The word of faith and the gifts

[MessageOfTheCross]

Are you saying a certain teaching is of the flesh? Or just making a umbrella statement?

Apostle Paul said, "We preach Christ Crucified (1 Cor. 1:23). He also said, "For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and Him Crucified (1 Cor. 2:2). Why would the Apostle Paul say such a thing? Because that is the only way that our Lord Jesus Christ gives us victory over sin, the world, the flesh, and the Devil! All teaching that doesn't point you to Calvary is of the Devil.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Apostle Paul said, "We preach Christ Crucified (1 Cor. 1:23). He also said, "For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and Him Crucified (1 Cor. 2:2). Why would the Apostle Paul say such a thing? Because that is the only way!

What does this have to do with the OP? Your not explaining yourself within the context of the OP. It was a random comment and I still dont see a correlation to the OP.

If random was the mission then I'll agree with your statement and leave it at that.

 

[Blain]

Blain, what aspect of Word of Faith is your friend being drawn back to by the Lord, in her opinion? What area? Healing? Finances? If it is healing, and the Lord is leading you to study the gifts of the Spirit, maybe the Lord wants her or you to comprehend the gift of healing and maybe even administer it by the leading of the Holy Spirit?

Maybe it is something He has instilled in you or her, and as I’ve heard, the gifts are tools for the job. It is the manifestation of the Spirit given to all, and while not everyone operates in all the gifts it doesn’t mean someone can’t at different times and places. How can someone seek a spiritual gift such a prophecy if someone couldn’t operate in all the gifts? What’s the purpose of seeking them, if unattainable?

Anyways, maybe what she desires is found by the manifestation of the Holy Spirit?

Hey Ben I haven't seen you in a while Sadly because she is in australia our time zones are pretty far apart so it takes her a good while top respond. I am not sure what part of it she is being drawn to she only said she feels God tugging her towards it. and recently I had a spiritual experience in which all day it seemed as if my room was surrounded in the spirit and this is when the gifts after talking to her came to mind and I actually was asking on this mini forum we have here called conversations about healing in praticular because while I have seen him use me to do inner healings using my ability and gift of written words I have never been able to hel in the form of prayer whether that is inner or outer healing but I just felt drawn to it that day.

I have asked for the gift before but I always felt a block in the spirit when I did and so I wondered if maybe I just can't have it. I mean if I myself cannot ever be healed that is fine with me but it's others I want him to use me for.

 

[Nehemiah6]

So wait the prosperity gospel is based from the wof? If I had that kind of faith I would use it to help others not for my own desires...

That would be the true Christian attitude. However, the WOF preachers are enriching themselves at the expense of poor, gullible Christians, and maintaining lavish lifestyles, while they tell their hearers to have more faith. It is a perversion of the Gospel.

 

[Blain]

I once did a study on this but to know what gifts you may have involves knowing what gifts are given.

Romans 12
exhortation
giving
leadership
mercy
prophecy
service
teaching

1 Corinthians 12
discernment
faith
healings
knowledge
miracles
prophecy
teaching
tongues
tongues interpretation
wisdom

Ephesians 4
evangelism
pastor
prophecy
teaching

Of course it you study this you will find some add more but for discussion here is a basic example.

Usually even if you do not feel confident in admitting a gift, usually others would outwardly confirm such gifts.

As mine was in teaching. I wasn't confident to do so but had a outward Spiritual experience from a man who knew my thoughts, told me his message, laid hands on me, and at that point I no longer could doubt such a experience.

Well some of them I do think I might have but others I don't know. Mercy, giving, serving these three here line up with my character perfectly prophecy wisdom and knowledge are as well but these ones are from him through me the other three are more like fruits that just naturally fit who I am. I have been told I should be a teacher and I admit sometimes I imagine myself as a pastor as I am not afraid to stand and speak in public and I have done so before on topics of God but I doubt I could be a leader I am more of the supportive type

 

[Blain]

What does this have to do with the OP? Your not explaining yourself within the context of the OP. It was a random comment and I still dont see a correlation to the OP.

If random was the mission then I'll agree with your statement and leave it at that.

