The Reason You are Told that God No Longer Speaks.

[Blain]

I think the whole world is crazy.

I may be the only sane one left.

And I hear voices, see visions and dream dreams...

Well if you talk to yourself that is actually healthy to do but if you respond to yourself I might have a little bit of concern for your well being so no worries I have 911 on speed dial

 

[notuptome]

You seem to have forgotten that we were disputing was whether or not the second part of the promise (which was prophecy, dreams, etc) was only for the Jews. You said it was only for the Jews. I showed you an example in the bible that proves it was given to gentiles, which is a proof that prophecy STARTED in non-Jews, by God.

Before we move on, you should probably acknowledge that the (Joel 2:28 and Acts 2:17) promise made prophecy (the ability to prophesy) available to the Ephesians in Acts 19:1-6 right along with the Holy Ghost. (because that's kind of undeniable.) THEN we can move on to discussing when or if that ability was taken away.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

You cannot say that the disciples were not Jewish just because they were Ephesians. There were many Jews scattered throughout Asia.

You are endeavoring to build doctrine on supposition and not facts. In any case prophesy today is over. 1 Cor 13:8 Preaching the word is now how God operates. 1 Cor 1:21.

If we devote half as much energy doing what we ought to be doing instead of attempting to develop doctrines that only result in self edification we would see many more souls coming to Christ. If we did that we would be influencing society instead of society reshaping what is seen as church.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Dino246]

You cannot say that the disciples were not Jewish just because they were Ephesians. There were many Jews scattered throughout Asia.

You are endeavoring to build doctrine on supposition and not facts. In any case prophesy today is over. 1 Cor 13:8 Preaching the word is now how God operates. 1 Cor 1:21.

If we devote half as much energy doing what we ought to be doing instead of attempting to develop doctrines that only result in self edification we would see many more souls coming to Christ. If we did that we would be influencing society instead of society reshaping what is seen as church.

Misinterpreting "edifies himself" I see.

You have no excuse, for you are here arguing instead of "influencing society".

I suggest you do a little more work in Acts and find out exactly who made up the Ephesian church.

 

[Angela53510]

Thank you for your posting. It is good to hear that you hear God. Your experience is similar to my own in that God spoke "straight out of the scriptures" (directly quoting known scripture) at first. I think he did that in my case perhaps for 2 reasons:

1. So I would recognize his voice as being the word of God. A SIDE NOTE for everyone's consideration: Anything spoken by God is the word of God (like everything he says in heaven to the angels) whether it is written in the bible or not.
2. When he spoke, he emphasized a particular word within the verse whereas I always read that particular verse in monotone. That let me know that this word wasn't coming from my memory as I would have remembered it in monotone (like I'd always done before).

Later he would share things that were not directly quotable from the Bible, explaining what is meant by particular scriptures or showing things to come, which is something Jesus PROMISED the Holy Ghost would do (John 16:13).

Having said that, I am significantly curious about one thing. Seeing you support the truth of God speaking, may I ask which portion of Post #1 you disagreed with?

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

I really disagreed with this:

"God cannot lie. And he will only speak truth...even about your leaders. If they are blind leaders, God would tell that truth to you if you ever gain the ability to hear from God directly...and THAT is the reason you are told that God no longer speaks."

Through the whole post you were putting down leaders, and calling them blind. And not just in this statement. I've had some excellent leaders in the last 15 years. Both seminary professors and my pastors. You may have had bad experiences, but when I left certain denominations, I had no more issues.

As a teacher myself, I think you do have to trust the people who are teaching you. Yes, you need to learn from God. But, God gave us pastors and leaders.

"11 So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12 to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ." Eph. 4:11-13

I don't like the way you dismiss pastors as "blind leaders." While there are some, there are a lot more who are not blind. I also think it is important we are in a body of believers. God's plan is not to have us be individuals, who are not connected to anyone else. Just our Bibles and God. That simply was never the plan God had. The church IS God's plan. And a leader who is a spiritual leader, not just an administrators.

