Who was the Angel of the Lord in the Old Testament?

[Nehemiah6]

As we study the Old Testament, we find that there is one very special angel who appears to men, generally in connection with a crisis or a critical revelation.

He is called “the Angel of the LORD” or literally “the Angel of YHWH (Yahweh). This Angel is mentioned 49 times in the Old Testament, and is also called “the Angel of His presence” (once in Isaiah 63:9) and “mine Angel” (twice, in Exodus 23:23 and 32:34). He is also called “the Angel of the Covenant”, translated as “the Messenger of the Covenant” in Malachi 3:1. That is a reference to Christ as the Messenger of the New Covenant.

It has been recognized by all who have examined the appearance of this Angel as well as His words, that He is none other than the pre-incarnate Christ – a Theophany or a Christophany before Christ came to earth as Jesus of Nazareth (God manifest in the flesh). Since no man has seen God the Father at any time, and the Holy Spirit is invisible, it is the Son of God (or God the Son) who appeared to men in angelic form.

HAGAR
Surprisingly enough, the Angel of the LORD first appeared to Sarah’s servant Hagar (Gen 16:7-16), when she fled from Sarah, who was dealing harshly with her because she conceived Ishmael while Sarah remained barren. And even more surprising is the fact that Hagar recognized that God had visited her: And she called the name of the LORD that spake unto her, Thou God seest me: for she said, Have I also here looked after Him that seeth me? (Gen 16:13)

ABRAHAM
While Christ had appeared to Abraham as the Word of God earlier, He appeared to Abraham as the Angel of the LORD at the time Isaac was about to be sacrificed (Gen 22:11-19). Firstly, the Angel stopped Abraham from sacrificing Isaac. Abraham immediately recognized Him as Jehovah and called the place Jehovah Jireh (the LORD will provide) when he saw a ram provided for the sacrifice: And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen [provided]. (Gen 22:14) But then the Angel spoke plainly as God (the LORD or Yahweh), and blessed Abraham ,while adding to the Abrahamic Covenant, and actually adding Christ as the “Seed” of Abraham at this time.

MOSES
The Angel of the LORD appeared to Moses at the burning bush. It is here that He plainly disclosed that He was the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and that His name was “I AM THAT I AM” or “I AM”. Jesus identified Himself as God by telling the Jews that “Before Abraham was I AM”. This passage in Exodus 3:1-23 is extremely significant in many ways, and should be carefully studied.

BALAAM
Balam was a hireling prophet who was prepared to serve the enemies of Israel, and even curse Israel on behalf of Balak, king of Moab (while the Israelites were traveling to Canaan). Even though God eventually gave Balaam permission to go to Balak, He was very angry with Balaam, and appeared as the Angel of the LORD to kill him (Numbers 22:21-35). Balaam’s donkey managed to protect him, and then the Angel of the LORD gave Balaam permission with specific conditions attached. In the end Balaam blessed Israel instead of cursing them. In this passage, the Angel of the LORD is mentioned ten times.

JUDGES
In the book of Judges, the Angel of the LORD is mentioned twelve times. He also appeared to Joshua before the battle of Jericho (in the book of Joshua), but was not identified as such. He identified Himself as the Captain of the LORD’s hosts (Joshua 5:13-15)

1. He appeared to the disobedient Israelites just before the death of Joshua (Judges 2:1-9). He warned them that there would be dire consequences for disobedience, and we see this throughout the book of Judges.

2. The Angel of the LORD is mentioned in Judges 5:23 (the Song of Deborah) as the one who said: Curse ye Meroz, said the angel of the LORD, curse ye bitterly the inhabitants thereof; because they came not to the help of the LORD, to the help of the LORD against the mighty. Meroz is a town in northern Palestine, and because its inhabitants did not help the Israelites who were being opposed by the Canaanites, they were cursed bitterly.

3. The Angel of the LORD appeared to Gideon (Judges 6:11-24), and is identified as “the LORD” who commissioned Gideon to be the deliverer or savior of Israel from the Midianites: And the LORD looked upon him, and said, Go in this thy might, and thou shalt save Israel from the hand of the Midianites: have not I sent thee? (v 14)

4. Then the Angel of the LORD appeared to the father and mother of Samson (Judges 13:2-24) and told him that his wife would bear a son who must become a Nazarite (not touch strong drink, not eat unclean food, and not cut his hair). Samson would deliver Israel from the Philistines, but he would also do many foolish things. “The Angel of the LORD” is mentioned eight times in this passage.

