The word of faith and the gifts

[Blain]

So I was talking to a friend ealier and she explained to me how severely she was damaaged by the word of faith doctrine but how God seems to be drawing her near it. I will not say who or why for privacy purposes but it is something I wanted to talk about as my explanation to her had to do with the gifts of the spirit and for the past two days God has been tugging at me to take a deeper dive into the subject of the gifts perhaps to gain a better understanding of them or perhaps to reveal something about them I knew not but in this particular thing I believe God lead me to this friend for a reason and this thread being one of them.

So the word of faith doctrine. As I understand it the wof believe in proclaiming something and believing fully you recieve it not just in recieving things but if you proclaim someone to be healed they are healed no if and's or but's and if I am off base I apologize. However they also seem to think if you do this and don't recieve it then it is because you lack the faith as everyone should be able to do all things with faith and again if I am off base I apologize.

Now here is my take and what I said to my friend as well. I do think there is a validation to the wof to a point I admire having the kind of faith to proclaim something and fully believe you recieve it but the mistake and where the damage is done is the fact that if you lack faith you will not recieve it. Now here is the part where the gifts come into play. The gift of faith is an actual spiritual gift however there is something about the gifts not understood by some. We can all walk in the gifts however not all are called to them, being called meaning not all thrive in them or excel.

For instance I have the faith to be able to place my trust in him even in the worst of times so some might say I have the gift of faith however I do not believe I excel in it as one would in the wof because for the life of me I cannot proclaim something and fully believe. I understand that wof is not a very well liked doctrine but I also do believe it is a valid teaching just not in that degree that seems to have caused so much grief for it.

We all are called to different ministries and different gifts and we all excel in certain gifts walk in certain gifts and some we don't walk in at all and I think this misunderstanding is a major problem in how our views are affected.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

So I was talking to a friend ealier and she explained to me how severely she was damaaged by the word of faith doctrine but how God seems to be drawing her near it. I will not say who or why for privacy purposes but it is something I wanted to talk about as my explanation to her had to do with the gifts of the spirit and for the past two days God has been tugging at me to take a deeper dive into the subject of the gifts perhaps to gain a better understanding of them or perhaps to reveal something about them I knew not but in this particular thing I believe God lead me to this friend for a reason and this thread being one of them.

So the word of faith doctrine. As I understand it the wof believe in proclaiming something and believing fully you recieve it not just in recieving things but if you proclaim someone to be healed they are healed no if and's or but's and if I am off base I apologize. However they also seem to think if you do this and don't recieve it then it is because you lack the faith as everyone should be able to do all things with faith and again if I am off base I apologize.

Now here is my take and what I said to my friend as well. I do think there is a validation to the wof to a point I admire having the kind of faith to proclaim something and fully believe you recieve it but the mistake and where the damage is done is the fact that if you lack faith you will not recieve it. Now here is the part where the gifts come into play. The gift of faith is an actual spiritual gift however there is something about the gifts not understood by some. We can all walk in the gifts however not all are called to them, being called meaning not all thrive in them or excel.

For instance I have the faith to be able to place my trust in him even in the worst of times so some might say I have the gift of faith however I do not believe I excel in it as one would in the wof because for the life of me I cannot proclaim something and fully believe. I understand that wof is not a very well liked doctrine but I also do believe it is a valid teaching just not in that degree that seems to have caused so much grief for it.

We all are called to different ministries and different gifts and we all excel in certain gifts walk in certain gifts and some we don't walk in at all and I think this misunderstanding is a major problem in how our views are affected.

1 Corinthians 12:1-11 New International Version (NIV)
Concerning Spiritual Gifts
12 Now about the gifts of the Spirit, brothers and sisters, I do not want you to be uninformed. 2 You know that when you were pagans, somehow or other you were influenced and led astray to mute idols. 3 Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

4 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. 5 There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6 There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work.

7 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8 To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. 11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.

It is important to remember that the Spirit distributes these gifts meaning everyone will not have the same gifts but only within the will of the Spirit.

Word of faith movement is similar to other movements as in they use the same Biblical language but different interpretations.

I personally feel like they make God a genie as it also dances with the prosperity gospel teachings. If you believe or ask it will be given. There are scriptures with this similar idea but these groups take it to unbiblical heights especially if you add the part that failure in faith was the reason your child wasn't healed, etc.

It is very manipulative doctrines in my opinion.

 

[Blain]

1 Corinthians 12:1-11 New International Version (NIV)
Concerning Spiritual Gifts
12 Now about the gifts of the Spirit, brothers and sisters, I do not want you to be uninformed. 2 You know that when you were pagans, somehow or other you were influenced and led astray to mute idols. 3 Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

4 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. 5 There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6 There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work.

