WHAT IS MOST URGENT?

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S

Sudakar

Banned
#1
Sep 14, 2019
1,336
50
48
#1
What do lordship Salvationists claim?

Claim 1: Works prove saving faith.
Claim 2: Saving faith saves.
Their conclusion: Lack of works means one is not saved.

Thus lordship salvation preaches the heresy of works based salvation but their teachers pretend to be teachers of grace.

They distort the true gospel of grace and millions of church-goers are deceived.

So let's preach the true gospel to those church-goers who haven't heard the true gospel in order for them to be saved. THIS IS MOST URGENT.

You may post your opinions.
 
S

Sudakar

Banned
#2
Sep 14, 2019
1,336
50
48
#2
Mark 16:15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#3
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#3
What is heresy is preaching that after you take your sins to Christ and you are forgiven, cleansed of sin, you can still love a certain sin so much that you intend to commit that sin again and again.

It is impossible for a human make himself so sin free that he can create salvation for himself, it is only Christ that can do that with what Christ did on the cross. But to teach that a person saved thru Christ can choose sin is wrong. Teaching something so wrong is very serious, and justice will be served.
 
S

Sudakar

Banned
#4
Sep 14, 2019
1,336
50
48
#4
Blik said:
What is heresy is preaching that after you take your sins to Christ and you are forgiven, cleansed of sin, you can still love a certain sin so much that you intend to commit that sin again and again.

It is impossible for a human make himself so sin free that he can create salvation for himself, it is only Christ that can do that with what Christ did on the cross. But to teach that a person saved thru Christ can choose sin is wrong. Teaching something so wrong is very serious, and justice will be served.
Click to expand...
So have you ceased sinning and complied with mathew 5:48?
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#5
Jul 2, 2011
21,465
6,722
113
#5
Sudakar said:
So have you ceased sinning and complied with mathew 5:48?
Click to expand...
Those who know take your quote with all of the scripture and understand by the Holy Spirit. This cannot be conveyed into an intellectual debate with a non-believer, and the understanding is true knowledge never what is called so. in error.
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#6
Sep 4, 2013
30,747
6,913
113
#6
To understand Matthew 5:48, look into the Scripture in context........ Matthew Henry said this:

Commentary on Matthew 5:43-48
(Read Matthew 5:43-48)
The Jewish teachers by "neighbour" understood only those who were of their own country, nation, and religion, whom they were pleased to look upon as their friends. The Lord Jesus teaches that we must do all the real kindness we can to all, especially to their souls. We must pray for them. While many will render good for good, we must render good for evil; and this will speak a nobler principle than most men act by. Others salute their brethren, and embrace those of their own party, and way, and opinion, but we must not so confine our respect. It is the duty of Christians to desire, and aim at, and press towards perfection in grace and holiness. And therein we must study to conform ourselves to the example of our heavenly Father, 1 Peter 1:15,16. Surely more is to be expected from the followers of Christ than from others; surely more will be found in them than in others. Let us beg of God to enable us to prove ourselves his children.
 
M

Micaiah-imla

Banned
#7
Feb 29, 2020
1,563
571
113
#7
Sudakar said:
What do lordship Salvationists claim?

Claim 1: Works prove saving faith.
Claim 2: Saving faith saves.
Their conclusion: Lack of works means one is not saved.

Thus lordship salvation preaches the heresy of works based salvation but their teachers pretend to be teachers of grace.

They distort the true gospel of grace and millions of church-goers are deceived.

So let's preach the true gospel to those church-goers who haven't heard the true gospel in order for them to be saved. THIS IS MOST URGENT.

You may post your opinions.
Click to expand...
An unbeliever becomes a born-again saint only by believing the gospel.

Then the believer is judged in this manner when he/she sins:

Paul said the following to the saints at Corinth, "And lest...I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed...Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves" (2 Corinthians 12:21, 13:5).

Prove by what? By how you have been living.

This is what the Bible teaches.
 
S

Sudakar

Banned
#8
Sep 14, 2019
1,336
50
48
#8
JaumeJ said:
Those who know take your quote with all of the scripture and understand by the Holy Spirit. This cannot be conveyed into an intellectual debate with a non-believer, and the understanding is true knowledge never what is called so. in error.
Click to expand...
In other words, you haven't ceased sinning and complied with mathew 5:48. But yet you claim you have saving faith according to your theory!!!
 