DAVID AND ISRAEL
David was provoked by Satan to number the children of Israel (the Israelites), although it appears that this was also a test from God, who was angry at Israel. David foolishly had the tribes numbered, and paid a high price for this sin (2 Samuel 24:1-25; 1 Chronicles 21:1-30). Seventy thousand people died through a pestilence, but God spared Jerusalem and allowed David to build an altar and make burnt offerings and peace offerings to stop further judgment. The Angel of the LORD appeared at the threshing place of Araunah (Ornan) the Jebusite.

ELIJAH
1. After Elijah destroyed the altar of the pagan god Baal, and had all its priests executed, his life was threatened by wicked queen Jezebel. As a result he fled into the wilderness, and wished to die. However, the Angel of the LORD visited him and gave him food and water and encouraged him to press on (1 Kings 19:1-18). But after Elijah came to mount Horeb, He is also identified as the Word of the LORD, who gave further instructions to Elijah.

2. Later, Elijah was sent to Ahaziah, king of Israel (2 Kings 1:1-18), who wanted to get a message from the pagan god Baalzebub of Ekron (actually Satan) as to whether he would recover from his disease. Elijah intercepted those messengers and sent them back to Ahaziah. Then the king sent fifty messengers to Elijah three times, but they were destroyed by fire from Heaven the first two times, and the last group was spared. Then Elijah went to the king and prophesied: Thus saith the LORD, Forasmuch as thou hast sent messengers to enquire of Baalzebub the god of Ekron, is it not because there is no God in Israel to enquire of his word? therefore thou shalt not come down off that bed on which thou art gone up, but shalt surely die.(v 16)

THE DESTRUCTION OF SENNACHERIB’S ARMY
During the reign of Hezekiah, king of Judah, Sennacherib, king of Assyria mocked God and Hezekiah (2 Kings 19:1-37; Isaiah 37:1-38). Therefore, in answer to Hezekiah’s prayer (as conveyed by Isaiah), God sent the Angel of the LORD to destroy 185,000 Assyrians soldiers in one night, so that the Assyrians could not enter Jerusalem. This caused Sennacherib to return to Assyria, where he was murdered by his sons while worshiping another pagan god, Nisroch.

PSALMS
David mentions the Angel of the LORD in Psalms 34:7 and 35;5,6 as both a protecting Angel and an avenging Angel.

ZECHERIAH
The Angel of the LORD is mentioned in connection with these four prophecies:
1. Four horses among the myrtle trees (Zech 1:11-17)
2. Four horns and four carpenters (Zech 1:18-21)
3. Joshua the High Priest (Zech 3:1-10)
4. The house of David (Zech 12:1-14)

You will not find this Angel of the LORD mentioned in the New Testament, since He is presented as Jesus of Nazareth and the Lord Jesus Christ. He is shown to be far superior to all the angels (who were created by Him), and He certainly cannot be confused with Michael (the archangel), since Michael called Him "LORD", and said to Satan "the LORD rebuke thee" (Jude 1:9).

 

[blueluna5]

It's generally believed the "angel of the Lord" is Jesus.

In reality it would be impossible to know for sure each incident.. Even if you were actually there!

God speaks through angels as well and angels are similar to Jesus in many ways. God even refers to them as "sons of God."

Mankind sees each person as individuals. In God's family we are all one, such is love. It's very strange for us to understand that though.

 

[posthuman]

In reality it would be impossible to know for sure each incident.. Even if you were actually there!

People treated Him exactly like God - they fell at His feet and worshipped and were not rebuked. They said 'we have seen God' and the texts recording what The Angel said say The LORD said and refer to Him as the LORD.

Amen @Nehemiah6 people need to know this, if they haven't yet been taught.

In the NT God is described triune: Father, Son and Spirit, and in the OT God is described equally triune: the LORD, The Angel of the LORD, the Spirit of the LORD - the trinity is not something 'introduced' by Christians, it is in the Book from the beginning.

 

[RevelationMan]

As we study the Old Testament, we find that there is one very special angel who appears to men, generally in connection with a crisis or a critical revelation.

