False teachers, is it our duty to rebuke them?

[DBurrage]

The gift of "Discernment" specifically is a tool for judgement. Not to be used in the sense of condemning others, but in the sense of knowing what is being taught aligns with God. I've heard some call it a "gut feeling" or that something "doesn't add up" after having a discussion with someone or hearing a sermon that is not Scripturally sound. If you walk with God, and you are gifted with Discernment, you cannot help but to judge. Obviously, Discerning is not sinning. God would not give us such a gift if otherwise.

Agree.

I won't go as far as to say that I have some kind of Godly gift, but I think we all have the ability to discern whether what somebody is preaching correlates with truth or not.

Whether this is the case of not, we all have a responsibility to read the Bible and check what is being taught.

There are very many modern Christians that don't do this.
These types of Christians sir there in a service listening intently as if God himself is speaking directly to them.
Always question, humans are (very) fallible.

 

[DBurrage]

Correct. Now that we know how we're seeing the term, I think we can proceed profitably.


In my own circle, personally and privately, having prayed and done my homework first. That obviously includes knowing the relevant Scripture, but it also means considering the context and intent of the teaching, and the intended audience. A seminary class where students are expected to know the material and interact with the teacher is vastly different than a junior-high class where (these days) very few students would be equipped to assess the scriptural validity of the teaching.

Given appropriate preparation on my part, I would make an appointment, present their material that I considered unacceptable, present my position, and support it with Scripture. Then I would give them an opportunity to respond, with time to prepare as appropriate.

So between us we are in agreement in terms of how we should

1. Try to lead people being taught by false teachers to the right path, and

2. How we should challenge false teachers directly.

But we now need to encourage Christians to read their Bible more and to check what they are being taught against the Bible as many Christians are simply lazy and don't do this.

Plus, how do we give Christians the confidence to confidently question their teacher directly?
Many so called teachers, particularly in these new 'mega-churches', surround themselves with a staffing team and establish a hierarchy that, for some Christians, may make it intimidating to challenge them.

 

[preacher4truth]

I just read through Jude and the section in 2 Timothy you brought up. I wondered how it is that we "contend for the faith", "correct", "rebuke", "reprove error in person's teachings and lives".

After pointing out that false teachers turn the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ (Jude 1:4), and describing the activities of these false teachers, Jude tells us:

Jude 1:

20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:

23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.


It appears that we are to:

1) build ourselves up in faith, pray, keep ourselves in the love of God, look for mercy

2) have compassion on those who fall into the hands of false teachers

3) some we may have to pull from the fire



As far as the section in 2 Timothy 4, we really need to go back to 2 Tim 3 where we are told that all Scripture God breathed and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction ... that the man of God may be fully equipped unto all good works (2 Tim 3:16-17). Then ...

2 Timothy 4:

2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.


It appears to me that in both Jude and Timothy, we are to help those who have fallen into the hands of the false teachers ... reach out to them and bring them back to the truth of God's Word.

And 2 Tim 2:4 tells us to be instant in season, out of season ... which is pretty much all the time. Reminds me of that verse in Peter where we are told to be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear (1 Peter 3:15).

Yes, I’m glad you read those things and looked them over, many will not take the time to do so. Kudos to you.

I also mentioned 2 Timothy 3:16ff as well.

We must not forget the polemical side, there is good reason Paul instructs in both 2 Timothy 3 & 4 implementing this approach, even an actual chiding of those addressed. Paul, some apostles, prophets and of course Christ did this themselves. Stephen practiced such an approach and suffered martyrdom for it; Acts 6:8-7:60. It is of note he was empowered by the Spirit in his message; Acts 6:10, 7:55.

There are both positive and negative aspects to the biblical approach in handling these issues.

 

[breno785au]

The gift of "Discernment" specifically is a tool for judgement. Not to be used in the sense of condemning others, but in the sense of knowing what is being taught aligns with God. I've heard some call it a "gut feeling" or that something "doesn't add up" after having a discussion with someone or hearing a sermon that is not Scripturally sound. If you walk with God, and you are gifted with Discernment, you cannot help but to judge. Obviously, Discerning is not sinning. God would not give us such a gift if otherwise.