I was quite confused in a thread he made about the verse where your heart is so is your treasure it seemed like a topic that was about that but he kept talking about this stuff so I was very confused as well. It almost seemed like the real topic he wanted to discuss was his username and I asked him many questions regarding the obedience and the cross he kept implying .
I think maybe he just wants to talk about that

 

[Blain]

That would be the true Christian attitude. However, the WOF preachers are enriching themselves at the expense of poor, gullible Christians, and maintaining lavish lifestyles, while they tell their hearers to have more faith. It is a perversion of the Gospel.

I meant to respond to you earlier but the internet has been a pain today. These types of people are what I call extremists, God never forbade anyone asking for things for ourselves he knows we have needs and I am sure money is alaways an issue and I have learned a good friend of mine recieved a financial miracle the other day.
But, the spirit is not to be abused and for those who do so I am surprised they are not scared of how angry it must make God.
And besides for the most part the gifts are to be given they are not always for us in particular and when you know the joy of the spirit how can you not want to give everything he gives you? This is why I fear for new believers.... so many can and will not hesitate to destroy them.

 

[bojack]

I still don't understand the WOF thing, are they for or against Jesus ? I'm against any who deny Jesus or forces Him to share His glory with other gods ..
I've been guilty too ..
2 Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.
3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

 

[Dave-L]

The WoF movement operates on the same basis as today's false evangelism. It's a system of works that places God in debt to save or give you what you think he owes you. Because you met the conditions for receiving that you think are there but are not.

 

[bojack]

The WoF movement operates on the same basis as today's false evangelism. It's a system of works that places God in debt to save or give you what you think he owes you. Because you met the conditions for receiving that you think are there but are not.

And you can't think of anything else to bash like going to any street corner and witnessing Jesus or other places where folks need Jesus or other ministry beside pretending you're Gods little self appointed church policeman .. Even perhaps you're own church first ..

 

[Colookstal91]

So I was talking to a friend ealier and she explained to me how severely she was damaaged by the word of faith doctrine but how God seems to be drawing her near it. I will not say who or why for privacy purposes but it is something I wanted to talk about as my explanation to her had to do with the gifts of the spirit and for the past two days God has been tugging at me to take a deeper dive into the subject of the gifts perhaps to gain a better understanding of them or perhaps to reveal something about them I knew not but in this particular thing I believe God lead me to this friend for a reason and this thread being one of them.

So the word of faith doctrine. As I understand it the wof believe in proclaiming something and believing fully you recieve it not just in recieving things but if you proclaim someone to be healed they are healed no if and's or but's and if I am off base I apologize. However they also seem to think if you do this and don't recieve it then it is because you lack the faith as everyone should be able to do all things with faith and again if I am off base I apologize.

Now here is my take and what I said to my friend as well. I do think there is a validation to the wof to a point I admire having the kind of faith to proclaim something and fully believe you recieve it but the mistake and where the damage is done is the fact that if you lack faith you will not recieve it. Now here is the part where the gifts come into play. The gift of faith is an actual spiritual gift however there is something about the gifts not understood by some. We can all walk in the gifts however not all are called to them, being called meaning not all thrive in them or excel.

For instance I have the faith to be able to place my trust in him even in the worst of times so some might say I have the gift of faith however I do not believe I excel in it as one would in the wof because for the life of me I cannot proclaim something and fully believe. I understand that wof is not a very well liked doctrine but I also do believe it is a valid teaching just not in that degree that seems to have caused so much grief for it.

We all are called to different ministries and different gifts and we all excel in certain gifts walk in certain gifts and some we don't walk in at all and I think this misunderstanding is a major problem in how our views are affected.

It is matter of personal thinking and believes. When we think more about desire then whole things like body, mind and nature are engaging to give you.

 

[Dave-L]

And you can't think of anything else to bash like going to any street corner and witnessing Jesus or other places where folks need Jesus or other ministry beside pretending you're Gods little self appointed church policeman .. Even perhaps you're own church first ..

How could I live with myself after seeing over 100 people killed from easily treated illnesses by a WoF teacher? also a casualty of the WoF movement? Do you think I might know how evil it is having survived it? I did a long hard study finding out why.

 

[bojack]

How could I live with myself after seeing over 100 people killed from easily treated illnesses by a WoF teacher? also a casualty of the WoF movement? Do you think I might know how evil it is having survived it? I did a long hard study finding out why.