He is called “the Angel of the LORD” or literally “the Angel of YHWH (Yahweh). This Angel is mentioned 49 times in the Old Testament, and is also called “the Angel of His presence” (once in Isaiah 63:9) and “mine Angel” (twice, in Exodus 23:23 and 32:34). He is also called “the Angel of the Covenant”, translated as “the Messenger of the Covenant” in Malachi 3:1. That is a reference to Christ as the Messenger of the New Covenant.

i believe the "Angel of the Lord" is Jesus Christ and the "Angel of God" is the "Bright Morning Star" or Jesus.

in Rev 22 it refers to the Angel of the Lord
6 The angel said to me, “These words are trustworthy and true. The Lord, the God of the prophets, sent his angel to show his servants the things that must soon take place.”

 

[acts5_29]

The original Hebrew is "malakh Adonai." I don't really see either a definite or indefinite article associated with it. In fact, "the" messenger of the Lord would be different: that would be "Hamalakh Adonai". But it is not: just malakh Adonai.

I wouldn't read too much into it being "the" angel of the Lord, vs. "an" angel of the Lord. That distinction is not really there in the Hebrew. However, we are dealing in a time when monotheism vs. polytheism was an issue, so THE Lord does matter. The emphasis on "the" needs to be on THE Lord--not whether it's THE same angel or not.

 

[Nehemiah6]

In reality it would be impossible to know for sure each incident.. Even if you were actually there!

I don't understand why you would say this. All you have to do is read those passages I have quoted carefully. Men treated the Angel of the LORD as God in each of those instances. In some cases they were asked to remove their shoes from holy ground. And in Exodus 3 He plainly identified Himself as the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, whose name is I AM THAT I AM or just I AM.

So in fact we know for sure who this person was. The Son of God. No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [revealed] him. (John 1:18)

 

[bluto]

The original Hebrew is "malakh Adonai." I don't really see either a definite or indefinite article associated with it. In fact, "the" messenger of the Lord would be different: that would be "Hamalakh Adonai". But it is not: just malakh Adonai.

I wouldn't read too much into it being "the" angel of the Lord, vs. "an" angel of the Lord. That distinction is not really there in the Hebrew. However, we are dealing in a time when monotheism vs. polytheism was an issue, so THE Lord does matter. The emphasis on "the" needs to be on THE Lord--not whether it's THE same angel or not.

I'll tell what I will do acts5? You supply me with as many verses you want that mention angels and I will tell you whether it's "THE" angel of the Lord or if it's "AN/A angel of the Lord. Plus the fact that the "CONTEXT" determines whether it's "THE" angel of the Lord or "AN/A angel of the Lord.

What a lot of people don't know is there a difference between the little words, "the" and "an/a." The chief grammatical function of "an" (or a) is to connote a thing not previously noted or recognized, while "the" connotes a thing previously noted or recognized.

You can see the word "an" or "a" as examples at Matthew 1:20, 24, Matthew 2:13, Acts 5:19 and so on. Btw, "The" angel of the Lord never appears in the New Testament as the angel of the Lord. At Acts 7 Stephen identifies Him when he reads the "riot" act to the Jews.

Now, as far as I'm concerned the best proof of the preexistence of the Son as the angel of the Lord and before His actual incarnation as a man is found at Genesis 22. Starting at vs10, "And Abraham stretched out his hand, and took the knife to slay his son. Vs11, But the angel of the Lord called to him from heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham!" And he said, Here I am.

Vs12, "And he said, Do not stretch out your hand against the lad, and do nothing to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son from Me." Vs13 and 14 say that God will provide a sacrifice for Abraham.

Vs15, "The the angel of the Lord called out to Abraham a second time from heaven. vs16, and said, "By Myself I have sworn, declares the Lord, because you have done this thing, and have not withheld your son, your only son. V17, indeed I will greatly multiply your seed as the stars of the heavens and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your seed shall possess the gate of their enemies."

Vs18, "And in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because (or why?) YOU HAVE OBEYED MY VOICE." Now, there are some questions that are rasied and need addressing. One, why does the angel of the Lord call out of the heavens two times when God Himself has called out of heaven? Exodus 20:22 for example.

Why does the text mention that Isaac is Abrahams only son when Abraham other sons older than Isaac? It says at vs13, "for now I know that you fear God." God oftentimes speaks in the third person as well as in the first person. For example Job 1:8 and Job 2:3 plus alot of other places.

