Prophecy, it’s not what most think.
- Thread starter Dave-L
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Two times in the gospels the word "RETURN" is used [re: Jesus], so let's look at those and see what they actually say with regard to that particular thing:
--Luke 12:36-37,38,40-42 "when he will RETURN from the wedding..." ... THEN "the meal [G347 - 'shall sit down' (around a table/at a meal)]"--this is a matter of grasping CHRONOLOGY;
--Luke 19:12,15,17,19 "RETURN" when He will deal out responsibilities, having to do with "have thou authority over 10 cities"... "likewise... be thou also over 5 cities" (note that "cities" are located on the earth... and this corresponds with what Rev19:15b states, "and He SHALL [future tense] SHEPHERD them [/the nations--'nations' are located on the earth] with a rod [/sceptre] of iron [righteousness and strength]")
[and these two passages themselves also have parallel passages, to be examined likewise]
--Luke 12:36-37,38,40-42 "when he will RETURN from the wedding..." ... THEN "the meal [G347 - 'shall sit down' (around a table/at a meal)]"--this is a matter of grasping CHRONOLOGY;
--Luke 19:12,15,17,19 "RETURN" when He will deal out responsibilities, having to do with "have thou authority over 10 cities"... "likewise... be thou also over 5 cities" (note that "cities" are located on the earth... and this corresponds with what Rev19:15b states, "and He SHALL [future tense] SHEPHERD them [/the nations--'nations' are located on the earth] with a rod [/sceptre] of iron [righteousness and strength]")
[and these two passages themselves also have parallel passages, to be examined likewise]
I agree with DaveL That there isn't a gap year but we differ on belief in a literal millennium. The following is why I believe as you two with regards to a literal 1000 years. It's something that was taught to me a while back.
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Isaiah 46:9-10
Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
The word for "beginning" is the same word translated as "Genesis". So if we take this literally the end was declared from Genesis. Next, we have passages like...
Psalms 90:4
A thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night.
2 Peter 3:8
But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.
So 1000 years is like a day to the Almighty. But is this metaphorical or literal? Is there a 3rd testimony to confirm which this is? Yes, I believe it's the following passage:
Genesis 2:17; 5:5
2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.
The Almighty doesn't lie. In the "day" Adam ate of the forbidden fruit he sure did died, that is, within the first 1000 years of mankind (specifically year 930), Adam died. The time of man began with the first man. So the formula "1000 years = 1 day" is a literal measurement of time from the Almighty's pov with regard to his judgment for Adam's sin...which means there should be other testimonies to prove this throughout the time of mankind.
This brings me back to Genesis and Isaiah's passage referenced above. Again, the end was told from Genesis; a day = 1000 years.
What you'll find when you measure out each of the major themes of scripture they match the events and the day of the creation story, to the exact millennium. Now, to measure years correctly we must remember that there is no such thing as a "zero" year for anyone or anything in the bible. So the birth year - or year of creation - of a person is "year 1". And the year a nation/kingdom is founded is also "year 1" of that nation/kingdom.
I think it's also important to understand that in order to count as a fulfillment, these events must occur within the millennium of the matching day of the creation story but can occur at any time in that millennium. In other words, it doesn't need to be at the very start of a millennium.
Day 1 Theme: Light separates from Darkness
During the 1st Millennium of man: "In the day" (930 YFA) Adam ate the forbidden fruit he died; death entered into the world; Good from Evil (sin) was established; sinful mankind was separated from paradise & personal presence of the Almighty.
Day 2 Theme: Earth's waters divided to reveal dry ground
2nd Millennium: The great flood occurs. After the flood, the waters from above divided from the waters below to reveal dry ground again. And if you count the birth years of each firstborn from Adam to Noah (remembering the rule that there are no "zero" years) we reach the year 1648 YFA, which puts us well within the 2nd 1000 years of man.
