"Jesus died for everybody's sins"

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DBurrage

Banned
#1
Apr 21, 2020
621
176
43
#1
"Jesus died for everybody's sins".

This is what I hear often from Christians and non-Christians alike.

Surely it isn't true though.

Jesus said
"I am the way, the truth and the life".
Humanity turned away from God when we ignored God's commandments in the garden of Eden.
Jesus offers us a way to develop a relationship with God and to start following Him again.

Jesus died for the sins of the people who choose to follow Him, and believe in Him.
He did not die for every random person, whether they choose to follow and believe in Him or not.

Thoughts?
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#3
#3
DBurrage said:
"Jesus died for everybody's sins".

This is what I hear often from Christians and non-Christians alike.

Surely it isn't true though.

Jesus said
"I am the way, the truth and the life".
Humanity turned away from God when we ignored God's commandments in the garden of Eden.
Jesus offers us a way to develop a relationship with God and to start following Him again.

Jesus died for the sins of the people who choose to follow Him, and believe in Him.
He did not die for every random person, whether they choose to follow and believe in Him or not.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

John 3:16 For God so loved... who? That He gave His Son. That who should believe and be saved? There's the answer in a nutshell.
 
D

DBurrage

Banned
#4
Apr 21, 2020
621
176
43
#4
kaylagrl said:
John 3:16 For God so loved... who? That He gave His Son. That who should believe and be saved? There's the answer in a nutshell.
Click to expand...
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

...so no, not everybody.
The opportunity to reconnect with God is given to everybody, but not everybody will take it.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#5
#5
DBurrage said:
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

...so no, not everybody.
The opportunity to reconnect with God is given to everybody, but not everybody will take it.
Click to expand...

I never said everyone will accept, I said it is offered to everyone. The free gift of salvation is to all.
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#6
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
113
#6
DBurrage said:
"Jesus died for everybody's sins".

This is what I hear often from Christians and non-Christians alike.

Surely it isn't true though.

Jesus said
"I am the way, the truth and the life".
Humanity turned away from God when we ignored God's commandments in the garden of Eden.
Jesus offers us a way to develop a relationship with God and to start following Him again.

Jesus died for the sins of the people who choose to follow Him, and believe in Him.
He did not die for every random person, whether they choose to follow and believe in Him or not.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Jesus chose those who could not choose him so that they could choose him.
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#9
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
113
#9
DBurrage said:
With the greatest of respect, that sound like fluffy circular stuff.
What are you trying to say?
Click to expand...
DBurrage said:
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

...so no, not everybody.
The opportunity to reconnect with God is given to everybody, but not everybody will take it.
Click to expand...
Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith. So only those he produced faith in are atoned for.
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#10
Sep 4, 2013
30,663
6,853
113
#10
OP sounds a wee bit Calvinistic..................just saying

Christ shed His precious blood for ALL MANKIND! Those who came to Him seeking salvation had their sins cleansed by that precious blood............ He didn't JUST select a few and shed just enough blood to cleanse them, because this would be against what God desires........

1 Timothy, Chapter 2

1I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
2For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;


That there are thos who will not come to Christ in no way lessens the desire of God to have ALL men saved, nor the sacrifice of Christ lessened.,,
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#11
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
#11
Dave-L said:
Jesus chose those who could not choose him so that they could choose him.
Click to expand...
Not only CAN all choose, but all MUST choose.

Joshua 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that [were] on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#12
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
113
#12
oyster67 said:
Not only CAN all choose, but all MUST choose.

Joshua 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that [were] on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
Click to expand...
So Jesus did not pay for the sin of not choosing?
 
D

DBurrage

Banned
#13
Apr 21, 2020
621
176
43
#13
p_rehbein said:
OP sounds a wee bit Calvinistic..................just saying

Christ shed His precious blood for ALL MANKIND! Those who came to Him seeking salvation had their sins cleansed by that precious blood............ He didn't JUST select a few and shed just enough blood to cleanse them, because this would be against what God desires........

1 Timothy, Chapter 2

1I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
2For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;


That there are thos who will not come to Christ in no way lessens the desire of God to have ALL men saved, nor the sacrifice of Christ lessened.,,
Click to expand...
I don't believe that God preselected anybody to be saved.
If he did, then where does free will come in to it?

What I'm saying is exactly what you said above:
"Those who came to Him seeking salvation had their sins cleansed"

Jesus provided an OPPORTUNITY to everybody to follow God, but he only died so that the people who choose to follow him will not be judged.
He, therefore, did not 'die for everybody's sins', because not everybody chooses to follow him.
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#14
Sep 4, 2013
30,663
6,853
113
#14
Dave-L said:
So Jesus did not pay for the sin of not choosing?
Click to expand...
There is no sin of "not choosing." Everyone chooses.............they choose to turn to Christ and become children of God, or they choose to serve mammon..............EVERYONE makes their own choice........
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#15
Sep 4, 2013
30,663
6,853
113
#15
Not what I am saying........He died FOR ALL mankind...........the fact that all mankind did not/does not choose Him does not negate that He died for ALL of them.......
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#16
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
#16
DBurrage said:
The opportunity to reconnect with God is given to everybody
Click to expand...
Yes, He died for all, but all will not profit. Some will reject. Most of us agree (except for our resident hypercalvinist).
 
D

DBurrage

Banned
#17
Apr 21, 2020
621
176
43
#17
p_rehbein said:
There is no sin of "not choosing." Everyone chooses.............they choose to turn to Christ and become children of God, or they choose to serve mammon..............EVERYONE makes their own choice........
Click to expand...
It is only through Jesus that we are able to reconnect with God.

Are you suggesting that even those who choose not to follow Jesus will not be judged?
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#18
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
113
#18
p_rehbein said:
There is no sin of "not choosing." Everyone chooses.............they choose to turn to Christ and become children of God, or they choose to serve mammon..............EVERYONE makes their own choice........
Click to expand...
But not choosing violates the 1st Commandment.
 
1ofthem

1ofthem

Senior Member
#19
Mar 30, 2016
3,729
1,921
113
#19
DBurrage said:
I don't believe that God preselected anybody to be saved.
If he did, then where does free will come in to it?

What I'm saying is exactly what you said above:
"Those who came to Him seeking salvation had their sins cleansed"

Jesus provided an OPPORTUNITY to everybody to follow God, but he only died so that the people who choose to follow him will not be judged.
He, therefore, did not 'die for everybody's sins', because not everybody chooses to follow him.
Click to expand...
Sounds like you are really on the same page as everyone else here...well except for the Calvinist.

Seems that you are really saying the same thing as the rest just in a different way. Jesus died for all but not all will choose the free gift of salvation, and only the one's that choose Him will be saved. So he died for all but not all will accept him.
 
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