It should also be noted that the Hebrew word for "angel" is "malak." It means "messenger." It can also refer to an actual angel or even to human beings, it all depends on the word is used in context. Malachi 3:1, "Behold, I am going to send My "malak/angel/messenger" and he will clear the way before Me, And the Lord whom you seek, will suddenly come to His temple; and the "malak/angel/messenger" of the covenant, in whom you delight, behold, He is coming says the Lord of host."

The person that is clearing the way of the Lord is John the Baptist, a human being/messenger. Read Mark 1:1-4. And btw, the prophet Malachi is a human being and his name is from the root word, "malak/messenger." Who do you think in this verse is the "malak/angel/messenger" of the covenant? And who's the person that's coming to His temple?

Now, here is why I'm convinced that Jesus Christ is not an acutal angel as the Jehovah Witnesses belive, plus that believe that Jesus is really Michael the arc angel. It's impossible for Jesus to be Michael. Angels cannot swear oaths on behalf of God. Just as the text says at Genesis 22:16, "By Myself I have sworn declares the Lord."

There's more proof that backs this statement up. It's found at Hebrews 6:13-14, "For when GOD made the promise to Abraham, since He could swear by on one greater, HE SWORE BY HIMSELF, vs14, saying, I will surely bless you, and I will surely multiply you." This is also mentioned by Luke at Luke 1:73. In law, no one can swear an oath on behalf of someone else. I think this pretty much covers it and if you have any questions I will be happy to address them.

IN THE ANGEL OF THE LORD,
bluto

 

[acts5_29]

I'll tell what I will do acts5? You supply me with as many verses you want that mention angels and I will tell you whether it's "THE" angel of the Lord

Why would I do that? You are not the Bible. I read the Bible directly, without a go-between, and I encourage everyone else to do the same. Do you not?

What a lot of people don't know is there a difference between the little words, "the" and "an/a." The chief grammatical function of "an" (or a) is to connote a thing not previously noted or recognized, while "the" connotes a thing previously noted or recognized.

Which would be true--in English. The Old Testament was not written in English. You are adding a connotation which does not exist in the original Hebrew.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Which would be true--in English. The Old Testament was not written in English. You are adding a connotation which does not exist in the original Hebrew.

And it appears that you are simply trying to oppose the truth. Furthermore, you are trying to present yourself as an accomplished Hebrew scholar (which is far from the truth). "The" Angel of the LORD is the correct translation when taken in context, and your opposition has absolutely no merit. The Angel of the LORD was God Himself -- the Son of God, who is the Lord Jesus Christ. And all the passages about Him make this very clear.

 

[acts5_29]

And it appears that you are simply trying to oppose the truth. Furthermore, you are trying to present yourself as an accomplished Hebrew scholar (which is far from the truth). .

Clearly you are doing the very thing you accuse me of. You know nothing of my background in Hebrew. Did it even cross your mind that maybe I never even tried to be a so-called "scholar" in Hebrew, and simply wanted to know Hebrew the same way others know Spanish--because Hebrew is, like, the language they speak in Israel?? You need to know some Hebrew to get around in Israel. And others learn Spanish to get along in Mexico. Oh, the nerve of some people.

There is no definite article in the Hebrew there. There is no "Ha". While "the angel of the Lord" is a reasonable translation to English, even so, you are reading something into the Bible that is simply not there.

But if you're not interested in the facts, then forget I said anything. I said it for the benefit of others on the board who may read this thread.

 

[bluto]

Why would I do that? You are not the Bible. I read the Bible directly, without a go-between, and I encourage everyone else to do the same. Do you not?




Which would be true--in English. The Old Testament was not written in English. You are adding a connotation which does not exist in the original Hebrew.

You said, "Why would I do that?" Because you said this? "I wouldn't read too much into it being "the" angel of the Lord, vs. "an" angel of the Lord." The point I am making is the fact that it is a "BIG" deal between "THE" angel of the Lord and "AN/A" angel of the Lord especially in how the words are used in context.

Now, I understand that the English article "the or an/a" are not there but it makes no difference. I can still tell you the difference of whether the context is speaking of "The" or if it's referring to "An/a" angel. The reason this is important is because "The" angel of the Lord is not only the preeincarnate Jesus Christ but he does things that "an/a" regular angel can't do.

