Is Catholicism the Oldest Christian Faith?

[Kavik]

False. The priest intercedes as the conduit(because of his position), but he does not forgive one's sins. He prays to God on your behalf.

Not quite right - the priest is acting "in persona Christi".

 

[Nebuchadnezzer]

Who was the original? When did this man establish his office and line of succession?

Great question!

First man of Lawlessness (man of sin) was Caesar. Refer to John 19:15, which points to not just Caesar but the office of Roman Emperor as Tiberius was emperor during Christ's ministry, death and Resurrection.

The Jews chose not Jesus as their King, but only Caesar as their king.

John 19:15
They cried out, “Away with him, away with him, crucify him!” Pilate said to them, “Shall I crucify your King?” The chief priests answered, “We have no king but Caesar.”

Jesus is the son (man of No sin) who's Father is Holy and the God of Heaven.
Caesar is the son (man of sin) who's father is unholy and the god of this world.

recall:
Matthew 6:24
"No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.

No coincidence that when Jesus was questioned about paying taxes he took the denarius to show Caesar's image on the money.

Caesar represents: money, worldliness, evil and the father of lies.
Jesus represents Heavenly treasures, godliness, goodness, and the Father of truth.

The sides have been chosen.

All generations are given a choice between the "Man of Sin" or the "Man of No Sin (Jesus)".

The man of sin has perpetuated throughout all generations from Christ's era to present day and will continue until Christ's return.

For the first few hundred years the Roman Emperor was the "Man of Sin".
Then around 320 - 330 AD the Christians came into unity with Pagan Rome and made Catholicism, which was a compromise of Christianity and Paganism.

Then four 400 years (330aD to 752AD) the Roman Emperor appointed the Roman Pontiff (Bishop of Rome) which was a total corruption of catholicism.

Here is when the Man of Sin transferred from being the Roman Emperor, to being the Roman Pope. The Man of Sin will continue to be the office of the Roman Pontiff until Christ returns.

 

[Nebuchadnezzer]

What you are to the Catholic Church; separated brother or sister.

I believe the Catholic Church can never be reformed.
I completely and fully protest and rebel against the Roman Catholic Church.

 

[Jackson123]

You proclaim what is not the Church without proclaiming what is.

The community that gathered around Jesus was founded on rock. It's doctrine without error, a light shining on a hill, according to Jesus it still is and will be until He returns. So, it's a material reality that can be pointed out. This is what scriptures teach us about the community that gathered around Jesus.

The Truth was heard then without error and Jesus said it is now.
Can you point out that community to me?
Jesus said it's on earth today. The Truth is out there...

Every body that accept Jesus and His teaching is a member of the church. I don't know wich is true church since I can't read the heart of human. One may profess Christian but who knows what is in his heart?

 

[Benadam]

Great question!

First man of Lawlessness (man of sin) was Caesar. Refer to John 19:15, which points to not just Caesar but the office of Roman Emperor as Tiberius was emperor during Christ's ministry, death and Resurrection.

The Jews chose not Jesus as their King, but only Caesar as their king.

John 19:15
They cried out, “Away with him, away with him, crucify him!” Pilate said to them, “Shall I crucify your King?” The chief priests answered, “We have no king but Caesar.”

Jesus is the son (man of No sin) who's Father is Holy and the God of Heaven.
Caesar is the son (man of sin) who's father is unholy and the god of this world.

recall:
Matthew 6:24
"No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.

No coincidence that when Jesus was questioned about paying taxes he took the denarius to show Caesar's image on the money.

Caesar represents: money, worldliness, evil and the father of lies.
Jesus represents Heavenly treasures, godliness, goodness, and the Father of truth.

The sides have been chosen.

All generations are given a choice between the "Man of Sin" or the "Man of No Sin (Jesus)".

The man of sin has perpetuated throughout all generations from Christ's era to present day and will continue until Christ's return.

For the first few hundred years the Roman Emperor was the "Man of Sin".
Then around 320 - 330 AD the Christians came into unity with Pagan Rome and made Catholicism, which was a compromise of Christianity and Paganism.