So, if you really think most pastors are blind leaders, I think you need an attitude adjustment and maybe a change of churches. When the preacher IS wrong, we do need to go and talk to them. If they continue to ignore what we have said, and others feel the same way, then it is time for the pastor to move on. I have been in a few churches where the pastor got off track. One pastor was really bad. But all the members left, leaving a great fellowship split up. That pastor should have gone. But if you can find no support from knowledgable Christian members, time to look at yourself, or leave the church.

 

[KelbyofGod]

You seem to have forgotten that we were disputing was whether or not the second part of the promise (which was prophecy, dreams, etc) was only for the Jews. You said it was only for the Jews. I showed you an example in the bible that proves it was given to gentiles, which is a proof that prophecy STARTED in non-Jews, by God.

Before we move on, you should probably acknowledge that the (Joel 2:28 and Acts 2:17) promise made prophecy (the ability to prophesy) available to the Ephesians in Acts 19:1-6 right along with the Holy Ghost. (because that's kind of undeniable.) THEN we can move on to discussing when or if that ability was taken away.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

Sorry. That sounds a little more snippy than informative.

And by "STARTED in the Gentiles" I mean "began to be manifest in the Gentiles".

Just clarifying.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[KelbyofGod]

I really disagreed with this:

"God cannot lie. And he will only speak truth...even about your leaders. If they are blind leaders, God would tell that truth to you if you ever gain the ability to hear from God directly...and THAT is the reason you are told that God no longer speaks."

Through the whole post you were putting down leaders, and calling them blind. And not just in this statement. I've had some excellent leaders in the last 15 years. Both seminary professors and my pastors. You may have had bad experiences, but when I left certain denominations, I had no more issues.

As a teacher myself, I think you do have to trust the people who are teaching you. Yes, you need to learn from God. But, God gave us pastors and leaders.

"11 So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12 to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ." Eph. 4:11-13

I don't like the way you dismiss pastors as "blind leaders." While there are some, there are a lot more who are not blind. I also think it is important we are in a body of believers. God's plan is not to have us be individuals, who are not connected to anyone else. Just our Bibles and God. That simply was never the plan God had. The church IS God's plan. And a leader who is a spiritual leader, not just an administrators.

So, if you really think most pastors are blind leaders, I think you need an attitude adjustment and maybe a change of churches. When the preacher IS wrong, we do need to go and talk to them. If they continue to ignore what we have said, and others feel the same way, then it is time for the pastor to move on. I have been in a few churches where the pastor got off track. One pastor was really bad. But all the members left, leaving a great fellowship split up. That pastor should have gone. But if you can find no support from knowledgable Christian members, time to look at yourself, or leave the church.

Thanks Angela, That was a well-spoken, thorough and reasonable reply.

For clarification:

My intent is not to push people away from churches and into isolation. Nor am I against the office of a Minister (pastor, priest, etc) as a spiritual position in the churches, guiding the flock with the word of God as you described and I agree with. I go to church too and am happy to have a minister who shares the word.

What I was trying to point out is the danger of trusting a pastor (even OUR own pastor)if we have never TRULY verified that God actually sent them. It is hard-er the longer we wait. And it is hard-est to honestly do with the leaders we rely on most. Because so much would be on the line if they were wrong.

HOWEVER, there is no risk when asking God about our pastors if they are indeed "seeing" pastors. God would simply acknowledge that he indeed sent them and that they are guiding people truthfully (although i won't try to predict how he would tell you).

And I also caution against "confirmation bias" where we want something so badly that we self-create that answer. (Picture a teenager praying about buying a Ferrari)



And this may sound scary but is it really unrealistic to think that most of the leaders in any generation could be missing the mark...if we consider how many of the Jewish leaders(priests and scholars) were UNABLE to discern their own messiah because they relied on their own assmptions and understanding of scripture, and refused to go directly to God until he answered? Because I don't think it was God that told them Jesus was a false teacher.

Plus, if you can hear God well enough for him to show you a scary truth about someone you respect, you probably will hear him well enough for him to show you what (if anything) to do about it.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[Dave-L]

You should know by now how I fell about misusing the scriptures I often say how sacred it is and is not a toy you wanted evidence I continue to give it yet you give no evidence at all for your stance except to continue to say how it has ended.
It's as I said even if I gave you evidence of it you would not listen and then I do as you ask and you accuse me of misusing scripture not even in saying how I represent it but the fact I am saying the gifts have not ended. I have done all you asked and yet you still have not done what I asked, can you disprove the gifts are not gone using the scriptures you claim furnish us?
Where in the bible does it say that the gifts ended with the apostles?

