Catholicism vs Protestantism

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Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Yep but He and His Father are one
do Jesus and the father have the same will?

If not, how does that work if they are one?

Catholic say muslim adore the one and merciful God, Mankind's judge oN the last day

According to catholic, Who is Mankind's judge oN the last day?
God, the true God. And they say that Jesus is God. But they do not say that Jesus is all of who God is.

I believe what you're actually running into is the difficulty of talking about the trinity.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Did Jesus say anything else about him and his father?


There is only one true God, and that is what Catholics are talking about. Catholics do not say that everything that Muslims say about God is true.

The Catholics like the Muslim have another written authority other than sola scriptura (all thing written in the law and prophets). The other written authority of men makes the word of God without effect. No man can serve two Teaching Masters. Sola scriptura is the reforming restoring power of God in any generation.

Why look to the things of men?
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Sola scriptura is the reforming restoring power of God in any generation.
In your view, what did people do prior to the printing press when Bibles were super expensive?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Yes, a person can worship God and at the same time not agree with everything God says.

I think that's one of the things that Jesus is saying to the Samaritan woman.
John 4:23-24 King James Version (KJV)
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Worship God must in spirit and truth

Worship God require in spirit and truth

Is the statement below the truth?

Jesus not God
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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do Jesus and the father have the same will?
35And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. 36But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. 37All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 3

Yep same Will, because Jesus do the Will of the father.
God, the true God. And they say that Jesus is God. But they do not say that Jesus is all of who God is.
You not answer my question, let me repeat it

According to catholic, who is the Mankind's judge oN the last day?
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Worship God must in spirit and truth
To be a true worshipper, one must worship God in spirit and in truth.

Jesus says that the Samaritans are worshipping something that they don't know, and the Jews are worshipping something that they do know (which would have to be the true God since he includes himself in that group).
But he doesn't say that either the Samaritans or the Jews are currently true worshippers.

So that's probably an important distinction.
A generic worshipper of God.
A true worshipper of God.

CCC 841 doesn't say that Muslims are following the command of Jesus to be true worshippers.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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35And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. 36But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. 37All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 3

Yep same Will, because Jesus do the Will of the father.
Matthew 26: 39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

So Jesus implies that his will is separate from the Father's, though he will choose to do what the father wills.


The Gospel of John both says that Jesus and the father are one, and that the father is greater.
John 14: 28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

How does that work, in your mind?

You not answer my question, let me repeat it

According to catholic, who is the Mankind's judge oN the last day?
I believe I did answer your question.
The short answer is:
God, the true God.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Say, @Jackson123 my brother,

An interesting verse about the nature of Jesus and the father being one.

John 17: 11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

Is Jesus praying that his disciples will be the same in every respect?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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I believe I did answer your question.
Why you don't believe the Mankind's judge oN the last day is Jesus?
You don't like Jesus?
You say Mankind's judge is true God, is that Jesus or not?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
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Say, @Jackson123 my brother,

An interesting verse about the nature of Jesus and the father being one.

John 17: 11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

Is Jesus praying that his disciples will be the same in every respect?
I believe Jesus pray that His disciples one in the sense of love each other and one in their teaching
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Why you don't believe the Mankind's judge oN the last day is Jesus?
You don't like Jesus?
You say Mankind's judge is true God, is that Jesus or not?
Sometimes the Bible presents God as the judge on the last day, sometimes Jesus.
This verse probably explains it well
Romans 2: 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men, according to my Good News, by Jesus Christ.

So God will judge the world through Jesus.

It's kind of like the question of who created the heavens and the Earth?
God, Jesus, God through Jesus are all possible answers, and all can be supported from the Bible.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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I believe Jesus pray that His disciples one in the sense of love each other and one in their teaching
Yes, exactly! Jesus prays that the disciples would be one just like he and the father are one.
And just like the disciples are not the same in every respect, so also Jesus and the father are not the same in every respect.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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So, @Jackson123 my brother,

We've been talking about Jews having a zeal of the true God.

Do you agree that Jews have a zeal of the true God?
Or do you believe that people who say that cannot be Christians and are attacking a foundation of Christianity?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
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Sometimes the Bible presents God as the judge on the last day, sometimes Jesus.
This verse probably explains it well
Romans 2: 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men, according to my Good News, by Jesus Christ.

So God will judge the world through Jesus.

It's kind of like the question of who created the heavens and the Earth?
God, Jesus, God through Jesus are all possible answers, and all can be supported from the Bible.

Is the statement below wrong?
Jesus not mankind judge oN the last day
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Yes, exactly! Jesus prays that the disciples would be one just like he and the father are one.
And just like the disciples are not the same in every respect, so also Jesus and the father are not the same in every respect.
My brother Dan, jesus and Lucifer are not the same, can they one in teaching or love each other?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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So, @Jackson123 my brother,

We've been talking about Jews having a zeal of the true God.

Do you agree that Jews have a zeal of the true God?
Or do you believe that people who say that cannot be Christians and are attacking a foundation of
So, @Jackson123 my brother,

We've been talking about Jews having a zeal of the true God.

Do you agree that Jews have a zeal of the true God?
Or do you believe that people who say that cannot be Christians and are attacking a foundation of Christianity?
Like I say before, there are 2 element of crime

Actus reus /guilty action and

Mens rea / guilty mind.

Some people say jews have a zeal to God but not in purpose to attack jesus

Some are attacking Jesus.

What behind the action

For Example John Eat in the restourant accidently he drooped the glass and Brooke It

This is actus reus but not mens rea

Catholic know muslim not worship Jesus
And Jesus is Mankind's judge oN the last day

And she say muslim adore jesus

This is crime, there are both actus reus, and mens rea element here
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
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So, @Jackson123 my brother,

We've been talking about Jews having a zeal of the true God.

Do you agree that Jews have a zeal of the true God?
Or do you believe that people who say that cannot be Christians and are attacking a foundation of Christianity?
Is having zeal same as worship?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
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Sometimes the Bible presents God as the judge on the last day, sometimes Jesus.
This verse probably explains it well
Romans 2: 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men, according to my Good News, by Jesus Christ.

So God will judge the world through Jesus.

It's kind of like the question of who created the heavens and the Earth?
God, Jesus, God through Jesus are all possible answers, and all can be supported from the Bible.
You don't believe Jesus Will judge oN the last day?

Matthew 25:31-46 GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)
Jesus Will Judge the World
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory and all his angels are with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 The people of every nation will be gathered in front of him. He will separate them as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right but the goats on his left.