Will the mark alone send a person to eternal damnation?

[azamzimtoti]

A physical salvation from their enemies so they could be a people of God and serve Him without fear. For hundreds of years they’ve been under the control of other kingdoms. They were awaiting their promised King to restore Israel to her glory. What they didn’t realize, because it was hidden from them, is this King would first come to die for their sins. They could not inherit the physical kingdom in sin. They had to be delivered from their sins, then the physical could be given.

This is classic dispensational error. The promise was not a physical kingdom, but life in Christ, the apostates rejected this.

Paul said the believing elect were receiving the promises through the gospel:

(Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded)

If the elect "hath obtained it" how can it be said that what was being sought was a physical kingdom?

 

[Guojing]

There are two Israels in the bible, which one is God talking about in Jeremiah?

God always sees Israel as all 12 tribes, Elijah showed it to all of us in 1 Kings 18

31 And Elijah took twelve stones, according to the number of the tribes of the sons of Jacob, unto whom the word of the Lord came, saying, Israel shall be thy name:

 

[KJV1611]

God always sees Israel as all 12 tribes, Elijah showed it to all of us in 1 Kings 18

31 And Elijah took twelve stones, according to the number of the tribes of the sons of Jacob, unto whom the word of the Lord came, saying, Israel shall be thy name:

Which Israel are talking about?

 

[Guojing]

Which Israel are talking about?

The 12 tribes, as stated.

 

[iamsoandso]

Anybody here named Markus?

The dialog first and then we lay in bed and ponder those things and the questions begin or they are answered my friend,,,do you have any questions or are they all answered?

 

[oyster67]

The promise was not a physical kingdom, but life in Christ

Don't you think it is both? The 'game' is not over yet. Don't lose hope in the glorious future that awaits all who trust in Jesus.

 

[KJV1611]

The 12 tribes, as stated.

The 12 tribes isn't an answer. Is it the flesh descendants or God's elect?

 

[KJV1611]

Don't you think it is both? The 'game' is not over yet. Don't lose hope in the glorious future that awaits all who trust in Jesus.

I'm wondering that same thing about "both", but so far I can't see a physical kingdom in the bible.

 

[oyster67]

I'm wondering that same thing about "both", but so far I can't see a physical kingdom in the bible.

The future Millennium and/or New Jerusalem come down out of Heaven?

 

[KJV1611]

The future Millennium and/or New Jerusalem come down out of Heaven?

I'm on the fince about that one oyster67. I used to think that's a future kingdom but I'm not so sure it is now.

 

[oyster67]

I'm on the fince about that one oyster67. I used to think that's a future kingdom but I'm not so sure it is now.

Thou moost get ouf de' fince den

 

[KJV1611]

Thou moost get ouf de' fince den

lol.. My feet are almost on the ground on the "it's not a future kingdom" side.

 

[oyster67]

lol.. My feet are almost on the ground on the "it's not a future kingdom" side.

You would agree that the future eternal "Kingdom of Heaven" is much more 'real' than the temporal situation of the world we live in today, yes?

 

[KJV1611]

You would agree that the future eternal "Kingdom of Heaven" is much more 'real' than the temporal situation of the world we live in today, yes?

I do agree.

 

[oyster67]

Hebrews 11
11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
11:9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as [in] a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker [is] God.
11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of [them], and embraced [them], and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
11:14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
11:15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that [country] from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
11:16 But now they desire a better [country], that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

 

[azamzimtoti]

Hebrews 11
11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
11:9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as [in] a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker [is] God.
11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of [them], and embraced [them], and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
11:14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
11:15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that [country] from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
11:16 But now they desire a better [country], that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

The heavenly city/country that "Abraham and the sojourners looked for" was established in the 1st century:

(Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels)

To look for a physical "better country" based on dirt in the middle east is to misunderstand the nature of the country/city that they sought after.

 

[KJV1611]

The heavenly city/country that "Abraham and the sojourners looked for" was established in the 1st century:

(Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels)

To look for a physical "better country" based on dirt in the middle east is to misunderstand the nature of the country/city that they sought after.

How do you see this creation coming to an end?

 

[azamzimtoti]

How do you see this creation coming to an end?

I don't 16:

(Eph 3:21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen)

(Eccl 1:4 One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.)

 

[KJV1611]

I don't 16:

(Eph 3:21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen)

(Eccl 1:4 One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.)

I'm starting to think that way too. That's what I meant by I'm still carrying dispensational baggage.

 

[azamzimtoti]

I'm starting to think that way too. That's what I meant by I'm still carrying dispensational baggage.

Paul is basically saying the church age never ends, therefore the dispensational claim of it ending then the "plan" with "Israel" takes over contradicts Eph 3:21.