This gift of discernment is one that I have had from the beginning with my walk with God. For many years, I didn't realise that's what was happening, I subconsciously thought I was criticising. But then my wife started noticed and constantly said, you're discerning when I would tell her about certain feelings or things that would happen which as caused me to take it more seriously and try to understand it and what to do when I am discerning.
It's not just for false teaching, you can look at a person for a second and know what's going on. I've heard people prophesying at gatherings speaking words that they thought they were God's, but they weren't.
It's a difficult gift to handle (I find) because it's based on very little, if no evidence of something going on behind the scenes with someone but then you find out later there was.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

If and when it is possible.

 

[UnoiAmarah]

The reason I'm starting this particular thread is because I want to know if the Christian community will rise with a similar zeal in refuting other false teachers and heathens...

So is a false teacher someone who has a different interpretation of the scriptures than the one you hold? Then are the heathens the ones who teach the interpretation you agree with? (Just asking....)

I think that someone who holds a different interpretation than yours but has the same zeal to refute others will agree with the interpretation you cited. As far as myself, I merely share the testimony that I have received from the scriptures that if A=B then B=A without exception.

So I don't refute teachers since it is written And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us. But actually engage them since I heard, Beloved, believe not every word, but try their words whether they are of truth because the simple believe every word and if one presumes to speak a word in the name of the LORD is deceived, the LORD has deceived that teacher.

 

[breno785au]

Consider Paul's words:

But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner— not even to eat with such a person. For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.”
I Corinthians 5:11‭-‬13 NKJV

 

[DBurrage]

So is a false teacher someone who has a different interpretation of the scriptures than the one you hold? Then are the heathens the ones who teach the interpretation you agree with? I think that someone who holds a different interpretation than yours but has the same zeal to refute others will agree with the interpretation you cited.

As far as myself, I merely share the testimony that I have received from the scriptures that if A=B then B=A without exception. So I don't refute teachers since it is written And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us. But actually engage them since I heard, Beloved, believe not every word, but try their words whether they are of truth because the simple believe every word and if one presumes to speak in the name of the LORD is deceived, the LORD has deceived that teacher.

I know there are a few pages, but please read the thread.
Doing so will answer the points you make as your points have already been discussed.

As regards to interpretations, the Bible teaches us one truth.
Sure, God can reach into our own lives and our own situations to bring us to that truth, but it is one truth, not different standards and truths for each one of us.

2 Peter 1:20
"Knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation".

 

[DBurrage]

Consider Paul's words:

But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner— not even to eat with such a person. For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.”
I Corinthians 5:11‭-‬13 NKJV

I have been through this already with somebody else.

Confronting sin, which we have a Biblical duty to do,bis not the same as judging people on their sin.

Are you suggesting that we should not confront other Christians when they sin?

https://www.openbible.info/topics/confronting_sins

 

[breno785au]

I have been through this already with somebody else.

Confronting sin, which we have a Biblical duty to do,bis not the same as judging people on their sin.

Are you suggesting that we should not confront other Christians when they sin?

https://www.openbible.info/topics/confronting_sins

Paul is saying in that scripture very clearly to confront it. Why would I think we shouldn't?

 

[DBurrage]

Paul is saying in that scripture very clearly to confront it. Why would I think we shouldn't?

Sorry, misinterpreted you

 

[biker]

Agree.

I won't go as far as to say that I have some kind of Godly gift, but I think we all have the ability to discern whether what somebody is preaching correlates with truth or not.

Whether this is the case of not, we all have a responsibility to read the Bible and check what is being taught.

There are very many modern Christians that don't do this.
These types of Christians sir there in a service listening intently as if God himself is speaking directly to them.
Always question, humans are (very) fallible.

AMEN!