If the gifts are for today, raise some dead people like they did in Acts.

 

[Grandpa]

If the gifts are for today, raise some dead people like they did in Acts.

Probably only a person with the gift of miracles would be able to do that.

And why would they waste it just trying to prove that it exists when they know it exists?

I wouldn't. If I had the gift of miracles.

 

[Dave-L]

Probably only a person with the gift of miracles would be able to do that.

And why would they waste it just trying to prove that it exists when they know it exists?

I wouldn't. If I had the gift of miracles.

You would see it regardless of the motive for using it if it existed. With all the phone videos today?

 

[Grandpa]

You would see it regardless of the motive for using it if it existed. With all the phone videos today?

You think that God does not perform miracles anymore or just not through people He gives the gift to?

 

[Dave-L]

You think that God does not perform miracles anymore or just not through people He gives the gift to?

If he does, where are they?

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

The gifts ended when scripture took their place. Go heal some COVID19 victims. Prove you are right.

This is so thoughtless I don’t even know where to start…

We purchased a Chow a few years ago. We also had two Bullmastiffs and I told my wife from day one it is a risk to buy the Chow but she said we will manage them. We did, for a while… then one day we took in two kids of the street. They were non-believers and we showed them the puppy. It wasn’t too long before our Bullmastiffs also joined the party and before I could separate the dogs our female bit the Chow in the neck and the little puppy bled out in my arms (I saw him die). The dog got stiff in my arms and as I put him down on the ground to go and wash my arms (which were full of blood) my wife started to pray for this puppy before the two boys and ask Abba to bring him back to life and witness in their lives. As I turned the corner the puppy gave a cry and sat up on the lawn. I turned around and everyone was astounded because the puppy was alive, there was no wound left in his neck just a little bump under his skin where he bled from.

Moving on more than 5 years we bought a Yorkie and she became ill and died. We prayed over her as well but God did not heal the little one, does this mean that the Chow never was resurrected?

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

If he does, where are they?

You are limiting God..............

 

[Dave-L]

You are limiting God..............

If you have the gifts, prove it.

 

[Dave-L]

This is so thoughtless I don’t even know where to start…

We purchased a Chow a few years ago. We also had two Bullmastiffs and I told my wife from day one it is a risk to buy the Chow but she said we will manage them. We did, for a while… then one day we took in two kids of the street. They were non-believers and we showed them the puppy. It wasn’t too long before our Bullmastiffs also joined the party and before I could separate the dogs our female bit the Chow in the neck and the little puppy bled out in my arms (I saw him die). The dog got stiff in my arms and as I put him down on the ground to go and wash my arms (which were full of blood) my wife started to pray for this puppy before the two boys and ask Abba to bring him back to life and witness in their lives. As I turned the corner the puppy gave a cry and sat up on the lawn. I turned around and everyone was astounded because the puppy was alive, there was no wound left in his neck just a little bump under his skin where he bled from.

Moving on more than 5 years we bought a Yorkie and she became ill and died. We prayed over her as well but God did not heal the little one, does this mean that the Chow never was resurrected?

Where is something you can prove with documentation?

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

If you have the gifts, prove it.

I have been a witness to many miracles in our home… God is still performing miracles through His children.

Mat 16:4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Where is something you can prove with documentation?

What documentation do you want?! It is my word as a Christian. I don't need to prove anything to you...

 

[Dave-L]

I have been a witness to many miracles in our home… God is still performing miracles through His children.

Mat 16:4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.

Really. Where are the miracles of Acts in the daily news?

 

[Dave-L]

What documentation do you want?! It is my word as a Christian. I don't need to prove anything to you...

I saw a crazy teacher wipe out over 100 people including himself that all swore the gifts were for today.

 

[Dino246]

If you have the gifts, prove it.

Nobody is obligated to satisfy your cynicism with evidence. Jesus didn't do that for the Pharisees either. You claim that the gifts no longer operate; it's your responsibility to prove it. Nobody needs to provide evidence to refute your claim.