S

Sudakar

Banned
#9
Sep 14, 2019
1,336
50
48
#9
Micaiah-imla said:
An unbeliever becomes a born-again saint only by believing the gospel.

Then the believer is judged in this manner when he/she sins:

Paul said the following to the saints at Corinth, "And lest...I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed...Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves" (2 Corinthians 12:21, 13:5).

Prove by what? By how you have been living.

This is what the Bible teaches.
Click to expand...
Proving by which standard? Mathew 5:48 or your own subjective standard?
 
S

Sudakar

Banned
#10
Sep 14, 2019
1,336
50
48
#10
p_rehbein said:
To understand Matthew 5:48, look into the Scripture in context........ Matthew Henry said this:

Commentary on Matthew 5:43-48
(Read Matthew 5:43-48)
The Jewish teachers by "neighbour" understood only those who were of their own country, nation, and religion, whom they were pleased to look upon as their friends. The Lord Jesus teaches that we must do all the real kindness we can to all, especially to their souls. We must pray for them. While many will render good for good, we must render good for evil; and this will speak a nobler principle than most men act by. Others salute their brethren, and embrace those of their own party, and way, and opinion, but we must not so confine our respect. It is the duty of Christians to desire, and aim at, and press towards perfection in grace and holiness. And therein we must study to conform ourselves to the example of our heavenly Father, 1 Peter 1:15,16. Surely more is to be expected from the followers of Christ than from others; surely more will be found in them than in others. Let us beg of God to enable us to prove ourselves his children.
Click to expand...
So you don't need Christ to save you?
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#12
#12
Sudakar said:
In other words, you haven't ceased sinning and complied with mathew 5:48. But yet you claim you have saving faith according to your theory!!!
Click to expand...
Do you think only those that cease sinning (not possible) are saved?
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#13
Jul 2, 2011
21,465
6,722
113
#13
Sudakar said:
In other words, you haven't ceased sinning and complied with mathew 5:48. But yet you claim you have saving faith according to your theory!!!
Click to expand...
No one who believes Jesus would call Him a liar or a fraud as you intimated here in your retort.

Jesus died for all of our sins, and He walked the earth in a vessel of flesh perfectly fo rall the rest, including me, who are not perfect.

We look to Him for our perfection. This is the work He began in each of us the moment of our repentance and faith in Him was given. Only He will finish the work He began in each of us, and that only on His Great and Glorious D

Perhaps you will understand but if yo do not this is sufficient response for any.
 
S

Sudakar

Banned
#15
Sep 14, 2019
1,336
50
48
#15
JaumeJ said:
No one who believes Jesus would call Him a liar or a fraud as you intimated here in your retort.

Jesus died for all of our sins, and He walked the earth in a vessel of flesh perfectly fo rall the rest, including me, who are not perfect.

We look to Him for our perfection. This is the work He began in each of us the moment of our repentance and faith in Him was given. Only He will finish the work He began in each of us, and that only on His Great and Glorious D

Perhaps you will understand but if yo do not this is sufficient response for any.
Click to expand...
You look to Him for your perfection by grace OR seek to do works according to mathew 5:48 in order to be perfect and prove you have saving faith?
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#17
Jan 13, 2016
17,176
3,700
113
#17
Sudakar said:
So have you ceased sinning and complied with mathew 5:48?
Click to expand...
Perfect does not mean sinless for starters...also, Matthew 5 is not a Christian passage, but a Jewish command. No Christian was present in Matthew 5.
 
S

Sudakar

Banned
#18
Sep 14, 2019
1,336
50
48
#18
John146 said:
Perfect does not mean sinless for starters...also, Matthew 5 is not a Christian passage, but a Jewish command. No Christian was present in Matthew 5.
Click to expand...
Is that your tactic to lower the standards of holiness to suit your lust & sinfulness in order to somehow prove you have saving faith?
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#19
#19
Sudakar said:
Lordship salvationists demand christians to cease sinning in order to prove they have saving faith.
Click to expand...
I grasp the point you are trying to make as an inherent flaw in Lordship salvation, yes when you hear phrases "turn from sin" that is a

problem, however those that use those phrases probably do not realize the full implication of what they are stating.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#20
#20
Sudakar said:
Is that your tactic to lower the standards of holiness to suit your lust & sinfulness in order to somehow prove you have saving faith?
Click to expand...
I really think lordship salvationists do not grasp the point you are trying to make.
I am not sure we can state they knowingly lower the bar... I think they do not see the full implication of what they teach.
 
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