Then four 400 years (330aD to 752AD) the Roman Emperor appointed the Roman Pontiff (Bishop of Rome) which was a total corruption of catholicism.

Here is when the Man of Sin transferred from being the Roman Emperor, to being the Roman Pope. The Man of Sin will continue to be the office of the Roman Pontiff until Christ returns.

All the previous bishops of Rome were not the man of sin?

 

[tourist]

Every body that accept Jesus and His teaching is a member of the church. I don't know wich is true church since I can't read the heart of human. One may profess Christian but who knows what is in his heart?

Well spoken, brother.

 

[Nebuchadnezzer]

All the previous bishops of Rome were not the man of sin?

I am not sure of the electron or selection process of early Bishops of Rome or early Popes. But this is known historical fact:

The Byzantine Papacy was a period of Byzantine domination of the Roman papacy from 537 to 752, when popes required the approval of the Byzantine Emperor for episcopal consecration, and many popes were chosen from the apocrisiarii (liaisons from the pope to the emperor) or the inhabitants of Byzantine-ruled Greece, Syria, or Sicily. Justinian I conquered the Italian peninsula in the Gothic War (535–554) and appointed the next three popes, a practice that would be continued by his successors and later be delegated to the Exarchate of Ravenna.

At this point (537 AD) onward, the papacy had been corrupted to serve the empire or state.

I believe the office of Roman and the Eastern Roman emperor was the 1st Beast of Revelation.
The office of Roman Pope became the 2nd Beast of Revelation.

Here we can see in the era of the Byzantine Papacy the Pope was corrupted and gave authority over to the Emperor or State. Thus the era of Church and State had been firmly established.

Thereby this is fulfillment of Rev 13:11-12

The Beast out of the Earth
Rev 13:11-12
Then I saw a second beast, coming out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb, but it spoke like a dragon. It exercised all the authority of the first beast on its behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed.


- the Roman Empire healed its wound with Christianity by making it the official state religion.
- The Roman Pope was now corrupted, but maintained the appearance of being a servant of Jesus Christ the Lamb of God. Thus he had two horns like a lamb, but really was a servant and lackey for the Empire or State .

 

[Nebuchadnezzer]

I am not sure of the electron or selection process of early Bishops of Rome or early Popes. But this is known historical fact:

The Byzantine Papacy was a period of Byzantine domination of the Roman papacy from 537 to 752, when popes required the approval of the Byzantine Emperor for episcopal consecration, and many popes were chosen from the apocrisiarii (liaisons from the pope to the emperor) or the inhabitants of Byzantine-ruled Greece, Syria, or Sicily. Justinian I conquered the Italian peninsula in the Gothic War (535–554) and appointed the next three popes, a practice that would be continued by his successors and later be delegated to the Exarchate of Ravenna.

At this point (537 AD) onward, the papacy had been corrupted to serve the empire or state.

I believe the office of Roman and the Eastern Roman emperor was the 1st Beast of Revelation.
The office of Roman Pope became the 2nd Beast of Revelation.

Here we can see in the era of the Byzantine Papacy the Pope was corrupted and gave authority over to the Emperor or State. Thus the era of Church and State had been firmly established.

Thereby this is fulfillment of Rev 13:11-12

The Beast out of the Earth
Rev 13:11-12
Then I saw a second beast, coming out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb, but it spoke like a dragon. It exercised all the authority of the first beast on its behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed.


- the Roman Empire healed its wound with Christianity by making it the official state religion.
- The Roman Pope was now corrupted, but maintained the appearance of being a servant of Jesus Christ the Lamb of God. Thus he had two horns like a lamb, but really was a servant and lackey for the Empire or State .

You cannot serve both Jesus and Caesar [John 19]. You serve one or the other. Some time in early middle ages the office of Pope became a servant for the Roman/Eastern Roman Empire (aka King Caesar) and no longer was a servant of King Jesus. The office of Pope, however, maintained the appearance of being a servant of King Jesus to deceive the world's inhabitants.

Historical Reference
https://courses.lumenlearning.com/suny-hccc-worldhistory/chapter/the-development-of-papal-supremacy/

Rev 13:14 was fulfilled.
Rev 13:14 Because of the signs it was given power to perform on behalf of the first beast, it deceived the inhabitants of the earth.

