"Not by works" - false!

[jackrosie]

None of us should be against eachother, nor do I believe that any of us are

I just believe that, along with believing in Christ, we should keep God's commandments.

For some reason some people seem to have been offended by me saying this, as if they think Christians cannot sin, or that Christians can behave as they please.

A born again has been forgiven of their sin..through grace..

I have replied to you already 🙄

Can you point me to the number of your post?...I can't find your reply.

 

[DBurrage]

I was trying to show you that your understanding is questionable. I agree, I did not prove it. I can't prove you wrong as
You have not clarified how you define 'we deliberately/knowingly continue in sin" means in regard to "Jesus' sacrifice will NOT cover these sins". Any particular sins, any number of times, must it be knowingly ???? Please quantify.

So, I can't use scripture to disprove a ambiguous statement. With clarification, I may even agree with you.

Hebrews 10:26
"Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins"

Because of the widespread belief that we ONLY need to believe in Jesus to be saved, this verse is interpreted by various sources to mean only apostasy.

In studying the Bible, God hasn't said this to me however.
God has said to me that Christians cannot just behave as they please, but they should behave in a way that emulates Christ.

I feel that you're asking me for absolute proof that my interpretation is the correct interpretation.
I cannot provide you with absolute proof.
I'm just telling you what God has conveyed to me.

 

[jackrosie]

After one is born again works follow.

Faith without works is dead.

 

[EleventhHour]

if my belief lined up perfect with aleister crowley i wouldnt want to discuss it either.

This is a disgusting thing to state.

 

[DBurrage]

A born again has been forgiven of their sin..through grace..



Can you point me to the number of your post?...I can't find your reply.

After one is born again works follow.

Faith without works is dead.

Yes, faith without works is dead.

But nobody here is arguing that we are justified by works, like those under the Mosaic law.

You've asked me about the ten commandments...
Why do you want me to give you information you should already know?
Are you trying to undermine my message?
Are you attempting to entrap me, or to make me appear foolish?
Why would you do that?

Let me ask you this:
Do you think Christians can just behave as they please?

 

[mailmandan]

Are you saying that Christians do not need to keep God's commandments?

Do you believe that we are saved by grace through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9) or based on the merits of keeping God’s commandments?

 

[oyster67]

Can you point me to the number of your post?...I can't find your reply.

Post #100.

 

[DBurrage]

Do you believe that we are saved by grace through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9) or based on the merits of keeping God’s commandments?

We are reconciled with God through our faith in Jesus Christ, AND we have a duty to keep God's commandments.
If we continue to deliberately sin after receiving grace, Jesus' blood will not cover these sins:

Hebrews 10:26
"Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins".

Do you think that Christians can behave as they wish, or that they should behave in a way that tries to emulate Christ?

 

[mailmandan]

This is salvation by works ^^^^^^^^
Quid Pro Quo

Quid Pro Quo is not Grace

For him to say that believing in Jesus for salvation is “incomplete” is to say that Christ’s finished work of redemption is “incomplete” to save us because Christ’s finished work of redemption is the object of our belief/faith in obtaining salvation. Christ’s finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. No supplements needed. (Romans 3:24-28)

 

[EleventhHour]

For him to say that believing in Jesus for salvation is “incomplete” is to say that Christ’s finished work of redemption is “incomplete” to save us because Christ’s finished work of redemption is the object of our belief/faith in obtaining salvation. Christ’s finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. No supplements needed. (Romans 3:24-28)

Exactly!!

 

[DBurrage]

For him to say that believing in Jesus for salvation is “incomplete” is to say that Christ’s finished work of redemption is “incomplete” to save us because Christ’s finished work of redemption is the object of our belief/faith in obtaining salvation. Christ’s finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. No supplements needed. (Romans 3:24-28)

I'm not saying that Christ's work isn't enough, I'm saying that we have a duty to keep God's commandments.
If we continue to sin after receiving grace, Jesus' sacrifice will not cover these sins:

Hebrews 10:26
"Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins".

 

[oyster67]

We need to abide in the vine, but I do not count this as work. I do not count loving God and loving others as work.

 

[mailmandan]

Hebrews 10:26 only states that the sacrifice no longer remains for apostates (people that have heard the gospel and said they believe and then fall) . There is not other implication regards to any other sin. You, IMO, believe the verse is about all sin and extrapolate your doctrine from there; the four commentators disagree with you.

