Is Catholicism the Oldest Christian Faith?

[acts5_29]

I think it's fair to say that Catholicism is one of the earliest embodiments of Christianity. I think it's also fair to say Coptic Christian is older than Catholicism. Catholicism--like Judaism--has since deviated its path from where it was pre-Reformation, but that nothing to do with whether it is older.

A lot of the earliest manuscripts of the New Testament we have are Catholic Latin and Coptic. Sources such as the Codex Sinaiticus and the Codex Vaticanus are what we use to verify the New Testament's authenticity.

 

[Nebuchadnezzer]

I think it's fair to say that Catholicism is one of the earliest embodiments of Christianity. I think it's also fair to say Coptic Christian is older than Catholicism. Catholicism--like Judaism--has since deviated its path from where it was pre-Reformation, but that nothing to do with whether it is older.

A lot of the earliest manuscripts of the New Testament we have are Catholic Latin and Coptic. Sources such as the Codex Sinaiticus and the Codex Vaticanus are what we use to verify the New Testament's authenticity.

This is a worldly way to look at it. It's like debating which is the best pizza in town. One argument is always to consider who is the oldest or first establishment in the town or region. Another argument is adherence to the original recipe.

One must look at it thought the lense of what is not corruptible. God promised that his Word will never change.

Isaiah 40:8 The Grass withers and the flowers fade, but the Word of God endures forever.

The oldest institution and the most unchanging institution is God's written Word. aka the Bible.

The catholic institutions may be some of the earliest, but they are also some of the most evolved or changed over the centuries. Look at all the ecumenical councils they have had. With each council they substantially change doctrines, dogmas, and traditions and creeds. And then they say if you fail to agree with them, let you be anathema., meaning let you be hated and/or cursed..

 

[acts5_29]

The Councils of Nicea and Laodicea significantly shaped what the Church is today. It's a bit of a challenge to navigate our faith based on these ever-changing councils. But you know--Nicene Creed, that's the Council of Nicea.

 

[crossnote]

The Catholics have a different written teaching authority .Sola scriptura makes there written authority without effect. They have another gospel another Christ that they call the Pope and the Bible calls a daysman an abomination of desolation.

Yes the law of the fathers the law of men oral traditions. their master they must serve. . . . usurping the authority of our Father in heaven. It is the same kind of law that makes the law of God without effect in any time period.. No man can serve two teaching Masters God and mankind. Simply different fathers same method of operations.

My point was that in the 1st century the Church had no relationship with the State, whereas in the 15-16th century there was that even by many Protestants groups.

 

[acts5_29]

My point was that in the 1st century the Church had no relationship with the State, whereas in the 15-16th century there was that even by many Protestants groups.

Well...1st century Christians had a relationship with the Roman state all right.....

 

[crossnote]

Well...1st century Christians had a relationship with the Roman state all right.....

yeah, lion food and torch fuel.

 

[oyster67]

Why do people attack Catholics as false, when we're the mutant spawn that arose from the original church? How does one reconcile their beliefs knowing that Catholicism came first?

Catholics are not the original Church. As you so aptly put it yourself, they are mutant spawn. Real Christians don't trace their roots back to Lutheranism either. They are just the mutant spawn of mutant spawn. Lets just all get back to following Jesus.

 

[Benadam]

The community that surround Jesus 2000 years ago was gone.

How could it be, that community is the Church founded on rock and received the promises of Christ.

 

[JohnR7]

How does one know one's Christian walk is true with thousands of Christian sects each purporting to be the truth and damning other sects to hell?

We are not to be taught by man. The Holy Spirit is to be our teacher and our guide. We are living stones and God will assemble His true Church. We are not identical. God does not use a cookie cutter to make Christians. "In building the temple, only blocks dressed at the quarry were used, and no hammer, chisel or any other iron tool was heard at the temple site while it was being built." (! Kings 6:7)

 

[Funkus]

I see what you're saying Garee and don't think i can argue against what you said purely on the nature of the flesh, body although God is in it!

I think the symbol is of Mary being a visible form of the Holy Spirit just as Jesus is of the Father. Any glorification of Mary as a mere human would be a problem, she has to embody something truly divine, where one begins the other ends

This helps avoid the false new age doctrine the Holy Spirit is a force which i see is an attack on Christianity (and a gigantic failure found in the church sometimes! Leading to spiritual adultery), or as inanimate 'love' is another one they do which is at least partly true but still in error

So the idea of Mary gives flesh to our own understanding of the Holy Spirit. Mary is not 'needed' for this but serves as a thought
The incarnation is a genuine mystery like all birth is and being born again is

But it all has to lead to Jesus to be worthwhile

The marian apparitions are indeed real. The marian ghosts, however, do not bring glory to God, she brings glory to her self. look at all her statues and shrines. it is all idolatry. im sorry this is offensive. but i feel you may never been told it this way before

No offence taken it's quite ok, i'm used to it
If you look at those shrines and statues they were all built by men but if you look at the character of Mary portrayed she is not seeking her own glory. Compare this with the character of man, such as leaders in churches. Do they seek their own glory or receive it or misuse their power? Sure they do sometimes!

