The sin of refusing sex

[Blain]

personally, I am glad you brought it up.
I've said it here already, but I'll say it again:
if the church doesn't talk about such issues from a biblical standpoint,
then people will be left to get their info from the world........

Is it a sin to disobey Paul's other instructions like this in scripture? If a husband or wife is depriving the other by shutting off sex in the relationship-- isn't depriving wrong?

It depends of the manner of depriving and what you are depriving. God will deprive us of things at times until he thinks it is time to not do so, we are deprived of hidden knowledge until he chooses to make it clear to us, he deprives us of certain paths to walk until the appointed time and if we deprive sex if it is according to the spirits guiding then it is not sin.

We can want sex our flesh craves it but since when do we ever know the difference between what we want and what we need?

 

[Kim82]

Yeah, that would be wrong and that type of attitude and behavior does not have to be tolerated.

OK...so what is the solution?

1)Get divorced?
2)adultery?
3) force your spouse to give you what you want?
4) watch inappropriate content on TV/internet?

 

[Blain]

OK...so what is the solution?

1)Get divorced?
2)adultery?
3) force your spouse to give you what you want?
4) watch inappropriate content on TV/internet?

Well if the spouce was unfaithful then by that means the contract made in marriage was broken and gives biblical reason for divorce but if we divorce for reasons like arguments I don't think it is really biblacal. But the topic of divorce is another topic that is not discussed much in the church not as little as sex but still it is a lacking subject.

Adultery is obvious, to do that to your spouse is in my view horrendous. Men are typically viewed as the ones to do this but that also is another stereo type that I think is a bit exaggerated although I have never understood how people are able to do this but in that case it isn't the thought itself of doing it that is the sin but the act itself and by those actions the contract made in those vows are broken and thus divorce is then a biblical reason but it also is a choice some couples love each other so much they try to stay together.
As for the other two well.... knowing you I am sure you know the answer already

 

[presidente]

It depends of the manner of depriving and what you are depriving. God will deprive us of things at times until he thinks it is time to not do so, we are deprived of hidden knowledge until he chooses to make it clear to us, he deprives us of certain paths to walk until the appointed time and if we deprive sex if it is according to the spirits guiding then it is not sin.

We can want sex our flesh craves it but since when do we ever know the difference between what we want and what we need?

But the Bible does not command God not to deprive His children of hidden knowledge. The Bible does not contain commandments to God.

 

[presidente]

Well if the spouce was unfaithful then by that means the contract made in marriage was broken and gives biblical reason for divorce but if we divorce for reasons like arguments I don't think it is really biblacal.

I think we have to be careful viewing marriage as a contract, which, if broken frees both parties. There are things in wedding vows, especially the 'right-your-own vows' version that can extend beyond what is Biblically required of marriage. I saw a ceremony on TV where a wife said she would cook her husband breakfast every Saturday morning. So if she gets sick one Friday night and sleeps until 12:01 on Saturday, does he have grounds for divorce for her breaking her wedding vows? She may be guilty of lying, or even of breaking an oath if she swore it. That's a sin, but that doesn't mean her husband can divorce her.

A wife should submit to and obey her husband, and if 'obey' is included in the wedding vows as it used to be, and she disobeys her husband, she may be breaking her promise and sinning, but that doesn't mean it is right for her husband to divorce her.

And if he doesn't cherish her enough one day when they get into an argument, that doesn't mean she should divorce him. And if he agreed to 'forsaking all others' and he spends too much time with his parents or friends one weekend and leaves his wife in the house alone, that doesn't mean she should divorce him.

 

[presidente]

We can want sex our flesh craves it but since when do we ever know the difference between what we want and what we need?

The word 'lusts' in 'lusts of the flesh' is typically used of illegitimate desires in the context of scripture. It is used in the Greek Septuagint translation of the OT in reference to coveting in the command 'Thou shalt not covet.'

Paul's instructions have the husband and wife taking care of one another's sexual needs, but abstaining for fasting which is mutually agreed upon, and for a limited period of time. If you concerned that bodily urges may be too important, the solution there is fasting, but with mutual consent, not the consent of one party.

That being said, there are other practice reasons why a man and wife must abstain from sex at times due to business and health-related concerns.

 

[Blain]

I think we have to be careful viewing marriage as a contract, which, if broken frees both parties. There are things in wedding vows, especially the 'right-your-own vows' version that can extend beyond what is Biblically required of marriage. I saw a ceremony on TV where a wife said she would cook her husband breakfast every Saturday morning. So if she gets sick one Friday night and sleeps until 12:01 on Saturday, does he have grounds for divorce for her breaking her wedding vows? She may be guilty of lying, or even of breaking an oath if she swore it. That's a sin, but that doesn't mean her husband can divorce her.