Day 3 Theme: The Seed, The Trees, bearing fruit on the land
3rd Millennium: Abraham was given the "promised seed" through barren Sarah. Isaac was given the "promised seed" through barren Rebecca. Jacob was given the "promised seed" through his barren wives. Israel multiplies into a great multitude of people in Egypt and was given the "promised land" bearing "great fruit". Counting the years of each firstborn from Noah to Abram through to Moses and through their time of sojourning & slavery until reaching Canaan, we find everything occurred between approx. 2032 YFA and 2990 YFA.
[I fully believe this is one of the reasons why the Almighty shared ages and years in scripture...so we can keep track of time.]
Day 4 Theme: Stars, Moon and Sun rule the Day and Night
4th Millennium: From approx 3013 YFA The judges, prophets, and kings ruled and judged Israel. The heavenly hosts are called the "stars of heaven" that preside as "princes" over the nations (remember the Prince of Persia that prevented Gabriel from delivering his message to Daniel). Finally, we have the arrival of the "Sun of Righteousness" with healing in his "wings" (i.e. the hem of his garment - Mal 4:2), The Messiah was born at the end of the 4th millennium of mankind on approx. 3998 YFA (or 3 BCE).
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If I stopped here these four witnesses should be enough to make a pretty strong case that the Almighty is indeed following His plan laid out in Genesis, to the very millennium of mankind, which means the 7th day of creation must correspond to a literal 1000-year reign of the Messiah as the prophesied "The Day of the Lord". The Sabbath rest.
...It also provides additional support for why I believe Revelation 13's beast of the sea and beast of the earth are already present on earth ruling for the last 2000 years. But I'll leave these events for a later discussion.
-----
Isaiah 46:9-10
Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
The word for "beginning" is the same word translated as "Genesis". So if we take this literally the end was declared from Genesis. Next, we have passages like...
Psalms 90:4
A thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night.
2 Peter 3:8
But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.
So 1000 years is like a day to the Almighty. But is this metaphorical or literal? Is there a 3rd testimony to confirm which this is? Yes, I believe it's the following passage:
Genesis 2:17; 5:5
2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.
The Almighty doesn't lie. In the "day" Adam ate of the forbidden fruit he sure did died, that is, within the first 1000 years of mankind (specifically year 930), Adam died. The time of man began with the first man. So the formula "1000 years = 1 day" is a literal measurement of time from the Almighty's pov with regard to his judgment for Adam's sin...which means there should be other testimonies to prove this throughout the time of mankind.
This brings me back to Genesis and Isaiah's passage referenced above. Again, the end was told from Genesis; a day = 1000 years.
What you'll find when you measure out each of the major themes of scripture they match the events and the day of the creation story, to the exact millennium. Now, to measure years correctly we must remember that there is no such thing as a "zero" year for anyone or anything in the bible. So the birth year - or year of creation - of a person is "year 1". And the year a nation/kingdom is founded is also "year 1" of that nation/kingdom.
I think it's also important to understand that in order to count as a fulfillment, these events must occur within the millennium of the matching day of the creation story but can occur at any time in that millennium. In other words, it doesn't need to be at the very start of a millennium.
Every 1000 Years of man = 1 "Day" to the Almighty
Day 1
Years 1 - 1000 (from Adam)
Day 2
1001 - 2000 Years From Adam
Day 3
2001 - 3000 YFA
Day 4
3001 - 4000 YFA
Day 5
4001 - 5000 YFA
Day 6
5001 - 6000 YFA
Day 7
6001 - 7000 YFA
Years 1 - 1000 (from Adam)
Day 2
1001 - 2000 Years From Adam
Day 3
2001 - 3000 YFA
Day 4
3001 - 4000 YFA
Day 5
4001 - 5000 YFA
Day 6
5001 - 6000 YFA
Day 7
6001 - 7000 YFA
Day 1 Theme: Light separates from Darkness
During the 1st Millennium of man: "In the day" (930 YFA) Adam ate the forbidden fruit he died; death entered into the world; Good from Evil (sin) was established; sinful mankind was separated from paradise & personal presence of the Almighty.