How many are killed and lives ruined by drugs and alcohol every day who haven't been told ? I don't get out much but for years I did and there were times I was just happy to be at any sanctuary on Sunday that called on Jesus name and get Sabbath rest from the world , funny how I could see past all the faults at any church ..

 

[Dave-L]

How many are killed and lives ruined by drugs and alcohol every day who haven't been told ? I don't get out much but for years I did and there were times I was just happy to be at any sanctuary on Sunday that called on Jesus name and get Sabbath rest from the world , funny how I could see past all the faults at any church ..

But why send them to a quack?

 

[oyster67]

So I was talking to a friend ealier and she explained to me how severely she was damaaged by the word of faith doctrine but how God seems to be drawing her near it. I will not say who or why for privacy purposes but it is something I wanted to talk about as my explanation to her had to do with the gifts of the spirit and for the past two days God has been tugging at me to take a deeper dive into the subject of the gifts perhaps to gain a better understanding of them or perhaps to reveal something about them I knew not but in this particular thing I believe God lead me to this friend for a reason and this thread being one of them.

So the word of faith doctrine. As I understand it the wof believe in proclaiming something and believing fully you recieve it not just in recieving things but if you proclaim someone to be healed they are healed no if and's or but's and if I am off base I apologize. However they also seem to think if you do this and don't recieve it then it is because you lack the faith as everyone should be able to do all things with faith and again if I am off base I apologize.

Now here is my take and what I said to my friend as well. I do think there is a validation to the wof to a point I admire having the kind of faith to proclaim something and fully believe you recieve it but the mistake and where the damage is done is the fact that if you lack faith you will not recieve it. Now here is the part where the gifts come into play. The gift of faith is an actual spiritual gift however there is something about the gifts not understood by some. We can all walk in the gifts however not all are called to them, being called meaning not all thrive in them or excel.

For instance I have the faith to be able to place my trust in him even in the worst of times so some might say I have the gift of faith however I do not believe I excel in it as one would in the wof because for the life of me I cannot proclaim something and fully believe. I understand that wof is not a very well liked doctrine but I also do believe it is a valid teaching just not in that degree that seems to have caused so much grief for it.

We all are called to different ministries and different gifts and we all excel in certain gifts walk in certain gifts and some we don't walk in at all and I think this misunderstanding is a major problem in how our views are affected.

WOF is a world of foolishness. Our Heavenly Father, like any good parent, will say 'no' to any request that is not in our better interest in the long run. Father knows best. Just trust Him.

 

[bojack]

But why send them to a quack?

I sent them to Jesus, not my problem where he sends them or they end up and that I could care less except they find their own Jesus believing church . I've never went out in the name of any church

 

[oyster67]

I sent them to Jesus, not my problem where he sends them or they end up and that I could care less except they find their own Jesus believing church . I've never went out in the name of any church

It is a sad situation we find ourselves in today. I am even hesitant to recommend them to the any of the local 'churches' in my area.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Well some of them I do think I might have but others I don't know. Mercy, giving, serving these three here line up with my character perfectly prophecy wisdom and knowledge are as well but these ones are from him through me the other three are more like fruits that just naturally fit who I am. I have been told I should be a teacher and I admit sometimes I imagine myself as a pastor as I am not afraid to stand and speak in public and I have done so before on topics of God but I doubt I could be a leader I am more of the supportive type

I think it is also good not to get so bogged down on technicalities. If your good at something, use it. If your not good at something you can explore it and you will find out if the Spirit wants you in that area or not.

The Spirit is your helper. It will guide you. If you inwardly feel like you would be good at something that can be the Spirit trying to persuade you. But if your denials stop it from manifestation then the flesh has won.

 

[miknik5]

Nevermind, Dave...I saw False after I had already posted and deleted my question

 

[miknik5]

Apostle Paul said, "We preach Christ Crucified (1 Cor. 1:23). He also said, "For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and Him Crucified (1 Cor. 2:2). Why would the Apostle Paul say such a thing? Because that is the only way that our Lord Jesus Christ gives us victory over sin, the world, the flesh, and the Devil! All teaching that doesn't point you to Calvary is of the Devil.

He also said lay NO OTHER FOUNDATION then the ONE laid...and THAT also is CHRIST and the MESSAGE of THE CROSS.