 

[Nebuchadnezzer]

You cannot serve both Jesus and Caesar [John 19]. You serve one or the other. Some time in early middle ages the office of Pope became a servant for the Roman/Eastern Roman Empire (aka King Caesar) and no longer was a servant of King Jesus. The office of Pope, however, maintained the appearance of being a servant of King Jesus to deceive the world's inhabitants.

Historical Reference
https://courses.lumenlearning.com/suny-hccc-worldhistory/chapter/the-development-of-papal-supremacy/

Rev 13:14 was fulfilled.
Rev 13:14 Because of the signs it was given power to perform on behalf of the first beast, it deceived the inhabitants of the earth.

miracles (signs and wonders) that surround some of the popes, thus completing fulfilment of Rev 13:14.

Rev 13:14 Because of the signs it was given power to perform on behalf of the first beast, it deceived the inhabitants of the earth.[/QUOTE]
https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/12-papal-miracles-an-unscientific-ranking

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Catholicism is not the original Christian doctrine. It originated with man and has changed much during its 1900 years.
The only true doctrine was taught by Jesus and those few men He chose and directed to record His teaching in the Scripture.
It is not about what so called Christian sects, including catholicism, teach, it is all about what Jesus teaches in His Holy Scripture.
It is not for us to interrupt or put our own spin or meaning on Scripture, it is for us to properly study and understand Scripture.
Catholicism has put its own spin and meaning on Scripture for 1900 years.

I agree with you spoonjuly ,The thing Is though ,how would a person know that their or someone's Interpretation of a scripture Is correct though?

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Catholicism did not come first. The original church were not exalting any pope nor praying to Mary and claiming she had no other children and ascended to heaven without dying. Why do you come to a site that views Catholicism as heretical to promote your false beliefs?

Maybe he meant that Catholics are on the same line with the pharisees and the Pharisees were ones that were suppose to be first separated for GODs work.

 

[Benadam]

Every body that accept Jesus and His teaching is a member of the church. I don't know wich is true church since I can't read the heart of human. One may profess Christian but who knows what is in his heart?

Not just anyone was given the promises. No Christian believed that until recently. The only guarantee is to belong to the community that surrounds Jesus since the beginning.

 

[Benadam]

Maybe he meant that Catholics are on the same line with the pharisees and the Pharisees were ones that were suppose to be first separated for GODs work.

speaking of Pharisees, what did Jesus say about their authority to teach the truth of God?

Matt 23

23 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, 2 “The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses’ seat; 3 therefore, do whatever they teach you and follow it; but do not do as they do, for they do not practice what they teach.

 

[Jackson123]

Not just anyone was given the promises. No Christian believed that until recently. The only guarantee is to belong to the community that surrounds Jesus since the beginning.

The community that surround Jesus 2000 years ago was gone.

 

[Funkus]

I believe the Catholic understanding of Mary to be correct and the major mistake of the reformers, and what is worse is the rejection of Mary almost entirely that resulted when they could have modified instead. How often do protestants dwell on the mystery of the incarnation? Very relevant to those interested in being born again. Mary symbolises aspects of the trinity also as well, and more but the main point i wanted to make is although there appears to be a lack of scriptural support for the Catholic Mary this does not mean it wasn't part of the earliest church. I'm tempted to become a Catholic but probably won't I just believe they have it right about Mary and suspect the reformers went too far... they should have stopped when they reached the Mother of Christ

 

[garee]

Really? Are you sure the Church in Paul’s day had an identity with the State as the Lutherans had with Germany, the Calvinists had with Switzerland and the Anglicans with Britain? (Hint: paedobaptism automatically made you a member of the State Church, whereas Jesus said ‘My Kingdom is not of this world).

The Catholics have a different written teaching authority .Sola scriptura makes there written authority without effect. They have another gospel another Christ that they call the Pope and the Bible calls a daysman an abomination of desolation.

Yes the law of the fathers the law of men oral traditions. their master they must serve. . . . usurping the authority of our Father in heaven. It is the same kind of law that makes the law of God without effect in any time period.. No man can serve two teaching Masters God and mankind. Simply different fathers same method of operations.