And btw, at John 1:1 the English article "the" is not there where it says, "in the beginning." It only reads "in beginning" just like at Genesis 1:1 says, "in beginning" which does not change the context.

IN THE ANGEL OF THE LORD,
bluto

 

[acts5_29]

And btw, at John 1:1 the English article "the" is not there where it says, "in the beginning." It only reads "in beginning" just like at Genesis 1:1 says, "in beginning" which does not change the context.

IN THE ANGEL OF THE LORD,
bluto

Of course it doesn't--because there is no material difference between "in beginning" and "in the beginning". But if somebody came along and said it says, "In *A* beginning" and that there is a big difference between "in the beginning" and "in *A* beginning", now we are starting to borderline heresy. Which is exactly what you are doing with this angel.

It's like if Donald Trump sent Stephanie Grisham out to talk to me. Am I then speaking with Stephanie Grisham--or am I speaking with Donald Trump? Both statements are true. As Trump's press secretary, Stephanie is Trump's appointed mouthpiece. She is "the press secretary of Donald Trump". Of course, so is Kellyanne Conway. And so is Sean Spicer. And so is Sarah Sanders....".

 

[bluto]

Of course it doesn't--because there is no material difference between "in beginning" and "in the beginning". But if somebody came along and said it says, "In *A* beginning" and that there is a big difference between "in the beginning" and "in *A* beginning", now we are starting to borderline heresy. Which is exactly what you are doing with this angel.

It's like if Donald Trump sent Stephanie Grisham out to talk to me. Am I then speaking with Stephanie Grisham--or am I speaking with Donald Trump? Both statements are true. As Trump's press secretary, Stephanie is Trump's appointed mouthpiece. She is "the press secretary of Donald Trump". Of course, so is Kellyanne Conway. And so is Sean Spicer. And so is Sarah Sanders....".

Now I know you don't know what your talking about especially when you said "I'm bordering heresy with this angel." First of all Jesus Christ as the angel/messenger of the Lord is not an actual angel. Secondly, God does use actual angels to speak for Him just like your example above where Stephanie, Kellyanne or anyone else can speak on behalf of the President.

The Jews have a principle known as a "Shaliach" or the principle of Jewish agency. The agent acts like the "principal" himself who sent the Shaliach. Yes, Kellyanne, Stephanie or anyone else the President appoints to speak for him is fine. But there are limits to what an angent can do and this is what your missing on this whole issue.

Like I said, angels and even men can speak on behalf of God. Even "THE" angel of the Lord speaks on behalf of God. But an acutal angel like Michael or Gabriel CANNOT swear an oath on behlaf of God. "THE" angel of the Lord swore the oath to Abraham at Genesis 22 because He is the preincarnate Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ is the "only" physical manifestion of His Father. The Father has no separate manifestation from the Son. The Son is the onbly manifestation and revelation of the Father. What is know of the Father is revealed through the Son. To see the Son is to see the essence of the Father. (John 1:1,18; a0:30; 12:45; Colossians 1:15; Hebrews 1:3)

Who do you think appeared in the burning bush at Exodus 3 and identified himself as God? Just read Exodus 3:1-6. You want more references of the angel of the Lord appearing to people and these same people claim they have seen God and lived? Read Genesis 16:7 to the end of the chapter and see what Hagar stated at vs13.

Or tell me from Genesis 17:1-2, "Now when Abram was ninety-nine years old, THE LORD APPEARED TO ABRAM and said, "I am God Almighty; Walk before Me, and be blameless, vs2, And I will establish My covenant between Me and you, And I will multiply you exceedingly." Who is the acts5? This was a "physical" appearance by God Almighty Himself. Ask me how I know?

Before you accuse anyone of "heresy" or even bordering on "heresy" you better have your facts straight by doing your homework. Of all the subject in the Bible I know about this one "frontwards and backwards." This and the Trinity doctrine. I've been in apologetics and a Christian for 58 years now and no, I don't think I know it all, light years far from it, but I do know this subject and have had numerous debates on it.

IN THE ANGEL OF THE LORD,
bluto

 

[posthuman]

Which would be true--in English. The Old Testament was not written in English. You are adding a connotation which does not exist in the original Hebrew.

where does the OT say the phrase "an angel of the LORD" ?

and where does an angel accept worship, not rebuking the person for worshiping a mere servant instead of God?

