CESSATIONISM AND HEALING

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Sudakar said:
Christians trusting in medical doctors, gifted healers, prayers of elders etc are all instances of disobedience to grow in faith in Christ's atonement for healing.

What do you mean by supernatural? None & nothing heals except God. God is supernatural. It is only the healing by faith in Christ's mediatorship in the atonement which pleases God.
Click to expand...
If one is COVERED sir...one has already pleased GOD...and sir, if one is NOT COVERED, they won´t know to come to THE MEDIATOR...

You speak to CHRISTIANS sir, who are already washed and have entered in...as if they somehow would EVER forget the ONE WHO WASHED THEM...

Please reflect on these scriptures.... Exodus 20, Matthew 22, 2 Corinthians 2
You might also want to throw in John 12


Maybe you will understand the connection
 
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I think I now understand what you are saying...however, you went about it the wrong way...further, you imply that christians should NOT go to a doctor...and they should. And you also implied that CHRISTIANS should never be sick...and they will

You would have an argument, sir...if you could confirm that there are certain supposed healers who deny CHRIST to begin with,...and somehow look to glorify themselves, and that CHRISTIANS were going to them, rather than to CHRIST...

Which is what you are saying here to a group of CHRISTIANS who KNOW who heals.

And sir, I can tell you...any TRUE CHRISTIAN purchased by CHRIST, would rather die in their illness than seek another spirit to heal them...
 
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mystic7 said:
back it up with scriptures
Click to expand...


It would seem you are confusing the oral traditions of mankind called of "sign gifts" with "spiritual gifts".( not seen) a tradition of God.

Its a evil generation (natural unconverted mankind) that seeks after a sign. Prophecy ,as in all things written in the law and the prophets is for those who do believe God they walk by the unseen faith that works in them .Not of themselves as a self edifying sign gift . .

When looking to the foundation of the tongues doctrine in regard to what some call "sign gift" . The Holy Spirit reveals they who were used to represent unbelief in faithless mankind. They have no use in sola scriptura as to the letter of the law.

The Holy Spirit informs us that he warned them over and over and they continued to mock him by making a noise without meaning and falling backwards. Mocking the judgment of God's word.

At Pentecost he turned the mocking (Stammering lips) around defending the integrity of sola scriptura as a sign against unbelief. . We continue to walk by faith, all die not receiving the living goal our new bodies. We have a living hope .

The people say, “Who does he think he is trying to teach and explain his message to? Does he think we are babies who were at their mother’s breast only a very short time ago? He speaks to us as though we were babies:“Saw lasaw saw lasawQaw laqaw qaw laqawZe’er sham ze’er sham.” So God will use this strange way of talking, and he will use other languages to speak to these people. In the past he spoke to them and said, “Here is a resting place. Let those who are tired come and rest. This is the place of peace.”But they would not listen to him. So the Lord’s words will be senseless sounds to them:“Saw lasaw saw lasaw.Qaw laqaw qaw laqaw.Ze’er sham ze’er sham.”When the people try to walk, they will fall backwards. They will be defeated, trapped, and captured. Isaiah28: 9-13

A warning not go go above above all things written in the law and prophets .It is still be witnessed today by those who do fall backward . We walk by a faith, it works in us preventing us from falling backward in judgment.
 
Sudakar said:
Where does scripture say to use the gift of healing to heal those who have faith to receive healing through Christ's atonement ?
Click to expand...

The gift is eternal salvation. Not the temporal healing.

Temporal healing is used in parables to represent Christ is working in a person. Those who attribute the eternal work to the temporal hands of men miss out on the gospel understanding. And blaspheme the name of the Lord. God demonstrates the unseen work of faith working in the affairs of men . Those who seek after signs as wonders miss the understanding given in the parable. They literally make the signified understanding without effect. And make the apostles gods in the likeness of men . Blasphemy.

The gospel is the power of God unto salvation .The temporal corrupted flesh profits for zero

And there they preached the gospel.And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked: The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed, Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked. And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men. And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker. Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people. Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out,Acts 14: 7-14
 
Totally wrong. Faith is believing on "things not seen" which refers to both the "work of Christ's atonement" and the "salvation from wrath / healing from sicknesses etc" it includes. Both are unseen to us.
Click to expand...