Day 2 Theme: Earth's waters divided to reveal dry ground
2nd Millennium: The great flood occurs. After the flood, the waters from above divided from the waters below to reveal dry ground again. And if you count the birth years of each firstborn from Adam to Noah (remembering the rule that there are no "zero" years) we reach the year 1648 YFA, which puts us well within the 2nd 1000 years of man.
Day 3 Theme: The Seed, The Trees, bearing fruit on the land
3rd Millennium: Abraham was given the "promised seed" through barren Sarah. Isaac was given the "promised seed" through barren Rebecca. Jacob was given the "promised seed" through his barren wives. Israel multiplies into a great multitude of people in Egypt and was given the "promised land" bearing "great fruit". Counting the years of each firstborn from Noah to Abram through to Moses and through their time of sojourning & slavery until reaching Canaan, we find everything occurred between approx. 2032 YFA and 2990 YFA.
[I fully believe this is one of the reasons why the Almighty shared ages and years in scripture...so we can keep track of time.]
Day 4 Theme: Stars, Moon and Sun rule the Day and Night
4th Millennium: From approx 3013 YFA The judges, prophets, and kings ruled and judged Israel. The heavenly hosts are called the "stars of heaven" that preside as "princes" over the nations (remember the Prince of Persia that prevented Gabriel from delivering his message to Daniel). Finally, we have the arrival of the "Sun of Righteousness" with healing in his "wings" (i.e. the hem of his garment - Mal 4:2), The Messiah was born at the end of the 4th millennium of mankind on approx. 3998 YFA (or 3 BCE).
-----
If I stopped here these four witnesses should be enough to make a pretty strong case that the Almighty is indeed following His plan laid out in Genesis, to the very millennium of mankind, which means the 7th day of creation must correspond to a literal 1000-year reign of the Messiah as the prophesied "The Day of the Lord". The Sabbath rest.
...It also provides additional support for why I believe Revelation 13's beast of the sea and beast of the earth are already present on earth ruling for the last 2000 years. But I'll leave these events for a later discussion.
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Who cares what "Constantine" said.
Let's go to Scripture to inform our views on things:
Leviticus 23 -
9 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 10 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest: 11 And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it. 12 And ye shall offer that day when ye wave the sheaf an he lamb without blemish of the first year for a burnt offering unto the LORD. 13 And the meat offering thereof shall be two tenth deals of fine flour mingled with oil, an offering made by fire unto the LORD for a sweet savour: and the drink offering thereof shall be of wine, the fourth part of an hin. 14 And ye shall eat neither bread, nor parched corn, nor green ears, until the selfsame day that ye have brought an offering unto your God: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.
1Cor15:20 - "But now Christ has been raised out from the dead, the firstfruit of those having fallen asleep."
He did this ON FIRSTFRUIT (His Resurrection Day; fulfilling Lev23:10-12 "firstfruit" [the FIRST of TWO mentions of "firstfruit" in Lev23]), which day is also the same day that elsewhere in Scripture is called "the first of the WEEKS [PLURAL]" (the "WEEKS [PLURAL]" being a very specific time OF THE YEAR).
This is not to say one should advocate for "Sunday worship," or anything, but just to point a few things out. = )
"The Sabbath" is the SEVENTH day of the week (what we commonly call "Saturday"), and has not "switched over" to Sunday. No. (Exodus 31:13,17 "it [the sabbath / seventh day] is A SIGN between Me and the children of Israel for ever."
["another esteemeth every day alike..."]