A wife should submit to and obey her husband, and if 'obey' is included in the wedding vows as it used to be, and she disobeys her husband, she may be breaking her promise and sinning, but that doesn't mean it is right for her husband to divorce her.

And if he doesn't cherish her enough one day when they get into an argument, that doesn't mean she should divorce him. And if he agreed to 'forsaking all others' and he spends too much time with his parents or friends one weekend and leaves his wife in the house alone, that doesn't mean she should divorce him.

Well when I say contract I mean it more like a covenant of the heart’s

 

[tourist]

OK...so what is the solution?

1)Get divorced?
2)adultery?
3) force your spouse to give you what you want?
4) watch inappropriate content on TV/internet?

Not really sure that there is a solution. Regarding divorce, that perhaps depends on there are positive aspects that make the marriage tolerable. Really, what would be gained by spending years in abject misery because your spouse is cold and lacks love toward you.

 

[Kim82]

For me, marriage is more about companionship than sex.

I've been single for many years. And if it's one thing I've learned. There are other more important things in life.

While I was reading through the comments, it occurred to me that some were saying that sex is a chore. An obligation that must be done whether you want to or not. Oh my, what a prison that must be.

I feel that its a little unfair to say, if you didn't want sex then you shouldn't get married. Well, who can say before marriage how often they'll want to have sex? Isn't that a conclusion they come to after they're married? Well, I don't know, but that's what I think. Remember we are not to have sex before marriage, but after. So how can a person say with certainty how it will be after marriage, especially if that person is a virgin?

So for me, its just something that is done when you feel like doing so, it's not an obligation or chore. And if your spouse doesn't want to have sex, then you can just cuddle with them and that should be enough.

Also you don't need to be intimate with your spouse to prove that you love them. There are so many other ways to show love.

Do you know that when we get to heaven, no one will live as husband and wife there? Think about that one.

I'm not anti-sex by the way. But I just feel you should be happy in your marriage, even if your spouse does not want to be intimate with you.

 

[Susanna]

Tourist and Kim82: You are both right.

 

[TheIndianGirl]

It's good for single people to know what the Biblical expectations are about marriage before deciding to marry.

Yes. I think a sizable portion of women get married to have children and family, so after having children they are not as interested in having sex. However, men still expect sex.

 

[Mii]

If this is a discussion you feel is out of your depth and you are trying to maintain purity, I understand. But if you are considering marriage, you need to settle these issues before you are married and not after. The problem is most pastors do not give any counsel in this area or just bad advice. You need to understand before you marry your body is not your own. That sex is sacred, and should never be used as a punishment. It's an act of love, it's important in your relationship and keeps you from the sin of adultery. People need to discuss details of their expectations in this area too, before they commit to each other for the rest of their lives. I won't go into detail and I hope I haven't gone too far in discussing this with you. But people need to be more aware of this before marriage because it could save a lot of heartache in the long run.

Ok, well I thought I was clear. It could be that it's my portion to teach stuff like this, but the formatting is open to debate. It makes sense to me that even them that have the gift of teaching still need instruction in certain areas from other believers and not always from the Lord directly, but that is frustrating quite frankly. I have little desire to start a thread about it because my singleness has been causing me a fair bit of pain lately so I'll just exit and apologies for potentially going off "main topic". Given me some things to think about, thanks.

There are a lot of unknowns as @Kim82 said if you are without experience and since I have little idea what I will encounter in reality...I can just pray and be hopeful that my wife just gets it like I do and the most important facets of our relationship is agreement in spirit with HIS spirit.

End seriousness. A productive discussion to you all.

 

[kaylagrl]

It depends of the manner of depriving and what you are depriving. God will deprive us of things at times until he thinks it is time to not do so, we are deprived of hidden knowledge until he chooses to make it clear to us, he deprives us of certain paths to walk until the appointed time and if we deprive sex if it is according to the spirits guiding then it is not sin.

We can want sex our flesh craves it but since when do we ever know the difference between what we want and what we need?

No, I'm sorry, not to be rude, but the verse is saying straight out, do not deprive your partner. Don't give room for temptation. You're saying the opposite of what the verse is saying.

 

[kaylagrl]

Yes. I think a sizable portion of women get married to have children and family, so after having children they are not as interested in having sex. However, men still expect sex.

Yes and they have a right to expect sex, that's part of fulfilling each others needs.

 

[presidente]

While I was reading through the comments, it occurred to me that some were saying that sex is a chore. An obligation that must be done whether you want to or not. Oh my, what a prison that must be.

