THE LIE IN LORDSHIP SALVATION THEORY

[kaylagrl]

Doing works is different from trusting in good works to prove your saving faith.

Re-read what I said...

 

[kaylagrl]

Trusting in your works to prove you have saving faith is flesh and self. Trusting in the grace of God given through Christ's perfect works to prove I have saving faith is Spirit.

Where did I ever state that works save?

 

[DorothyMae]

Lordship salvation theory teaches the following: That one's salvation is CONDITIONAL upon the life we live. It states:

"Submission to the will of God, to Christ’s lordship, and to the guiding of the Spirit is an essential, not an optional, part of saving faith" (EPHESIANS, p. 249).

"Salvation isn't the result of an intellectual exercise. It comes from a life lived in obedience and service to Christ as revealed in the Scripture; it's the fruit of actions, not intentions. There's no room for passive spectators: words without actions are empty and futile...The life we live, not the words we speak, determines our eternal destiny" (Hard to Believe, p. 93).

The Word of God calls it a lie in Romans 4:5... "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."

Do you consider refusing to do what is wrong in the eyes of God a work?

 

[DorothyMae]

Lordship salvation theory teaches the following: That one's salvation is CONDITIONAL upon the life we live. It states:

"Submission to the will of God, to Christ’s lordship, and to the guiding of the Spirit is an essential, not an optional, part of saving faith" (EPHESIANS, p. 249).

"Salvation isn't the result of an intellectual exercise. It comes from a life lived in obedience and service to Christ as revealed in the Scripture; it's the fruit of actions, not intentions. There's no room for passive spectators: words without actions are empty and futile...The life we live, not the words we speak, determines our eternal destiny" (Hard to Believe, p. 93).

The Word of God calls it a lie in Romans 4:5... "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."

Another question, how do you deal with the words of Jesus where he says if we don’t forgive others, our sins will not be forgiven? Doesn’t that make forgiveness of sins conditional? Is forgiving others a “work” that we needn’t do to be forgiven in your theology?

 

[Sudakar]

Have you read the whole thread?



@Sudakar I am sincerely confused. You remind me of another poster that it's almost like he doesn't read anything anyone posts and just is trying to draw out discussion according to predetermined lines that he has set and on the rare occasion that someone posts along the lines of what he is looking for he will interact at least marginally. I am grateful that at least one time I was able to interact.

I'm open to a discussion based off what I've posted, as I have tried to interact based off what you have posted and you just put the same text in replies to multiple people which looks like baiting when it has almost nothing to do with what they said (that I can tell).
If you assume someone else to be in error about something, of what utility is it to be incredibly couched in your replies when they seem to have no idea what you are getting at?

Assuming you were in the right here, that would be like punishing a child without them even knowing what they did, which would be abusive.

I am trying to imagine a scenario where a conversation would ever go like what I have seen here in person on this thread. I can't think of one. It is courteous to explain further what is meant when someone asks for clarification.

If English isn't your primary language, consider using a translate app on people's posts as while I have gained some utility in working out my own salvation in this thread, that was a byproduct and there are many other threads to this effect.

So with that I bid you adieu. If you reply to me in the future and it has nothing to do with the message, I will most likely just ignore it. I feel conviction/guilt (not sure at this point as I don't do it anymore) when I am drawing energy out of people for the sake of it. Hopefully this is not your goal. I will continue to pay attention, mayhaps you realize something useful and I can glean further.

Avoid begging the question.

 

[Sudakar]

Have you read the whole thread?



@Sudakar I am sincerely confused. You remind me of another poster that it's almost like he doesn't read anything anyone posts and just is trying to draw out discussion according to predetermined lines that he has set and on the rare occasion that someone posts along the lines of what he is looking for he will interact at least marginally. I am grateful that at least one time I was able to interact.

I'm open to a discussion based off what I've posted, as I have tried to interact based off what you have posted and you just put the same text in replies to multiple people which looks like baiting when it has almost nothing to do with what they said (that I can tell).
If you assume someone else to be in error about something, of what utility is it to be incredibly couched in your replies when they seem to have no idea what you are getting at?

Assuming you were in the right here, that would be like punishing a child without them even knowing what they did, which would be abusive.

I am trying to imagine a scenario where a conversation would ever go like what I have seen here in person on this thread. I can't think of one. It is courteous to explain further what is meant when someone asks for clarification.

If English isn't your primary language, consider using a translate app on people's posts as while I have gained some utility in working out my own salvation in this thread, that was a byproduct and there are many other threads to this effect.

So with that I bid you adieu. If you reply to me in the future and it has nothing to do with the message, I will most likely just ignore it. I feel conviction/guilt (not sure at this point as I don't do it anymore) when I am drawing energy out of people for the sake of it. Hopefully this is not your goal. I will continue to pay attention, mayhaps you realize something useful and I can glean further.