 

[posthuman]

​

The Angel of the LORD encamps all around those who fear Him, and delivers them! ​

(Psalm 34:7)​

​

Who is among us? ​

 

[garee]

Because some have made angels into anything other than one sent with a message from the lord there is much confusion.

The Son of man, Jesus a prophet and High apostle who spoke the words of the father that dwelt in his earthen body of death .The word angel is messenger with no other meaning added. How beautiful are the feet. .

We are warned that when fellowshipping with believer that are unknown to us .We should be careful they are sent of God. They could have something we need or us something they need.

Spiritual gifts not seen are always "two fold" 9 (not self edifying pride ) .They affect the one who speaks as well as the ones given ears to hear what the Spirit is saying

Hebrews 13:2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels.

Can't entertain the things not seen other than one imagination.

Which other messenger other Christ did he call Son?

Who is like God seeing he is not a man? The word Michael meaning "who is like God"? Begs a answer? Satan said he would ascend to the clouds to represent our unseen God . . . like God.

Jude 1:9King James Version Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

A couple of good examples of the father not seen working in the Son of man seen "the messenger" receiving words from the father. Showing the Lord rebuked Satan then he left the demonstration.

Jesus did not say thou shall not temp me. He would never stand in the holy unseen place of the unseen father and destroy the law of faith..

Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. Mathew 4:7

Or in chapter 16 .

The lord gave his prophet Jesus words to rebuke the devil protecting the faith of His Son that he had in his earthen body of death .

No power is attributed to the corrupted flesh of Christ .Which he says profits for zero

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.













.

 

[Nehemiah6]

People treated Him exactly like God - they fell at His feet and worshipped and were not rebuked. They said 'we have seen God' and the texts recording what The Angel said say The LORD said and refer to Him as the LORD.

Exactly. Now in the incident of Jacob wrestling with God, it was none other than the Angel of the LORD (the pre-incarnate Christ) who appeared as a Man (even though not explicitly called the Angel of the LORD), and even gave Jacob a little leeway by wrestling with him all night. But then He proved that He is God by simply touching Jacob's thigh and putting it out of joint. Then Jacob recognized that he had met God.

GENESIS 32: JACOB WRESTLED WITH CHRIST ALL NIGHT
24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a Man with him until the breaking of the day.
25 And when He [Christ] saw that He prevailed not against him [Jacob], He touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with Him.
26 And He said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he [Jacob] said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.
27 And He said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob.
28 And He said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
29 And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And He said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And He blessed him [Jacob] there.
30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
31 And as he passed over Penuel the sun rose upon him, and he halted upon his thigh.
32 Therefore the children of Israel eat not of the sinew which shrank, which is upon the hollow of the thigh, unto this day: because He touched the hollow of Jacob's thigh in the sinew that shrank.

Jacob received a blessing as well as a physical disability when he met God face to face. And since no man has seen God (the Father) this was God (the Son). God could have easily laid Jacob flat on the ground right at the start, but that was not the point. Now if even after this there are any naysayers, then they wish to be wilfully blind, and there is no remedy for that.

 

[bluto]

where does the OT say the phrase "an angel of the LORD" ?

and where does an angel accept worship, not rebuking the person for worshiping a mere servant instead of God?

To be fair please look at Exodus 23:20. "Behold, I am going to send "an" angel before you to guard you along the way, and to bring you into the place which I have prepared." Now, even though the word "an" is used it is still referring to "The" angel of the Lord and this is determined by the context.

Vs21, "Be on your guard before him and obey his voice; do not be rebellious toward him, for he will not pardon your transgressions, since My name is in him." My name is in him means My nature is in him. Just like Jesus said at John 14:11, "Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me."

Another thing of note is from Acts 7:30 where Stephen is speaking and he says, "And after forty years had passed, An angel appeared to him in the wilderness on Mount Sinai, in the flame of a burning thorn bush." Stephen is referencing Exodus 3:1-6 where the angel of the Lord is identified as God. Even though the word "an" is the context determines who this angel is.

Now here's a verse that really says alot. Judges 2:1, "Now the angel of the Lord came up from Gilgal to Bochim. And he said, I brought you up out of Egypt and led you into the land which I HAVE SWORE TO YOUR FATHERS, and I said, I will never break My covenant with you." Who swore the oath at Genesis 22?