7 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8 To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. 11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.

It is important to remember that the Spirit distributes these gifts meaning everyone will not have the same gifts but only within the will of the Spirit.

Word of faith movement is similar to other movements as in they use the same Biblical language but different interpretations.

I personally feel like they make God a genie as it also dances with the prosperity gospel teachings. If you believe or ask it will be given. There are scriptures with this similar idea but these groups take it to unbiblical heights especially if you add the part that failure in faith was the reason your child wasn't healed, etc.

It is very manipulative doctrines in my opinion.

Yes that is exactly why I think that while I do admire that kind of faith they take it to another level and that is where the problem and the damage to others is done. Jesus says ask you will recieve, I knew a person who a few years back was part of the wof, he found when he was saved that he could ask and he just believed he would recieve it and most of the time he did. He said that it just felt natural to him he had faith and knew somehow he would receive it but he joined the wof because he wanted to be with believers who also walked in this gift to learn and grow from them and to have prayer together to help others

But after a bit he saw how the wof was and noticed they were shattering other peoples faith when they failed to od as they taught lacking faith is the reason for it apparently. he left it telling them that they were to strict and went to far he once saw a little girl crying because of this kind of treatment and was appalled
However he was not able to have the gift of prophecy even when he asked and that is why I explained to him how the gifts work. had he stayed in the wof I can only imagine how damaged his faith would have become.

The point of this story is that exactly like my friend we can have that kind of faith it is a real thing but not everyone is gifted in this area. it's exactly like a tree trees have many branches and we are the pranches of the tree that is christ but not every branch is the same some extend further than others some produce fruits more than antoher and some are more solid in certain parts of it than others as well.

I hope to be able to learn more about the gifts and what gifts I myself have and how I can have God use me more, but hopefully my op was helpful to anyone who needs it.

 

[Nehemiah6]

So the word of faith doctrine. As I understand it the wof believe in proclaiming something and believing fully you recieve it not just in recieving things but if you proclaim someone to be healed they are healed no if and's or but's and if I am off base I apologize

You have understood it correctly.

Question: "Is the Word of Faith movement biblical?"
Answer: Word of Faith teaching is decidedly unbiblical. It is not a denomination and does not have a formal organization or hierarchy. Instead, it is a movement that is heavily influenced by a number of high-profile pastors and teachers such as Kenneth Hagin, Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, Paul and Jan Crouch, and Fred Price...

...At the heart of the Word of Faith movement is the belief in the "force of faith." It is
believed words can be used to manipulate the faith-force, and thus actually create what they believe Scripture promises (health and wealth). Laws supposedly governing the faith-force are said to operate independently of God’s sovereign will and that God Himself is subject to these laws. This is nothing short of idolatry, turning our faith—and by extension ourselves—into god...
https://www.gotquestions.org/Word-Faith.html

As to spiritual gifts, you are also correct, although the two topics are not exactly related. There is a spiritual gift of faith (probably extraordinary faith) and there is also the spiritual fruit of faith (not extraordinary). The spiritual gifts are distributed as the Holy Spirit sees fit, but God expects all Christians to have all the fruits of the Spirit.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Yes that is exactly why I think that while I do admire that kind of faith they take it to another level and that is where the problem and the damage to others is done. Jesus says ask you will recieve, I knew a person who a few years back was part of the wof, he found when he was saved that he could ask and he just believed he would recieve it and most of the time he did. He said that it just felt natural to him he had faith and knew somehow he would receive it but he joined the wof because he wanted to be with believers who also walked in this gift to learn and grow from them and to have prayer together to help others

But after a bit he saw how the wof was and noticed they were shattering other peoples faith when they failed to od as they taught lacking faith is the reason for it apparently. he left it telling them that they were to strict and went to far he once saw a little girl crying because of this kind of treatment and was appalled
However he was not able to have the gift of prophecy even when he asked and that is why I explained to him how the gifts work. had he stayed in the wof I can only imagine how damaged his faith would have become.

The point of this story is that exactly like my friend we can have that kind of faith it is a real thing but not everyone is gifted in this area. it's exactly like a tree trees have many branches and we are the pranches of the tree that is christ but not every branch is the same some extend further than others some produce fruits more than antoher and some are more solid in certain parts of it than others as well.

I hope to be able to learn more about the gifts and what gifts I myself have and how I can have God use me more, but hopefully my op was helpful to anyone who needs it.

My gift has been in the realm of wisdom which is great for others but sometimes a burden for me as I often know the right answers in my mind for my own life but do not so easily listen to what I know to be true.

 

[Blain]

You have understood it correctly.