 

[biker]

This gift of discernment is one that I have had from the beginning with my walk with God. For many years, I didn't realise that's what was happening, I subconsciously thought I was criticising. But then my wife started noticed and constantly said, you're discerning when I would tell her about certain feelings or things that would happen which as caused me to take it more seriously and try to understand it and what to do when I am discerning.
It's not just for false teaching, you can look at a person for a second and know what's going on. I've heard people prophesying at gatherings speaking words that they thought they were God's, but they weren't.
It's a difficult gift to handle (I find) because it's based on very little, if no evidence of something going on behind the scenes with someone but then you find out later there was.

Amen Brother!

I have felt those who are blessed with Discernment carry a bigger responsibility from God. Not everyone is blessed with it. But those of us who are blessed with it, God intended for it to be used by us in all circumstances. I have also noticed that those with Discernment generally have a sense of boldness about them. They go hand in hand together.

 

[biker]

I just read through Jude and the section in 2 Timothy you brought up. I wondered how it is that we "contend for the faith", "correct", "rebuke", "reprove error in person's teachings and lives".

After pointing out that false teachers turn the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ (Jude 1:4), and describing the activities of these false teachers, Jude tells us:

Jude 1:

20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:

23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.


It appears that we are to:

1) build ourselves up in faith, pray, keep ourselves in the love of God, look for mercy

2) have compassion on those who fall into the hands of false teachers

3) some we may have to pull from the fire



As far as the section in 2 Timothy 4, we really need to go back to 2 Tim 3 where we are told that all Scripture God breathed and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction ... that the man of God may be fully equipped unto all good works (2 Tim 3:16-17). Then ...

2 Timothy 4:

2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.


It appears to me that in both Jude and Timothy, we are to help those who have fallen into the hands of the false teachers ... reach out to them and bring them back to the truth of God's Word.

And 2 Tim 2:4 tells us to be instant in season, out of season ... which is pretty much all the time. Reminds me of that verse in Peter where we are told to be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear (1 Peter 3:15).

This is an amazing Scripture:
Jude 1:

20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

Praying in the Holy Ghost!

 

[reneweddaybyday]

You seem to be arguing FOR challenging false teaching, not against it.

Yes … the best challenge against false teaching is to know the truth so we can recognize when someone is going off the rails … not only so we don’t go in the ditch with them, but so that we can help others so they don’t fall in the ditch.


1 Timothy 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

We must not forget the polemical side, there is good reason Paul instructs in both 2 Timothy 3 & 4 implementing this approach, even an actual chiding of those addressed. Paul, some apostles, prophets and of course Christ did this themselves. Stephen practiced such an approach and suffered martyrdom for it; Acts 6:8-7:60. It is of note he was empowered by the Spirit in his message; Acts 6:10, 7:55.

There are both positive and negative aspects to the biblical approach in handling these issues.

True … we have got really great examples in Scripture of men of God who spoke truth.

Reading the gospels and how Jesus treated people … He was so loving and kind to the regular folks and yet very harsh to the scribes, pharisees, chief priests, etc. (those who were in authority yet not teaching God’s Word properly).

But God's Word has always been harsh toward those who claim to speak God's Word but in reality they teach man's word.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

But actually engage them since I heard, Beloved, believe not every word, but try their words whether they are of truth because the simple believe every word and if one presumes to speak a word in the name of the LORD is deceived, the LORD has deceived that teacher.

Please explain your statement "the LORD has deceived that teacher".

Are you saying that God deliberately deceives the deceived teachers of His Word?

Apologies if I did not correctly understand your statement.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

This is an amazing Scripture:
Jude 1:

20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

Praying in the Holy Ghost!

 

[Nehemiah6]

My question was should we as Christians do more to counter these organisations?

It is generally a total waste of time to counter organization which have false teachings. On the other hand, false teachings can be refuted on a public forum such as this.

 

[DBurrage]

It is generally a total waste of time to counter organization which have false teachings. On the other hand, false teachings can be refuted on a public forum such as this.

Agree.
Countering false teachings on an forum such as this could 'save' Christians from a false teacher.

I do think that we don't do enough to counter false teachings, though.

In my thread about Westboro Baptist Church, I was aggressively attacked, even accused of being a member.
However with other false teachers (Hillsong, C3, Catholic 'church', etc) we don't do enough to counter these.