WHY DO LORDSHIP SALVATIONISTS KEEP REPEATING, "TRUE SALVATION IS ACCOMPANIED BY GOOD WORKS"?
They assume wrongly that only true salvation & saving faith is accompanied by good works. But the fact is, even the unsaved do great good works right from nursing their babies to philanthropy. Thus good works has nothing to do with true salvation or saving faith.
So their statement, "True salvation is accompanied by good works" really means "None has saving faith without good works". This is nothing but pure "works based salvation" heresy presented in an unidentifiable manner & is a tool to enslave & manipulate church-goers to buy their books, pay offerings etc.

 

[Sudakar]

You should save your breath.

WHY DO LORDSHIP SALVATIONISTS KEEP REPEATING, "TRUE SALVATION IS ACCOMPANIED BY GOOD WORKS"?
They assume wrongly that only true salvation & saving faith is accompanied by good works. But the fact is, even the unsaved do great good works right from nursing their babies to philanthropy. Thus good works has nothing to do with true salvation or saving faith.
So their statement, "True salvation is accompanied by good works" really means "None has saving faith without good works". This is nothing but pure "works based salvation" heresy presented in an unidentifiable manner & is a tool to enslave & manipulate church-goers to buy their books, pay offerings etc.

 

[Sudakar]

Rubbish. Anyone who receives Jesus Messiah receives Him for Who He actually is.....LORD.
Whether they believe it or not or understand it or not is altogether a different matter.

You are teaching the "works based salvation" heresy.

 

[Sudakar]

So let's get this straight:
-you are of yourself perfect in your faith
-you have appropriated to yourself perfect physical healing because you have perfect faith
-you do not know anyone personally who is likewise so endowed, and nobody on this message board is so endowed either.

Does that sound about right?

This thread isn't about physical healing. Don't digress.

 

[Sudakar]

If you read the Word there is no confusion. Say it with me "hand in glove".

Your hand in glove is called "works based salvation". Are you a Pelagian?

 

[Sudakar]

Do you consider refusing to do what is wrong in the eyes of God a work?

WHY DO LORDSHIP SALVATIONISTS KEEP REPEATING, "TRUE SALVATION IS ACCOMPANIED BY GOOD WORKS"?
They assume wrongly that only true salvation & saving faith is accompanied by good works. But the fact is, even the unsaved do great good works right from nursing their babies to philanthropy. Thus good works has nothing to do with true salvation or saving faith.
So their statement, "True salvation is accompanied by good works" really means "None has saving faith without good works". This is nothing but pure "works based salvation" heresy presented in an unidentifiable manner & is a tool to enslave & manipulate church-goers to buy their books, pay offerings etc.

 

[Sudakar]

Another question, how do you deal with the words of Jesus where he says if we don’t forgive others, our sins will not be forgiven? Doesn’t that make forgiveness of sins conditional? Is forgiving others a “work” that we needn’t do to be forgiven in your theology?

Ephesians 4:32: "in Christ God forgave you". In Christ God has forgiven you 2020 years back on the cross.

 

[Sudakar]

Where did I ever state that works save?

Your claim 1: Works prove saving faith.
Your claim 2: Saving faith saves.
Your conclusion: Lack of works means no salvation.

Thus you preach the heresy of works based salvation but you pretend to be teacher of grace.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Thus you preach the heresy of works based salvation but you pretend to be teacher of grace.

You still don't get it. If you were in school you would get an F. You were supposed to repent of your false ideas, and here you are still on the same track.

 

[Sudakar]

You still don't get it. If you were in school you would get an F. You were supposed to repent of your false ideas, and here you are still on the same track.

Your claim 1: Works prove saving faith.
Your claim 2: Saving faith saves.
Your conclusion: Lack of works means no salvation.

Thus you preach the heresy of works based salvation but you pretend to be teacher of grace.

Your A is school is F before God. Repent from pride.

 

[Nehemiah6]

This is nothing but pure "works based salvation" heresy presented in an unidentifiable manner & is a tool to enslave & manipulate church-goers to buy their books, pay offerings etc.

Do you want the truth or not?
Do you even know the meaning of "works based salvation"?
Do you even know the meaning of salvation itself?
Do you know the meaning of heresy?

 

[Sudakar]

Do you want the truth or not?
Do you even know the meaning of "works based salvation"?
Do you even know the meaning of salvation itself?
Do you know the meaning of heresy?

Your misery is you seem to know nothing but begging the question and yelling.

 

[cv5]

You are teaching the "works based salvation" heresy.

You have absolutely no idea whatsoever of what you're talking about.

 

[cv5]

This thread isn't about physical healing. Don't digress.

Don't avoid what you formerly proclaimed, we are all witnesses to it. My questions still stand, though they will never be answered, just dodged.

 

[cv5]

Ok, so let me see if I am getting this right about your character Sudakar, you claim to prove your salvation by faith alone but apparently everyone else is by works, you claim to be perfect and sinless but we are all stupid sinful hypocrites. I mean honestly you cannot possibly be that blind no christian could possibly be this arrogant and judgemental and oblivious to their own faults.
I am genuinely confused as to why you are here, I mean seriously are you here to troll and play mind games to teach to expose ?

This person's motivation is pride obviously. He berates others and calls them abject failures and exalts himself in his supposedly perfections continuously nonstop ad nauseam