It does also help to see the feminine side of God also does exist which no-one needs Mary for either she just makes it more obvious we have Father and Mother, and all this is Jewish and nothing new

 

[Jackson123]

How could it be, that community is the Church founded on rock and received the promises of Christ.

And what is the rock mean?

Most old church building founded on rock, new building founded on concrete. Did the foundation of your Catholic Church rock or concrete?

In rural poor country, like Indonesia some Catholic Church made from bambo, with dirt floor, did not use rock foundation.

 

[oldethennew]

they do 'claim' it, but it certainly ISN'T SO!!!
JUDE 1:3.
Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you,
and exhort you that you should earnestly contend for the Faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
catholicism certainly does NOT MEET THIS CRITERIA... - it is quite 'contrary' to the ORIGINAL FAITH...

 

[Benadam]

And what is the rock mean?

Most old church building founded on rock, new building founded on concrete. Did the foundation of your Catholic Church rock or concrete?

In rural poor country, like Indonesia some Catholic Church made from bambo, with dirt floor, did not use rock foundation.

Founded on Christ the rock with St Peter who's name was changed to 'rock' by Jesus.
Rock is a symbol of stability.
Matt 16-18
And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it.
Matt 7-25
The rain fell, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on rock.

 

[Benadam]

You cannot serve both Jesus and Caesar [John 19]. You serve one or the other. Some time in early middle ages the office of Pope became a servant for the Roman/Eastern Roman Empire (aka King Caesar) and no longer was a servant of King Jesus. The office of Pope, however, maintained the appearance of being a servant of King Jesus to deceive the world's inhabitants.

Historical Reference
https://courses.lumenlearning.com/suny-hccc-worldhistory/chapter/the-development-of-papal-supremacy/

Rev 13:14 was fulfilled.
Rev 13:14 Because of the signs it was given power to perform on behalf of the first beast, it deceived the inhabitants of the earth.

Where is the biblical account of the first beast violently assaulting the second beast as it began to rise? Most of the first Bishops of Rome were martyrd.

 

[Benadam]

Let's just all get back to following Jesus.

How does one know if that is happening? How does one distinguish the voice of the Holy Spirit from the human or evil spirit?

 

[Nebuchadnezzer]

Where is the biblical account of the first beast violently assaulting the second beast as it began to rise? Most of the first Bishops of Rome were martyrd.

The 1st beast did not martyr the 2nd beast.
So those earliest Bishops of Rome who were martyred were probabaly true christians.

What I am saying:
The earliest Bishops of Rome (33AD to 330ish AD) = true chirstians (God's people)
The Bishops of Rome (330ish AD to 536 AD) = not sure if they were true christians or false christians.
The Byzantine Papacy (537 AD onward) = They were ALL false christians (2nd Beast)

 

[Jackson123]

Founded on Christ the rock with St Peter who's name was changed to 'rock' by Jesus.
Rock is a symbol of stability.
Matt 16-18
And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it.
Matt 7-25
The rain fell, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on rock.

Are you talking about church as a physical building or as a teaching?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why do people attack Catholics as false, when we're the mutant spawn that arose from the original church? How does one reconcile their beliefs knowing that Catholicism came first?

The catholic church, as you know it, Did not spawn until the 3rd century my friend

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Your faith comes as a schism of Lutheranism and not even the original Lutheranism (unless you are Lutheran) but the versions that broke off after Lutheranism, yet you claim superiority of your Christian faith over the original practices?

How exactly does that add up to truth? If you were born before Martin Luther, all there was was Catholicism so tell me exactly how is your faith superior to Catholicism? How are they not Christians?

Not true, This is what you have been taught.

Its how they keep you in their mold..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You do realize the Bible is vastly interpreted. How do you not interpret the Bible for yourself? Do you stone witches as the Bible tells you to? Do you really think that's a good idea? After all, there's no such thing as interpretation and only the Bible. This is why the Pope exists to make the interpretation for a modern world. No matter how you try to cut, people interpret the Bible, they don't actually practice things like that.

So we should listen to men? How do you think you got your interpretations?

Paul told us all we should test. and study to rightly divide the word

Paul would not have told us to do this if we were unable to do it ourselves.

The bible says do not blindly follow any one. But to test each..

We can not test. If we can not know.

God will hold YOU accountable for what YOU believe. Not your priest.