Amen! In Hebrews 10:26, to "sin willfully" in the Greek carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is CONTINUOUS ACTION - A MATTER OF PRACTICE.

Now we don't walk along our daily life and accidentally fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows continuous action, which is a matter of practice.

The unrighteous practice sin - (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21) not the righteous, who are born of God - (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9).

 

[jackrosie]

Yes, faith without works is dead.

But nobody here is arguing that we are justified by works, like those under the Mosaic law.

You've asked me about the ten commandments...
Why do you want me to give you information you should already know?
Are you trying to undermine my message?
Are you attempting to entrap me, or to make me appear foolish?
Why would you do that?

Let me ask you this:
Do you think Christians can just behave as they please?

No I am not undermining your message..

In answer to your question....I don't believe a born again can behave as they please.....what I do believe is...once I became born again....my walk began with the Lord.....I can't love my neighbour as myself...so I ask him for his strength to help me.....I can't do anything in my own strength....it must be in God's strength....as I rely on him...he will change me in his timing...and he does.

 

[mailmandan]

I'm not saying that Christ's work isn't enough, I'm saying that we have a duty to keep God's commandments.
If we continue to sin after receiving grace, Jesus' sacrifice will not cover these sins:

Hebrews 10:26
"Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins".

The sinning is deliberately rejecting Christ after receiving the knowledge of the truth. (vs. 26) Such people draw back to perdition and do not believe to the saving of the soul. (vs. 39)

 

[EleventhHour]

I'm not saying that Christ's work isn't enough, I'm saying that we have a duty to keep God's commandments.
If we continue to sin after receiving grace, Jesus' sacrifice will not cover these sins:

Hebrews 10:26
"Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins".

If we continue to sin after receiving grace, Jesus' sacrifice will not cover these sins:

The "Doctrine of Selective Coverage"

This doctrine would be false

 

[DBurrage]

Amen! In Hebrews 10:26, to "sin willfully" in the Greek carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is CONTINUOUS ACTION - A MATTER OF PRACTICE.

Now we don't walk along our daily life and accidentally fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows continuous action, which is a matter of practice.

The unrighteous practice sin - (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21) not the righteous, who are born of God - (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9).

You've agreed with another user, who said that Hebrews 10:26 only refers to apostasy.

I believe that it has been interpreted this way due to the widely held belief that all we need is faith in Jesus to be saved.
Yes, we are saved in our faith in Christ, but Jesus repeatedly told people to stop sinning.

In reading the Bible, God has not communicated to me that Hebrews 10:26 only means apostasy.
God has told me that we are not perfect just because we have decided to follow Jesus, and that we still sin.
God has told me that deliberately sinning, any sin, will not be covered by Jesus' blood.

 

[azamzimtoti]

Paul still followed the law

Acts 21:24
take these men and purify yourself along with them and pay their expenses, so that they may shave their heads. Thus all will know that there is nothing in what they have been told about you, but that you yourself also live in observance of the law.

This only happened because he was between a rock and hard place, James and his thousands of Jews zealous for the law that you are trying to defend would have stoned him and those with him.

(Acts 21:20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law)


(1 Cor 9:20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law)

(1 Cor 9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.)

(1 Cor 9:22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.)

 

[gb9]

I'm not saying that Christ's work isn't enough, I'm saying that we have a duty to keep God's commandments.
If we continue to sin after receiving grace, Jesus' sacrifice will not cover these sins:

Hebrews 10:26
"Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins".

you accused me of trying to undermine your message.

well, when you say stuff like this, refuse to answer questions, you undermine your own message.

you have no authority nor will you even mention how many times you read the Bible, so your lecturing is invalid.

 

[DBurrage]

No I am not undermining your message..

In answer to your question....I don't believe a born again can behave as they please.....what I do believe is...once I became born again....my walk began with the Lord.....I can't love my neighbour as myself...so I ask him for his strength to help me.....I can't do anything in my own strength....it must be in God's strength....as I rely on him...he will change me in his timing...and he does.

With all due respect, this sounds like terminological inexactitude and, frankly, fluffy nonsense.

Of course it's difficult not to sin, as we are not perfect.
That's not to say that we should not try, or that we should not want to sin.

Are you saying that we shouldn't make a conscious effort to love our neighbor as ourselves, for instance?