Upside down. Faith is believing on "scripture seen" it reveals the "unseen understanding". And as a labor of his love it works in us with us to make the work of our suffering lighter. Temporal healing is not the goal of the gospel.
 
Sudakar said:
Does God heal today? If yes, on what basis does God heal? Do christians have to depend only on doctors or people like t.b.joshua for healing?
You may post your opinion.
Click to expand...

I can only speak for me. Does God heal.. yes. He can't lie. Ever notice when you read the word that some verse just like SHINE at you? Peter and John at the gate. That man was expecting to receive something, <----that was written for a reason :) So they say "don't have any silver or gold but what I have give I unto you in Jesus name." Did you see they never once prayed to GOD or JESUS to do anything. Keep reading and they say "why look at us as if we did this by our own power. Its FAITH IN THAT NAME" <---thats your answer.

Its really that simple. Behold I give you power.. nothing shall by any means hurt you. . Who so ever believes.. if you don't doubt but believe.... say unto this MTN?

:D ALL good things come from God. So any doctor doing good.. God is not against that. And MAN has not changed. Even in Christ day.. and with the 12 (with Paul) its "what can you believe"? Seen it more then I can tell.. Praying for others.. to just stand on that verse for healing is hard. But.. they have great faith about that Doctor and the like.

The word says.. these signs shall not maybe not might.. but shall follow them that believe. Go to almost any 3rd world nation and you will see the WONDER of GOD at work. They already believe in magic and voodoo.. stuff like that. But here in America.. we KNOW the gifts are dead.. And signs and wonders ONLY happened with 12. He said.. if you doubt.. let not that man think he will get ANYTHING from god.

God will never go against your will. That woman that was sick for what 30 years.. yet she KNEW..no one told her.. she just KNEW if she just touched His CLOTHES she would be healed. Go for it.. see what GOD will do when you STAND in faith..
 
garee said:
It would seem you are confusing the oral traditions of mankind called of "sign gifts" with "spiritual gifts".( not seen) a tradition of God.

Its a evil generation (natural unconverted mankind) that seeks after a sign. Prophecy ,as in all things written in the law and the prophets is for those who do believe God they walk by the unseen faith that works in them .Not of themselves as a self edifying sign gift . .

When looking to the foundation of the tongues doctrine in regard to what some call "sign gift" . The Holy Spirit reveals they who were used to represent unbelief in faithless mankind. They have no use in sola scriptura as to the letter of the law.

The Holy Spirit informs us that he warned them over and over and they continued to mock him by making a noise without meaning and falling backwards. Mocking the judgment of God's word.

At Pentecost he turned the mocking (Stammering lips) around defending the integrity of sola scriptura as a sign against unbelief. . We continue to walk by faith, all die not receiving the living goal our new bodies. We have a living hope .

The people say, “Who does he think he is trying to teach and explain his message to? Does he think we are babies who were at their mother’s breast only a very short time ago? He speaks to us as though we were babies:“Saw lasaw saw lasawQaw laqaw qaw laqawZe’er sham ze’er sham.” So God will use this strange way of talking, and he will use other languages to speak to these people. In the past he spoke to them and said, “Here is a resting place. Let those who are tired come and rest. This is the place of peace.”But they would not listen to him. So the Lord’s words will be senseless sounds to them:“Saw lasaw saw lasaw.Qaw laqaw qaw laqaw.Ze’er sham ze’er sham.”When the people try to walk, they will fall backwards. They will be defeated, trapped, and captured. Isaiah28: 9-13

A warning not go go above above all things written in the law and prophets .It is still be witnessed today by those who do fall backward . We walk by a faith, it works in us preventing us from falling backward in judgment.
Click to expand...

This is confusing
 
miknik5 said:
Wait...are you accusing christians of somehow being confused as to these who were given gifts of healing as somehow...christ?
Click to expand...

The gift of healing is to perform sign healing for unbelievers in order to lead them to Christ. That is not what the discussion is about.

The discussion is about christians treating those with gift of healing as mediators of healing from God. Thus christians don't grow in faith!
 
miknik5 said:
Sir, by your words, you are manifesting that you have no regard, awe, or fear for what is truly written in HIS WORD
Click to expand...