Let's go to Scripture to inform our views on things:
Leviticus 23 -
9 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 10 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest: 11 And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it. 12 And ye shall offer that day when ye wave the sheaf an he lamb without blemish of the first year for a burnt offering unto the LORD. 13 And the meat offering thereof shall be two tenth deals of fine flour mingled with oil, an offering made by fire unto the LORD for a sweet savour: and the drink offering thereof shall be of wine, the fourth part of an hin. 14 And ye shall eat neither bread, nor parched corn, nor green ears, until the selfsame day that ye have brought an offering unto your God: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.
1Cor15:20 - "But now Christ has been raised out from the dead, the firstfruit of those having fallen asleep."
He did this ON FIRSTFRUIT (His Resurrection Day; fulfilling Lev23:10-12 "firstfruit" [the FIRST of TWO mentions of "firstfruit" in Lev23]), which day is also the same day that elsewhere in Scripture is called "the first of the WEEKS [PLURAL]" (the "WEEKS [PLURAL]" being a very specific time OF THE YEAR).
This is not to say one should advocate for "Sunday worship," or anything, but just to point a few things out. = )
"The Sabbath" is the SEVENTH day of the week (what we commonly call "Saturday"), and has not "switched over" to Sunday. No. (Exodus 31:13,17 "it [the sabbath / seventh day] is A SIGN between Me and the children of Israel for ever."
["another esteemeth every day alike..."]
It is written that if a person presumes to speak in the name of the LORD, regardless of whether what they say comes to pass of not, that even that prophet shall die. We are not told to kill a prophet. But then again some are like Enoch who walked with God and was not, for the LORD consumed him.
But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
Where you get it says to kill that person is beyond me other than to assume you hath spoken it presumptuously,
When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
You must be referring unto the prophet or dreamer of dreams that gives you a sign or wonder that comes to pass, which was given so that you go and follow after other gods which you knew not and to serve them, that one shall you not listen to, except if that prophet or dreamer of dreams be:
6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;
7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;
8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:
9 But thou shalt surely kill him;
But unless that prophet or dreamer of dream is put to death by the hand of his brother or his son, daughter, the wife of his bosom or his friend first, you shall not give a hand afterwards in his death, to stone him with stones.
So the more the prophet speaks the faster his soul is consumed by his sin or is filled with the fruit of his tongue.
A wholesome tongue is a tree of life: but perverseness therein is a breach in the spirit. The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise.
But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
Where you get it says to kill that person is beyond me other than to assume you hath spoken it presumptuously,
When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
You must be referring unto the prophet or dreamer of dreams that gives you a sign or wonder that comes to pass, which was given so that you go and follow after other gods which you knew not and to serve them, that one shall you not listen to, except if that prophet or dreamer of dreams be:
6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;
7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;
8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:
9 But thou shalt surely kill him;
But unless that prophet or dreamer of dream is put to death by the hand of his brother or his son, daughter, the wife of his bosom or his friend first, you shall not give a hand afterwards in his death, to stone him with stones.
So the more the prophet speaks the faster his soul is consumed by his sin or is filled with the fruit of his tongue.
A wholesome tongue is a tree of life: but perverseness therein is a breach in the spirit. The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise.
I was thinking about the Millenium and something occured to me. I wonder if anyone has an answer. In Revelation we are told that
the Beast and the False Prophet are thrown into the Lake of Fire at Christs second coming and Satan is bound in the bottomless pit
for 1000 years.. At the end of 1000 years Satan is released and gathers the nations (Gog and Magog), together for one last rebellion'
During the Tribulation Satan uses the Antichrist and the false Prophet to deceive the nations. But who does he use in the Millennium?
the Beast and the False Prophet are thrown into the Lake of Fire at Christs second coming and Satan is bound in the bottomless pit
for 1000 years.. At the end of 1000 years Satan is released and gathers the nations (Gog and Magog), together for one last rebellion'
During the Tribulation Satan uses the Antichrist and the false Prophet to deceive the nations. But who does he use in the Millennium?
You may know this already, but the ark landed on the date of the Feast of First Fruits as well.
(Gen 8:4) and in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, the ark came to rest on the mountains of Ararat.
