tree continuously bears rotten, selfish fruit and we don't show our faith by our works at all? (Matthew 7:17; James 2:18) Is that what you are saying? Is that what Jesus and James said?

You mean Jesus to the Jews and James to the twelve tribes? You know I rightly divide the word of truth by audience. Are you not ever selfish and bear bad fruit? Do you not ever live for self? Ever? I don’t always bear good fruit.