 

[garee]

I believe the Catholic understanding of Mary to be correct and the major mistake of the reformers, and what is worse is the rejection of Mary almost entirely that resulted when they could have modified instead. How often do protestants dwell on the mystery of the incarnation? Very relevant to those interested in being born again. Mary symbolises aspects of the trinity also as well, and more but the main point i wanted to make is although there appears to be a lack of scriptural support for the Catholic Mary this does not mean it wasn't part of the earliest church. I'm tempted to become a Catholic but probably won't I just believe they have it right about Mary and suspect the reformers went too far... they should have stopped when they reached the Mother of Christ

The flesh of the Son of man no more profited for him than it does us .It was the unseen work of faith a mutual labor of Love (Father and Son) that did profit. .

Faithless Catholiscim looks to the things seen the temporal. Their work of their faith coming from a law of the fathers Simply makes the word of God without effect. No man can serve two written Good Teaching Masters. Jesus said only God not seen is good is our Good Master.. God is not a man he is God.

The son of man was a man just as us. Yet no sin. No power from the flesh needed to rebuke the spirit of error.

When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.John 62-68

So such thing as corrupted flesh of eternal life.

 

[Jackson123]

I believe the Catholic understanding of Mary to be correct and the major mistake of the reformers, and what is worse is the rejection of Mary almost entirely that resulted when they could have modified instead. How often do protestants dwell on the mystery of the incarnation? Very relevant to those interested in being born again. Mary symbolises aspects of the trinity also as well, and more but the main point i wanted to make is although there appears to be a lack of scriptural support for the Catholic Mary this does not mean it wasn't part of the earliest church. I'm tempted to become a Catholic but probably won't I just believe they have it right about Mary and suspect the reformers went too far... they should have stopped when they reached the Mother of Christ

Do you believe Mary able to hear billion catholic pray to her? Is she omnipresent?

 

[Nebuchadnezzer]

I believe the Catholic understanding of Mary to be correct and the major mistake of the reformers, and what is worse is the rejection of Mary almost entirely that resulted when they could have modified instead. How often do protestants dwell on the mystery of the incarnation? Very relevant to those interested in being born again. Mary symbolises aspects of the trinity also as well, and more but the main point i wanted to make is although there appears to be a lack of scriptural support for the Catholic Mary this does not mean it wasn't part of the earliest church. I'm tempted to become a Catholic but probably won't I just believe they have it right about Mary and suspect the reformers went too far... they should have stopped when they reached the Mother of Christ

Mary is not Mary. Mary is a demonic ghost or apparition, claiming to be Mary. Google, "Marian Apparition".
The marian apparitions are indeed real. The marian ghosts, however, do not bring glory to God, she brings glory to her self. look at all her statues and shrines. it is all idolatry. im sorry this is offensive. but i feel you may never been told it this way before.

remember Satan is the god of this world and he has been allowed to perform false miracles and wonders to deceive those who refuse to Love the Gospel truth and so be saved.

 

[garee]

Mary is not Mary. Mary is a demonic ghost or apparition, claiming to be Mary. Google, "Marian Apparition".
The marian apparitions are indeed real. The marian ghosts, however, do not bring glory to God, she brings glory to her self. look at all her statues and shrines. it is all idolatry. im sorry this is offensive. but i feel you may never been told it this way before.

remember Satan is the god of this world and he has been allowed to perform false miracles and wonders to deceive those who refuse to Love the Gospel truth and so be saved.

I would offer.

Mary is the god of human imagination. wonderment. All who love to worship angels as false messengers love to proclaim it. When Jesus was faced with worshiping a angel in Mathew 4 . The father rebuked it giving Jesus His prophet words ."as it is written" three times to establish the law of faith . Experience is not the validator of the unseen spiritual world .We walk as it is written.

We should follow the example of Christ spoken of below

Some people enjoy acting as if they are humble and love to worship angels. They always talk about the visions they have seen. Don’t listen to them when they say you are wrong because you don’t do these things. It is so foolish for them to feel such pride, because it is all based on their own human ideas. Collosian2:18