Question: "Is the Word of Faith movement biblical?"
Answer: Word of Faith teaching is decidedly unbiblical. It is not a denomination and does not have a formal organization or hierarchy. Instead, it is a movement that is heavily influenced by a number of high-profile pastors and teachers such as Kenneth Hagin, Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, Paul and Jan Crouch, and Fred Price...

...At the heart of the Word of Faith movement is the belief in the "force of faith." It is
believed words can be used to manipulate the faith-force, and thus actually create what they believe Scripture promises (health and wealth). Laws supposedly governing the faith-force are said to operate independently of God’s sovereign will and that God Himself is subject to these laws. This is nothing short of idolatry, turning our faith—and by extension ourselves—into god...
https://www.gotquestions.org/Word-Faith.html

As to spiritual gifts, you are also correct, although the two topics are not exactly related. There is a spiritual gift of faith (probably extraordinary faith) and there is also the spiritual fruit of faith (not extraordinary). The spiritual gifts are distributed as the Holy Spirit sees fit, but God expects all Christians to have all the fruits of the Spirit.

So wait the prosperity gospel is based from the wof? If I had that kind of faith I would use it to help others not for my own desires in fact if that was the cost for God to allow me to have that kind of faith I would gladly accept it.

 

[Blain]

My gift has been in the realm of wisdom which is great for others but sometimes a burden for me as I often know the right answers in my mind for my own life but do not so easily listen to what I know to be true.

Oh wisdom is most certainly your gift but I am the same way as you, I know the answers to things and show wisdom and insight even in matters I have never studied ( not that I myself can take any credit) but I often times say to myself when am I going to learn to take my own advice

 

[Blain]

It is strange though I can have understanding and insight to the gifts yet I cannot decipher my own. I mean I know I walk in the gift of prophecy that has always be evident ever since I was saved, I am able to encourage build up and imact hearts I can have wisdom and insight and know things I have never heard however I also know that there are gifts specifically for that area to help encourage and to edify others but what about ministry gifts? I don't trust those online spiritual gift tests and I suppose while I can see gifts in others it is exactly what I always say sometimes you need an outside view of others to see things in yourself.

Also roguh as far as the delima we face with wisdom I think that is exactly how it is suppose to be. We are given wisdom and insight into things for the sake of others and I think it also is to keep us humble as even the wise can think themselves to be to wise

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Oh wisdom is most certainly your gift but I am the same way as you, I know the answers to things and show wisdom and insight even in matters I have never studied ( not that I myself can take any credit) but I often times say to myself when am I going to learn to take my own advice

And it also just makes you way more evident of how much you need God because in so many ways I can relate to Solomon in Ecclesiastes. So much is meaningless without God. And I often struggle with the same logic but at the same time remembering the conclusive observations of the world around us.

Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 New International Version (NIV)
13 Now all has been heard;
here is the conclusion of the matter:
Fear God and keep his commandments,
for this is the duty of all mankind.
14 For God will bring every deed into judgment,
including every hidden thing,
whether it is good or evil.

Fear and respect for God reminds me of my Commander's orders.
Jesus gave us a mission through the great commission. I often have to remember in light of eternity my daily tasks as often many feel meaningless but I focus to remember the mission. Life can get weary or tiresome but as we focus on the mission we are constantly reminded that even the smallest task is mission oriented in some way or another.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

It is strange though I can have understanding and insight to the gifts yet I cannot decipher my own. I mean I know I walk in the gift of prophecy that has always be evident ever since I was saved, I am able to encourage build up and imact hearts I can have wisdom and insight and know things I have never heard however I also know that there are gifts specifically for that area to help encourage and to edify others but what about ministry gifts? I don't trust those online spiritual gift tests and I suppose while I can see gifts in others it is exactly what I always say sometimes you need an outside view of others to see things in yourself.

Also roguh as far as the delima we face with wisdom I think that is exactly how it is suppose to be. We are given wisdom and insight into things for the sake of others and I think it also is to keep us humble as even the wise can think themselves to be to wise

In deciphering your own you say prophecy is a gift you have. Are you expecting others? Or I guess define what are the ministry gifts?

 

[Blain]

In deciphering your own you say prophecy is a gift you have. Are you expecting others? Or I guess define what are the ministry gifts?

Well the only gifts I know I have is prophecy not prophecy as in thus saith the lord or being able to predict the future prophecy and not just dreams and visions either as I do have those visions more than anything but I have an idea of some of my spiritual gifts yet I don't trust my own judgement about them if I am not sure and as for ministry gifts yes that one in particular I want to be able to know.