I feel that its a little unfair to say, if you didn't want sex then you shouldn't get married. Well, who can say before marriage how often they'll want to have sex? Isn't that a conclusion they come to after they're married? Well, I don't know, but that's what I think. Remember we are not to have sex before marriage, but after. So how can a person say with certainty how it will be after marriage, especially if that person is a virgin?

That is a good point. For some people, though, even before marriage, they know it will be something important to them. Some Christian men struggle trying not to think about sex, averting their eyes, hoping one day to marry and fulfill those desires. Then, they marry, expecting fulfillment. If the woman thinks of sex as something you have just to have kids--- "okay, once on the wedding night, and two more times to have two kids...." that isn't going to work out well. And in some marriages, it is the woman who wants more sex than the man.

It is good for both to go into marriage realizing they will need to have sex to fulfill their partner's desires, not just their own. If having sex is like 'prison', then maybe there are some physilogical issues, or maybe someone is not doing it right-- rushing toward self-satisfaction maybe, and not taking care of their partner's needs.

 

[GardenofWeeden]

It's not on me to decide what is a sin or not, however from experience I can tell you, the more often a married couple enjoys each other intimately the closer they remain to each other. It's a physical/emotional/mental thing.

 

[Kim82]

For some people, though, even before marriage, they know it will be something important to them.

For these people they should ensure that they get married to someone who feels the same.

And for persons who love their single life, perhaps they need to consider carefully if marriage is appropriate for them.

And if someone has any issues then they should be honest about it before getting married.

But then, there are marriages that start off perfectly fine, but as time goes on:

one partner gets board.

they may no longer be attracted to their partner.

They have disagreements

Money issues that can cause stress

Mental issues

Lack of trust

Family interference

And the list goes on

If these issues aren't sorted out, it will affect intimacy.

When someone is hurt, stressed, tired, or depressed, yet still have to be intimate because their spouse thinks it's their right. Yes, to me that's like being in prison.

Before someone demands intimacy, they must first ensure that they have resolved those other issues.

maybe someone is not doing it right-- rushing toward self-satisfaction maybe, and not taking care of their partner's needs.

This also is prison. If someone does not know how to do things properly, what right do they have to demand their rights?

Let everything be done orderly, and decently, that is what the good book says.

 

[kaylagrl]

For these people they should ensure that they get married to someone who feels the same.

And for persons who love their single life, perhaps they need to consider carefully if marriage is appropriate for them.

And if someone has any issues then they should be honest about it before getting married.

But then, there are marriages that start off perfectly fine, but as time goes on:

one partner gets board.

they may no longer be attracted to their partner.

They have disagreements

Money issues that can cause stress

Mental issues

Lack of trust

Family interference

And the list goes on

If these issues aren't sorted out, it will affect intimacy.

When someone is hurt, stressed, tired, or depressed, yet still have to be intimate because their spouse thinks it's their right. Yes, to me that's like being in prison..

But it is their right. The Bible says when you marry your body is no longer your own. If you have lack of trust you have a serious problem and you better get help, and fast. None of the other issues are reason for witholding sex from your partner. The Bible tells you not to withold, and for good reason. We were created to become one with our partner and intimacy is part of that.

Before someone demands intimacy, they must first ensure that they have resolved those other issues..

Your husband should never have to demand sex from you. It is fulfilling one anothers needs. It shows your love for your partner. It's not a Biblical POV of sex. It is how we were created.

This also is prison. If someone does not know how to do things properly, what right do they have to demand their rights?

Let everything be done orderly, and decently, that is what the good book says.

You learn to do things properly as a couple by communicating your needs. If you can't then you go for help. Demanding rights is not a phrase to be used in a Christian marriage. You belong to each other.

 

[presidente]

It depends of the manner of depriving and what you are depriving. God will deprive us of things at times until he thinks it is time to not do so, we are deprived of hidden knowledge until he chooses to make it clear to us, he deprives us of certain paths to walk until the appointed time and if we deprive sex if it is according to the spirits guiding then it is not sin.

We can want sex our flesh craves it but since when do we ever know the difference between what we want and what we need?

So if you are married and your wife were after you for sex a few times a week, would you make this speech to her and turn her down? The Bible says not to deprive one another. We just follow that. If God doesn't want us to have something we desire in life because the desire is carnal and contrary to His will, He can make His own decisions based on that. I'm not going to deprive my wife of something the Bible teaches is her right because I think i can teach her some spiritual lesson.

 

[tourist]

OK...so what is the solution?

1)Get divorced?
2)adultery?
3) force your spouse to give you what you want?
4) watch inappropriate content on TV/internet?

Option #4 seems like the least harmful choice.