THE LIE IN LORDSHIP SALVATION THEORY

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S

Sudakar

Banned
#1
Sep 14, 2019
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#1
Lordship salvation theory teaches the following: That one's salvation is CONDITIONAL upon the life we live. It states:

"Submission to the will of God, to Christ’s lordship, and to the guiding of the Spirit is an essential, not an optional, part of saving faith" (EPHESIANS, p. 249).

"Salvation isn't the result of an intellectual exercise. It comes from a life lived in obedience and service to Christ as revealed in the Scripture; it's the fruit of actions, not intentions. There's no room for passive spectators: words without actions are empty and futile...The life we live, not the words we speak, determines our eternal destiny" (Hard to Believe, p. 93).

The Word of God calls it a lie in Romans 4:5... "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#3
Jul 3, 2015
61,149
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#3
Is that a Johnny Mac (John MacArthur) teaching?
 
Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#4
Aug 28, 2012
19,502
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#4
I’m sorry that second post made me laugh you may post your opinions :LOL:
Well as long as I have your permission I agree that it is good to not be lazy but it is a choice
The spirit leads and guides us and works naturally produce but it also requires us to listen
He never forces anything he treasures a willing child not a controlled one
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#5
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
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#5
Sudakar said:
Lordship salvation theory teaches the following: That one's salvation is CONDITIONAL upon the life we live. It states:
Click to expand...
You have a serious misunderstanding of Lordship Salvation. Here is how it is described in Got Questions:

Question: "What is lordship salvation?"
Answer: The doctrine of lordship salvation teaches that submitting to Christ as Lord goes hand-in-hand with trusting in Christ as Savior. Lordship salvation is the opposite of what is sometimes called easy-believism or the teaching that salvation comes through an acknowledgement of a certain set of facts.

Here is what CARM Says:
What is Lordship salvation and is it biblical?
by Matt Slick
Though there are variations on what Lordship salvation really is, it is basically the view that in order to become a true Christian a person must receive Jesus as both Savior and Lord and that he must also cease from sin or be willing to cease from sin in order to be saved (i.e., repent).

Both definitions are presenting the biblical meaning of salvation. Repentance toward God and faith toward our LORD Jesus Christ (Acts 20:21). So unless one receives Christ as BOTH Lord and Savior, he or she is not truly saved. See Romans 10 for further confirmation. And here are the words of Paul in Acts 16:31: Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

It does not matter what John MacArthur or anyone else says, or misrepresents. You have your Bible, and it teaches Lordship Salvation.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#6
#6
Nehemiah6 said:
You have a serious misunderstanding of Lordship Salvation. Here is how it is described in Got Questions:

Question: "What is lordship salvation?"
Answer: The doctrine of lordship salvation teaches that submitting to Christ as Lord goes hand-in-hand with trusting in Christ as Savior. Lordship salvation is the opposite of what is sometimes called easy-believism or the teaching that salvation comes through an acknowledgement of a certain set of facts.

Here is what CARM Says:
What is Lordship salvation and is it biblical?
by Matt Slick
Though there are variations on what Lordship salvation really is, it is basically the view that in order to become a true Christian a person must receive Jesus as both Savior and Lord and that he must also cease from sin or be willing to cease from sin in order to be saved (i.e., repent).

Both definitions are presenting the biblical meaning of salvation. Repentance toward God and faith toward our LORD Jesus Christ (Acts 20:21). So unless one receives Christ as BOTH Lord and Savior, he or she is not truly saved. See Romans 10 for further confirmation. And here are the words of Paul in Acts 16:31: Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

It does not matter what John MacArthur or anyone else says, or misrepresents. You have your Bible, and it teaches Lordship Salvation.
Click to expand...
Salvation is a "gift" by grace through faith apart from any and all works.... to add in "turn from sin" as a requirement makes it a bilateral transaction ....quid pro quo..... it is not.

We do not make a promise to turn from sin in order to receive the gift of salvation...moreover Jesus is Lord we do not make Him Lord.
 
Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#7
Aug 28, 2012
19,502
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#7
Honestly this is this the first I have heard of lordship salvation no idea what it is really
 
M

Micaiah-imla

Banned
#9
Feb 29, 2020
1,563
571
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#9
Sudakar said:
The Word of God calls it a lie in Romans 4:5... "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."
Click to expand...
Works cannot take away sins or make you righteous in God’s eyes. Even the sacrifices in the old covenant could not take away sins; they only provided forgiveness. And they could not make the worshippers perfect as pertaining to the conscience (Hebrews 9:9). Even if one ceased from sin, the old sins are still there before God and before man’s conscience. This is why there was a remembrance of sins made every year (Hebrews 10:3).

