THE LIE IN LORDSHIP SALVATION THEORY

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

I take what the scripture says literally. (Galatians 2:7-9)

Have you cut your right hand off? Have you poked out your right eye?

 

[Sudakar]

Do you love to help ppl? I do.

Look, there are ppl we don’t help because they will use us to get what they want, drugs, alcohol, or something else. We don’t like to be taken advantage of, either. Doesn’t make it right or wrong. But I’m not giving $ to a drug addict/alcoholic. I’m not feeding their habit. I’ll buy them food if they hungry. But no $ will be given into their hands.

Does a christian's love for the Lord enable him to obey Mathew 5:48? If not, why?

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Does a christian's love for the Lord enable him to obey Mathew 5:48? If not, why?

We obey it the best we can. We’re not perfect, so we sin and stumble. Are you sinless?

 

[Sudakar]

Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. ... For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Hand in glove....

So you do works according to Mathew 5:48 in order to prove your faith isn't dead?

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

So you do works according to Mathew 5:48 in order to prove your faith isn't dead?

Nope.

 

[Sudakar]

I like to think of it this way have ever had to do something you knew you were supposed to do and it seemed like a chore but then it turns into something you love to do?

Does a christian's love for the Lord enable him to obey Mathew 5:48? If not, why?

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Does a christian's love for the Lord enable him to obey Mathew 5:48? If not, why?

Are you sinless?

 

[Sudakar]

Bingo! God doesn’t save us to do nothing.

There are innumerable non christian organisations doing works of charity for several millions of dollars.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

There are innumerable non christian organisations doing works of charity for several millions of dollars.

Yes. So?

 

[Deuteronomy]

There is no worry of any contradiction to me.

Are you sure about that The Apostle Paul tells us plainly that we are justified by faith, APART from our works, while St. James (taken out of context anyway) appears to be telling us that it is our faith, PLUS our works, that saves us.

That sounds pretty contradictory to me, does it not to you too?

Question, in what way(s) do you believe that ~our~ works are counted as meritorious by God, such that He considers them an effectual atonement for our sins, and satisfaction for His wrath against us

After all, the OT and the NT both make it clear that:

Hebrews 9​

22 Without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness.​

Thanks!

~Deut

"He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf,
so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him"
2 Corinthians 5:21​

.

 

[Sudakar]

Look at the Pharisee and Tax Collector. The Pharisee was looking at all he did as if he could gain favor with God by doing them. LS advocates don’t see works as a way to earn merit with God. We see works as an evidence of being saved.

The Tax Collector didn’t work at all, just asked for mercy. He walked away justified w/o works. LS advocates adhere to that, too.

The LS advocates won't accept tax collector as having been saved because he hasn't yet shown any evidence of saving faith!!

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

The LS advocates won't accept tax collector as having been saved because he hasn't yet shown any evidence of saving faith!!

Wrong.

 

[Guojing]

Are you sure about that The Apostle Paul tells us plainly that we are justified by faith, APART from works, while St. James (taken out of context anyway) appears to be telling us that it is our faith, PLUS our works, that saves us.

That sounds pretty contradictory to me, does it not to you too?

Question, in what way(s) do you believe that ~our~ works are counted as meritorious by God, such that He considers them an effectual atonement for our sins, and satisfaction for His wrath against us

After all, the OT and the NT both make it clear that:

Hebrews 9​

22 Without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness.​

Thanks!

~Deut

"He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf,
so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him"
2 Corinthians 5:21​

.

I have quoted Galatians 2:7-9 earlier to another. For Gentiles, Paul is our apostle, we follow his doctrine of salvation. As long as you rightly divide the word of truth, there is no contradiction.

James was writing to the 12 tribes, and they will still be around during the Tribulation

 

[Sudakar]

See this is a different point.

It is not about the "why"

The point of contention is ... are good works necessary to prove salvation.

The opposite must then be true ... no goods works no salvation.

"Professors of faith" although not actually in the faith, can do good works as well.

Evidence of conversion while yes important cannot be the stated as "proof" .. because then we enter into well how much is proof?

Good observation.

 

[Guojing]

Have you cut your right hand off? Have you poked out your right eye?

Jesus was not speaking to me while he was in the flesh. (Romans 15:8)

The gospel of the kingdom was not to be preached to the Gentiles (Matthew 10:5)

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

I have quoted Galatians 2:7-9 earlier to another. For Gentiles, Paul is our apostle, we follow his doctrine of salvation.

James was writing to the 12 tribes, and they will still be around during the Tribulation

Garbage.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Jesus was not speaking to me while he was in the flesh. (Romans 15:8)

The gospel of the kingdom was not to be preached to the Gentiles (Matthew 10:5)

Again, you take scripture literally. If you take it literally, you’re saying the Christ was telling them to literally maim themselves.

But nice cop out there bruh.

 

[Sudakar]

Wherefore, we labor...

What are we going to be held accountable for at the judgment seat of Christ?

Don't ask me. What does the verse say? Does it say in the case of rewards you don't need grace and Christ who gives it?

 

[Blain]

So do you agree that James is saying BOTH works and faith are necessary to be saved?

Yes because they are two side of the same coin but the mistake made is when people think one produces the other but in fact they both produce each other side by side

 

[Guojing]

Again, you take scripture literally. If you take it literally, you’re saying the Christ was telling them to literally maim themselves.

But nice cop out there bruh.

The gospel of the kingdom was accompanied by signs and wonders. Jesus healed all the Jews who came to him (Acts 10:38).

Now, if I know that Jesus could heal me, and I am in danger of allowing a sin that is caused by one of my body parts to disqualify me from the promised kingdom, is it really that difficult a choice to maim myself so that I can still get into the kingdom by the skin of my teeth?