The Great Apostasy.

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Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#61
Dec 6, 2016
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#61
'We can do absolutely nothing to stop these end times, instead we can refuse to be part of the apostasy. The apostasy started soon after the crucifixion when church fathers started adding to scripture. The holy days were changed and the new covenant was said to destroy not build,.

It is up to us to be part of the remnant and watch our every belief for God's input and man's input and get the man inspired ideas that come from demons out of our minds and put God in control of our lives.
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#62
Jun 24, 2011
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#62
JohnR7 said:
Perhaps you do not want to understand. People are always guilty of what they accuse others of. We have the Holy Spirit of God to guide us and lead us into all truth. We do not need man to teach us anything.
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What are people guilty of when they deflect and don't answer a direct question?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#63
#63
Grandpa said:
I didn't say Jesus ended.

I said, as scripture also states, that the Lord has effectively ended the practice of Judaism.

Hebrews 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Hebrews 9:8-12
8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.


Do you just not understand what the scripture is saying?

Or do you just not want to understand?
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Amen

he fulfilled

that means it’s purpose has been completed
 
JohnR7

JohnR7

Banned
#64
Dec 30, 2019
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#64
Grandpa said:
What are people guilty of when they deflect and don't answer a direct question?
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They are guilty of knowing that there is no answer for a rhetorical question.
 
JohnR7

JohnR7

Banned
#65
Dec 30, 2019
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#65
Blik said:
It is up to us to be part of the remnant
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There is a remnant that repopulates the earth. Just as Jerusalem was repopulated. Even Science tells us that. I believe that even though 1/3 of the people will be saved only 10% of the people actually represent God. We are told many are called but few are chosen. They do not want to pay the price in Holiness and Sanctification.

"But yet in it shall be a tenth, and it shall return" (isaiah 6:13)

"This third I will put into the fire; I will refine them like silver and test them like gold. They will call on my name and I will answer them; I will say, 'They are my people,' and they will say, 'The LORD is our God.'" (Zechariah 13:9)
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#66
Jul 3, 2015
59,910
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#66
Grandpa said:
Why did the Jews want to put Jesus to death to begin with?

If Christianity were just to be a form of Judaism minus animal sacrifice, like most
Christians seem to ascribe to, I don't think the Jews ever would have been so offended.

But the Lord Jesus put an END to Judaism. And the Jews knew He was doing it.

Why more Christians don't understand this most basic of Christian concepts I do not know.

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if
righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
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The religious leaders wanted to kill Jesus because He equated Himself with God.

It is also my understanding that the withering of the fig tree was symbolic of the passing of temple worship and the Jewish system, since not only was it was unfruitful (the law does not save), but Jesus was preparing to institute the new covenant in His shed righteous blood as the perfect Lamb of God purposed from before the foundation of the world. That incident with the fig tree happened as Jesus was approaching Jerusalem the week before His crucifixion. In the same chapter (Matt 21) Jesus told the chief priests and the elders of the people: the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit.
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#67
Jun 24, 2011
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#67
Magenta said:
The religious leaders wanted to kill Jesus because He equated Himself with God.

It is also my understanding that the withering of the fig tree was symbolic of the passing of temple worship and the Jewish system, since not only was it was unfruitful (the law does not save), but Jesus was preparing to institute the new covenant in His shed righteous blood as the perfect Lamb of God purposed from before the foundation of the world. That incident with the fig tree happened as Jesus was approaching Jerusalem the week before His crucifixion. In the same chapter (Matt 21) Jesus told the chief priests and the elders of the people: the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit.
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I pretty much agree with your whole statement.

I think the Lord Jesus 'equating' Himself with God was the excuse they used to cry 'blasphemy' and have Him crucified.

But really, I think it was more their dislike for His Authority and their "authority" being taken away that was the cause of them wanting the Lord Jesus dead.

If the Lord claimed to be equal with God but had no followers I don't think the Pharisees would have given Him much thought.


There's no way for me to really prove any of these statements with scripture. I am just adding what I know about human nature and history to the narrative that makes logical sense to me.

Getting upset over some guy saying he is God doesn't make any sense. If I were in that spot I would just say "sure buddy, whatever". But if some of "my" people were converting to that guys religion and then that whole religion started saying that they were the One True Religion and my religion was the past and was over with, I would start having a major problem with that guy that claimed he was God. I would look for all kinds of reasons to get rid of him. If I thought I was right and he was wrong...

I see it as a classic power struggle.
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#68
Jun 24, 2011
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#68
JohnR7 said:
They are guilty of knowing that there is no answer for a rhetorical question.
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That was one of the best statements used for running away from the Truth that I've seen a legalist or Hebrew Roots person ever use.

Bravo...
 
JohnR7

JohnR7

Banned
#69
Dec 30, 2019
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#69
Grandpa said:
That was one of the best statements used for running away from the Truth that I've seen a legalist or Hebrew Roots person ever use.
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We are guilty of what we accuse others of, so now you are admitting to us that you are a legalist. That is fine only I am not quite sure what you mean my legalist but I am sure you know what you mean by the word.
 

Attachments

G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#70
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
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#70
JohnR7 said:
We are guilty of what we accuse others of, so now you are admitting to us that you are a legalist. That is fine only I am not quite sure what you mean my legalist but I am sure you know what you mean by the word.
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Normally, someone who refuses to see is a legalist in some way. The biggest ones are SDA and Hebrew Roots.

2 Corinthians 3:13-14
13 And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
 
JohnR7

JohnR7

Banned
#71
Dec 30, 2019
1,266
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#71
Grandpa said:
Normally, someone who refuses to see is a legalist in some way. The biggest ones are SDA and Hebrew Roots.

2 Corinthians 3:13-14
13 And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
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That is your definition of a legalist is someone with a veil over their face? You better look in a mirror then because Jesus clearly says that we are guilty of what we accuse others of. Paul tells us you condemn yourself: "You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things." (Romans 2:1) So you can accuse others all you want but it is your own back yard that you need to pick up and clean up. "Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye." (Matthew 7:5)
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#72
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
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#72
JohnR7 said:
That is your definition of a legalist is someone with a veil over their face? You better look in a mirror then because Jesus clearly says that we are guilty of what we accuse others of. Paul tells us you condemn yourself: "You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things." (Romans 2:1) So you can accuse others all you want but it is your own back yard that you need to pick up and clean up. "Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye." (Matthew 7:5)
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I was really just fishing. Not sure 100% when I said it. Just trying to figure out where you are coming from.

All the deflection and non-answering is falling into the exact same pattern as all the legalists and Hebrew Roots followers before you.


Think of it as "by their fruits you shall know them". I've seen this deflection before. Several times.
 
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