Although I do wonder as well if I am able to have other spiritual gifts if I just ask for them or are they basically set in stone when God calls you? I want to be God's wonder card to be able for him to use me in every way possible but in particular since I care so much about the well being of others especially the inner wounds and struggles I wish I had the kind of faith my friend had he specialized in using his gift in prayer

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Well the only gifts I know I have is prophecy not prophecy as in thus saith the lord or being able to predict the future prophecy and not just dreams and visions either as I do have those visions more than anything but I have an idea of some of my spiritual gifts yet I don't trust my own judgement about them if I am not sure and as for ministry gifts yes that one in particular I want to be able to know.

Although I do wonder as well if I am able to have other spiritual gifts if I just ask for them or are they basically set in stone when God calls you? I want to be God's wonder card to be able for him to use me in every way possible but in particular since I care so much about the well being of others especially the inner wounds and struggles I wish I had the kind of faith my friend had he specialized in using his gift in prayer

I once did a study on this but to know what gifts you may have involves knowing what gifts are given.

Romans 12
exhortation
giving
leadership
mercy
prophecy
service
teaching

1 Corinthians 12
discernment
faith
healings
knowledge
miracles
prophecy
teaching
tongues
tongues interpretation
wisdom

Ephesians 4
evangelism
pastor
prophecy
teaching

Of course it you study this you will find some add more but for discussion here is a basic example.

Usually even if you do not feel confident in admitting a gift, usually others would outwardly confirm such gifts.

As mine was in teaching. I wasn't confident to do so but had a outward Spiritual experience from a man who knew my thoughts, told me his message, laid hands on me, and at that point I no longer could doubt such a experience.

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

Proverbs 8:7-9 says, that every Word God has ever spoken is in Truth and in Righteousness. Romans 10:9 says, "For with the heart man believes unto Righteousness;...". According to Eph. 5:9, the Fruit of the Spirit is located in in all goodness, Righteousness, and Truth.

If Righteousness of God is the criteria to see, receive, believe, and hear, Truth in its Righteous context, how does God award Righteousness, so that the Child of God may see, receive, believe, and hear, Truth in its Righteous context? How is knowledge added?

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Proverbs 8:7-9 says, that every Word God has ever spoken is in Truth and in Righteousness. Romans 10:9 says, "For with the heart man believes unto Righteousness;...". According to Eph. 5:9, the Fruit of the Spirit is located in in all goodness, Righteousness, and Truth.

If Righteousness of God is the criteria to see, receive, believe, and hear, Truth in its Righteous context, how does God award Righteousness, so that the Child of God may see, receive, believe, and hear, Truth in its Righteous context? How is knowledge added?

Righteousness is given to those in Christ. Knowledge is added through enlightenment.

 

[Subhumanoidal]

Word of faith = faith in faith, not God.

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

Righteousness is given to those in Christ. Knowledge is added through enlightenment.

All the things we receive by Grace through Faith is awarded to the Child of God by placing and maintaining their Faith exclusively in Christ and Him Crucified. Rom. 2

No other way pleases God and we grow in Grace (receive the help of the Holy Spirit).

 

[BenFTW]

Blain, what aspect of Word of Faith is your friend being drawn back to by the Lord, in her opinion? What area? Healing? Finances? If it is healing, and the Lord is leading you to study the gifts of the Spirit, maybe the Lord wants her or you to comprehend the gift of healing and maybe even administer it by the leading of the Holy Spirit?

Maybe it is something He has instilled in you or her, and as I’ve heard, the gifts are tools for the job. It is the manifestation of the Spirit given to all, and while not everyone operates in all the gifts it doesn’t mean someone can’t at different times and places. How can someone seek a spiritual gift such a prophecy if someone couldn’t operate in all the gifts? What’s the purpose of seeking them, if unattainable?

Anyways, maybe what she desires is found by the manifestation of the Holy Spirit?

 

[Roughsoul1991]

All the things we receive by Grace through Faith is awarded to the Child of God by placing and maintaining their Faith exclusively in Christ and Him Crucified. Rom. 2

Yes but are you trying to relate this to Word of faith or spiritual gifts?

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

Yes but are you trying to relate this to Word of faith or spiritual gifts?

It doesn't matter if it is "the word of faith," the grace revolution, Baptist, or any other denomination. If every jot and tittle of the Word of God is not pointing to Calvary...it's the flesh. If it is not Christ and Him Crucified, it is heresies.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

It doesn't matter if it is "the word of faith," the grace revolution, Baptist, or any other denomination. If every jot and tittle of the Word of God is not pointing to Calvary...it's the flesh. If it is not Christ and Him Crucified, it is heresies.

Are you saying a certain teaching is of the flesh? Or just making a umbrella statement?