(Ex 12:2) “This month is the beginning of months for you; it shall be the first month of your year.
(Gen 8:4) and in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, the ark came to rest on the mountains of Ararat.
(Ex 12:2) “This month is the beginning of months for you; it shall be the first month of your year.
DURING the MK age, children will be born unto those ['saints'] who ENTERED the MK age in their mortal bodies.
But the ones BORN to them are not "BORN automatically RIGHTEOUS".
Death will be much more rare in the MK age, reserved only for the rebellious. (Those children/grandchildren [etc] BORN to them will be the only ones SUSCEPTIBLE to "death" IN/DURING the MK age.)
"The HEART is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked..."
[as some have said... the MK age is to display without a doubt that "man's HEART" needs no outside influences in order for it to be "deceived"... I can see how this would be so]
But the ones BORN to them are not "BORN automatically RIGHTEOUS".
Death will be much more rare in the MK age, reserved only for the rebellious. (Those children/grandchildren [etc] BORN to them will be the only ones SUSCEPTIBLE to "death" IN/DURING the MK age.)
"The HEART is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked..."
[as some have said... the MK age is to display without a doubt that "man's HEART" needs no outside influences in order for it to be "deceived"... I can see how this would be so]
From my studies, it's after the millennium that the 2nd resurrection (of the unrighteous) will occur, as Revelation says the rest of the dead do not live until after those 1000 years. Once that happens I believe satan will have people to whisper into once again (you know, old leaders and generals, etc), thus that will be him being "loosed" for a short time to gather those people together (along with any from the remaining nations that were alive during the millennium reign but who never submitted to the Almighty's rule).
Daniel 7 explains that after the son of man comes and acquires the rule of the earth (by crushing the 4th beast) the remaining nations are allowed to continue for a short time but with their dominion removed. So this shows me there will be nations as we know them during the millennium. Next, Revelation chapters 2-3 explain that those who "overcome" will rule those nations with a "rod of iron". Zechariah 14 explains that those nations will be required to worship the King on Tabernacles each year or they will not receive any rain for their crops. So I believe the millennium will be a very tough time for the nations. It'll be tough for those who never subscribed to the ways of Christ...so one can imagine many resentful people no longer allowed to live the way they want ready to mount a coup against the "regathered; fully-grafted, Jew-gentile" Kingdom of Israel during their time of peace, as Ezekiel 38 and 39 explains.
This is my take.
Daniel 7 explains that after the son of man comes and acquires the rule of the earth (by crushing the 4th beast) the remaining nations are allowed to continue for a short time but with their dominion removed. So this shows me there will be nations as we know them during the millennium. Next, Revelation chapters 2-3 explain that those who "overcome" will rule those nations with a "rod of iron". Zechariah 14 explains that those nations will be required to worship the King on Tabernacles each year or they will not receive any rain for their crops. So I believe the millennium will be a very tough time for the nations. It'll be tough for those who never subscribed to the ways of Christ...so one can imagine many resentful people no longer allowed to live the way they want ready to mount a coup against the "regathered; fully-grafted, Jew-gentile" Kingdom of Israel during their time of peace, as Ezekiel 38 and 39 explains.
This is my take.
I'm a fence sitter when it comes to this subject. Where exactly did Jesus put this Pharisee doctrine to rest? If he did why did John mention it? When exactly did this 1000 year binding of Satan start? If you take say 34AD for Christs ascension and count one thousand years you arrive at suprise! 1034 AD I expect a lot of things happened at that date but what if anything occured that would lead one to believe that Satan was unbound then. The same applies to any other date one could start from.
If you study the Kingdom of God in the gospels, you can clearly see it is spiritual and the Pharisee's kingdom is physical. Jesus said you cannot see the kingdom unless born again. Anyone can see a physical kingdom. Moreover, if you look where the Millennium doctrine ends up, it rejects Christ and his atonement returning to Judaism and animal sacrifices.
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