Can you Spot the Trinity?
- Thread starter Dave-L
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I disagree that they were baptizing in Jesus name only for the first four centuries after Jesus. We are talking about up until about 430 ad?
For example, the didache is usually dated to about 50 to 120 ad. It uses the trinitarian formula.
http://earlychristianwritings.com/text/didache-roberts.html
I think it's very important! Jesus' final Ascent after the 40 days would have taken place from somewhere.
If it was Galilee, then Luke is incorrect.
If it was Bethany, then the discourse in Matthew 28 is not just before his ascent.
(The part in Mark 16 where Jesus ascends is not in the Greek text we agreed to use.)
No, the main body of the text ends with "age".
καὶ ἰδοὺ ἐγὼ μεθ’ ὑμῶν εἰμι πάσας τὰς ἡμέρας ἕως τῆς συντελείας τοῦ αἰῶνος.
In the previous post I copied the part from the footnote so you could see why they decided on what they did.
I think the Didache is a fake.
It claims it's from the Apostles, teaches fasting (we never see the Disciples/Apostles ever fast).
And it teach running water or sprinkle water for baptizing and we clearly see the apostles dunking full immersed.
It's clearly a Catholic literature trying to be passed off as the Apostles.
And the dating of 50-120 AD is verbal, but according to the actual papyrus: Late 4th Century:
Didache 6-16 - University of Pennsylvania
ccat.sas.upenn.edu/rs/rak/publics/didache/didache.htm
(2) POxy is the Greek Oxyrhynchus Papyrus 1782, dating from the late fourth century, which consists of two fragments of a codex, and preserves Didache 1.3b-4a and 2.7b--3.2a in a slightly variant form (with some significant expansion) from H.
19 The Lord, indeed, then, after speaking with them, was taken up into heaven and is seated at the right hand of God."
Ὁ μὲν οὖν κύριος Ἰησοῦς μετὰ τὸ λαλῆσαι αὐτοῖς ἀνελήμφθη εἰς τὸν οὐρανὸν καὶ ἐκάθισεν ἐκ δεξιῶν τοῦ θεοῦ.
However, it is in the Ancient Greek.
I don't know, Brother, using a version that removes Scripture when the ancient texts have that Scripture is interesting.
Why would that text be in the ancient version but modern day scholars claim it was an add on.
What's in Mark 16 that disproves their stance they desperately want it removed?
The gospels of Mathew and Luke are based on Mark. Mark was written about 60AD. Mathew used Mark, along with another source (called Q), and composed his gospel sometime after 70AD. Luke wrote his gospel also by using Mark and a sayings source (Q). As a consequence, much of the material is identical, or mostly the same.
What do you mean by modern version? Do you mean the SBLGNT? It's basically a tool, a time-saver. It's easier than traveling to specialized libraries or museums and asking to see the ancient texts they have there.
Some texts like the codex vaticanus are available on the internet, but I find them very hard to read!
You are simply REGURGITATING the false ideas of the Form Critics who are theological liberals to the core. Why don't you give us a Scripture verse which says that Mathew and Luke plagiarized Mark, or borrowed heavily from Mark? In fact I could prove your FALLACY by lining up the three Gospels and showing that each one was independently inspired.
I only used that reference as a reference for what I have figured out myself. Between Matthew, Mark, and Luke, they are close enough that had you not known these people from the Bible itself, you could conclude one person wrote all three of them.
Of course we can disagree about the dating of the Didache.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Didache
The Wikipedia article gives several references that date it much earlier.
The longer ending of Mark is in some Greek texts, but not in others.
This is why I recommended we agree on a particular Greek text.
If you don't wish to use the SBLGNT, we can use something else.
I'm not sure if I'm following what you're saying here.
Are you saying that the longer ending of Mark must have been part of the original book because Matthew copies from it?
Yes, a lot of the material and Matthew is based on Mark.
A lot of it is not found in mark, however.
For example, Matthew opens with a lengthy genealogy that is not found in mark.
I have never found the shorter version of Mark in older and ancient materials. So it makes wonder.
It's possible!
It's also possible that Mark was written first, Matthew and Luke use a lot of material from Mark and also add a lot of other material, either from a saying source or from their own experience or research.
Like most issues of textual criticism, it looks fairly complicated to me!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_16
"The earliest extant complete manuscripts of Mark, Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus, two 4th-century manuscripts, do not contain the last twelve verses, 16:9–20, nor the unversed shorter ending."