Ask cs1 why he used the word buffoon and hides for fear of truth. Are you suffering from selective amnesia?
 
Blade said:
I can only speak for me. Does God heal.. yes. He can't lie. Ever notice when you read the word that some verse just like SHINE at you? Peter and John at the gate. That man was expecting to receive something, <----that was written for a reason :) So they say "don't have any silver or gold but what I have give I unto you in Jesus name." Did you see they never once prayed to GOD or JESUS to do anything. Keep reading and they say "why look at us as if we did this by our own power. Its FAITH IN THAT NAME" <---thats your answer.

Its really that simple. Behold I give you power.. nothing shall by any means hurt you. . Who so ever believes.. if you don't doubt but believe.... say unto this MTN?

:D ALL good things come from God. So any doctor doing good.. God is not against that. And MAN has not changed. Even in Christ day.. and with the 12 (with Paul) its "what can you believe"? Seen it more then I can tell.. Praying for others.. to just stand on that verse for healing is hard. But.. they have great faith about that Doctor and the like.

The word says.. these signs shall not maybe not might.. but shall follow them that believe. Go to almost any 3rd world nation and you will see the WONDER of GOD at work. They already believe in magic and voodoo.. stuff like that. But here in America.. we KNOW the gifts are dead.. And signs and wonders ONLY happened with 12. He said.. if you doubt.. let not that man think he will get ANYTHING from god.

God will never go against your will. That woman that was sick for what 30 years.. yet she KNEW..no one told her.. she just KNEW if she just touched His CLOTHES she would be healed. Go for it.. see what GOD will do when you STAND in faith..
Click to expand...

If faith in Christ's atonement can heal, why do christians seek after elders and gifted healers for healing?
 
miknik5 said:
If one is COVERED sir...one has already pleased GOD...and sir, if one is NOT COVERED, they won´t know to come to THE MEDIATOR...

You speak to CHRISTIANS sir, who are already washed and have entered in...as if they somehow would EVER forget the ONE WHO WASHED THEM...

Please reflect on these scriptures.... Exodus 20, Matthew 22, 2 Corinthians 2
You might also want to throw in John 12


Maybe you will understand the connection
Click to expand...

What are you blabbering? State your question in a clear manner.
 
miknik5 said:
I think I now understand what you are saying...however, you went about it the wrong way...further, you imply that christians should NOT go to a doctor...and they should. And you also implied that CHRISTIANS should never be sick...and they will

You would have an argument, sir...if you could confirm that there are certain supposed healers who deny CHRIST to begin with,...and somehow look to glorify themselves, and that CHRISTIANS were going to them, rather than to CHRIST...

Which is what you are saying here to a group of CHRISTIANS who KNOW who heals.

And sir, I can tell you...any TRUE CHRISTIAN purchased by CHRIST, would rather die in their illness than seek another spirit to heal them...
Click to expand...

So you don't want healing by faith in Christ's atonement?
 
garee said:
The gift is eternal salvation. Not the temporal healing.

Temporal healing is used in parables to represent Christ is working in a person. Those who attribute the eternal work to the temporal hands of men miss out on the gospel understanding. And blaspheme the name of the Lord. God demonstrates the unseen work of faith working in the affairs of men . Those who seek after signs as wonders miss the understanding given in the parable. They literally make the signified understanding without effect. And make the apostles gods in the likeness of men . Blasphemy.

The gospel is the power of God unto salvation .The temporal corrupted flesh profits for zero

And there they preached the gospel.And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked: The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed, Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked. And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men. And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker. Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people. Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out,Acts 14: 7-14
Click to expand...

So you don't want healing through faith in Christ's atonement?
 
garee said:
Upside down. Faith is believing on "scripture seen" it reveals the "unseen understanding". And as a labor of his love it works in us with us to make the work of our suffering lighter. Temporal healing is not the goal of the gospel.
Click to expand...

You may not want temporal healing but healing is included in Christ's atonement according to Isaiah 53:4. Don't preach lies!
 
chanchuinchoy said:
You said iam wrog and say iam right. not understand your english, sorry.
Click to expand...

Faith is believing on "things not seen" which refers to both the "work of Christ's atonement" and the "salvation from wrath / healing from sicknesses etc" it includes. Both are unseen to us.
 
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