IN THE ANGEL OF THE LORD,
bluto

 

[bluto]

Because some have made angels into anything other than one sent with a message from the lord there is much confusion.

The Son of man, Jesus a prophet and High apostle who spoke the words of the father that dwelt in his earthen body of death .The word angel is messenger with no other meaning added. How beautiful are the feet. .

We are warned that when fellowshipping with believer that are unknown to us .We should be careful they are sent of God. They could have something we need or us something they need.

Spiritual gifts not seen are always "two fold" 9 (not self edifying pride ) .They affect the one who speaks as well as the ones given ears to hear what the Spirit is saying

Hebrews 13:2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels.

Can't entertain the things not seen other than one imagination.

Which other messenger other Christ did he call Son?

Who is like God seeing he is not a man? The word Michael meaning "who is like God"? Begs a answer? Satan said he would ascend to the clouds to represent our unseen God . . . like God.

Jude 1:9King James Version Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

A couple of good examples of the father not seen working in the Son of man seen "the messenger" receiving words from the father. Showing the Lord rebuked Satan then he left the demonstration.

Jesus did not say thou shall not temp me. He would never stand in the holy unseen place of the unseen father and destroy the law of faith..

Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. Mathew 4:7

Or in chapter 16 .

The lord gave his prophet Jesus words to rebuke the devil protecting the faith of His Son that he had in his earthen body of death .

No power is attributed to the corrupted flesh of Christ .Which he says profits for zero

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.













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There is not one shred of evidence that Michael the arc angel is Jesus Christ. The Jw's teach this nonsense and they base their uninformed opinion on "assumption." They try to associate Michael's name to Jesus, "Who is like God." What's the name of Jesus Christ? Matthew 1:23, "Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and shall bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel, which is translated means, "GOD WITH US."

IN THE ANGEL OF THE LORD,
bluto

 

[garee]

Exactly. Now in the incident of Jacob wrestling with God, it was none other than the Angel of the LORD (the pre-incarnate Christ) who appeared as a Man (even though not explicitly called the Angel of the LORD), and even gave Jacob a little leeway by wrestling with him all night. But then He proved that He is God by simply touching Jacob's thigh and putting it out of joint. Then Jacob recognized that he had met God.

GENESIS 32: JACOB WRESTLED WITH CHRIST ALL NIGHT
24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a Man with him until the breaking of the day.
25 And when He [Christ] saw that He prevailed not against him [Jacob], He touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with Him.
26 And He said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he [Jacob] said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.
27 And He said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob.
28 And He said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
29 And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And He said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And He blessed him [Jacob] there.
30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
31 And as he passed over Penuel the sun rose upon him, and he halted upon his thigh.
32 Therefore the children of Israel eat not of the sinew which shrank, which is upon the hollow of the thigh, unto this day: because He touched the hollow of Jacob's thigh in the sinew that shrank.

Jacob received a blessing as well as a physical disability when he met God face to face. And since no man has seen God (the Father) this was God (the Son). God could have easily laid Jacob flat on the ground right at the start, but that was not the point. Now if even after this there are any naysayers, then they wish to be wilfully blind, and there is no remedy for that.

He did not wrestle with literal flesh and blood mankind it was a vision a parable revealing the power of the gospel as it works in men with men to both will and perform His good pleasure.

A picture of conversion "born again" . Having the treasure of His power in us working with us wrestling again flesh and blood. ( imaginations of deceitful (Jacob hearts ) not of us, that has no power. Dead in trespasses and sin

When he revealed the mystery at Pentecost that he has always been the God of all nations .Satan In Revelation 20 fell. Never to deceive all the nations in that way (walking by sight)

God who is not a man does not have a literal face . Face to face is the same as faith, the unseen to the same, faith .
Knowledge of God compared to the same. God is not a man .

After Pentecost he again did a name change .A more befitting glorious name . Previously He named His Bride Israel . In the book of Acts he called her Christian.

A word with no other meaning added means; "Residents of the city of Christ" The city prepared as His bride, named after her husband as the founder Christ.

I would think defining Christian as followers of Christ would be secondary. Its what we do not who the bride is.

The wedding name, a more befitting word "Christian" It seems to have lost meaning somewhat like other words . Makes me wonder when he comes will he find faith? or a private interpretation of men ?

Revelation 21 King James Version (KJV) And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.