But after Christ’s sacrifice on the cross, all who believe receive forgiveness of sins and the removal of sins from their conscience and are made perfect.

Although the scriptures make it clear that justification can only be obtained by faith (Romans 4:5), it is also clear that after justification (receiving the gift) you must continue in the faith grounded and settled (Colossians 1:23), continuing in God’s goodness (Romans 11:22), in obedience to the commandments of Christ (John 14:23), God (John 3:34), and the apostles (1 Corinthians 14:37) (which all come from the Holy Spirit from God) to receive the end of your faith; the salvation of your soul (1 Peter 1:9).
 
Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#11
Aug 28, 2012
19,502
2,707
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#11
Micaiah-imla said:
Works cannot take away sins or make you righteous in God’s eyes. Even the sacrifices in the old covenant could not take away sins; they only provided forgiveness. And they could not make the worshippers perfect as pertaining to the conscience (Hebrews 9:9). Even if one ceased from sin, the old sins are still there before God and before man’s conscience. This is why there was a remembrance of sins made every year (Hebrews 10:3).

But after Christ’s sacrifice on the cross, all who believe receive forgiveness of sins and the removal of sins from their conscience and are made perfect.

Although the scriptures make it clear that justification can only be obtained by faith (Romans 4:5), it is also clear that after justification (receiving the gift) you must continue in the faith grounded and settled (Colossians 1:23), continuing in God’s goodness (Romans 11:22), in obedience to the commandments of Christ (John 14:23), God (John 3:34), and the apostles (1 Corinthians 14:37) (which all come from the Holy Spirit from God) to receive the end of your faith; the salvation of your soul (1 Peter 1:9).
Click to expand...
Wait so is it another works vs faith kind of doctrine?
 
JohnR7

JohnR7

Banned
#13
Dec 30, 2019
1,266
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#13
Sudakar said:
The life we live, not the words we speak, determines our eternal destiny"
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We have to be very careful, God holds us accountable for every word we speak. Then and now: "But I tell you that men will give an account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. 37For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.” (Matthew 12:36)
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#14
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
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#14
Salvation begins in the New Birth. The New Birth provides a new nature that loves God and hates sin. So holiness and discipleship are built-in. If you need to legalistically act like a Christian it is hypocrisy and nothing more than works of the sinful flesh that cannot save.
 
JohnR7

JohnR7

Banned
#15
Dec 30, 2019
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#15
EleventhHour said:
Salvation is a "gift" by grace through faith apart from any and all works
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Grace is a work of God in us to transform us into the people He created us to be. "Your eyes saw my unformed body; all the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be." (Psalm 139:16) Every chapter and every verse was written at our conception and we have to follow the script that God wrote for us. God ordained for us to fulfill the word of God.

"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God: and the books were opened, and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works (Rev-20:12)."
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#16
Jul 2, 2011
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#16
Anyone who has the gift of faith will automatically do works by availing himself to God-s will. It is the new man, and it demonstrates having fait ,without consciously attempting to demonstrate it. All the children know this.
 
S

Sudakar

Banned
#18
Sep 14, 2019
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#18
JaumeJ said:
Anyone who has the gift of faith will automatically do works by availing himself to God-s will. It is the new man, and it demonstrates having fait ,without consciously attempting to demonstrate it. All the children know this.
Click to expand...
How much works determine you have faith?
 
S

Sudakar

Banned
#19
Sep 14, 2019
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#19
JohnR7 said:
Grace is a work of God in us to transform us into the people He created us to be. "Your eyes saw my unformed body; all the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be." (Psalm 139:16) Every chapter and every verse was written at our conception and we have to follow the script that God wrote for us. God ordained for us to fulfill the word of God.

"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God: and the books were opened, and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works (Rev-20:12)."
Click to expand...
So do you obey Mathew 5:48 in order to escape punishment in judgment?
 
S

Sudakar

Banned
#20
Sep 14, 2019
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#20
Dave-L said:
Salvation begins in the New Birth. The New Birth provides a new nature that loves God and hates sin. So holiness and discipleship are built-in. If you need to legalistically act like a Christian it is hypocrisy and nothing more than works of the sinful flesh that cannot save.
Click to expand...
So faith in Christ's atonement alone is sufficient to save a person?
 
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