Not By Works

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Micaiah-imla said:
People can claim to know Jesus. This means nothing. It does not mean Jesus knows you (in the sense of a believer).

He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him (1 John 2:4).

So a person can claim to be saved. But if that same person fails to keep his commandments, he is in a delusional state; thinking Christ knows him.
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Romans 10:9-10
 
Micaiah-imla said:
People can claim to know Jesus. This means nothing. It does not mean Jesus knows you (in the sense of a believer).

He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him (1 John 2:4).

So a person can claim to be saved. But if that same person fails to keep his commandments, he is in a delusional state; thinking Christ knows him.
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1 John 2:3 - by this we know that we have come to know Him, (demonstrative evidence) if we “keep” (Greek word “tereo” - guard, observe, watch over) His commandments.

4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not “keep” (guard, observe, watch over) His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Do you believe that “keep his commandments“ means sinless, perfect obedience to His commandments 100% of the time and if so, do you believe that you live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived?)
 
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BillG said:
I am sure who ever you are talking to will enjoy it because they earned it, or at least it's what they think.
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I am sure the pharisees enjoyed it when they saw Jesus hanging on the cross also. I bet they think God was going to be so proud of them they where going to get extra rewards.

Woe is them on judgment day.
 
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Lightskin said:
Liberalism, to which humanistic secularism falls within its umbrella.
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Of course. But some believe that belief in itself is a work. So those who call for belief is labeled a liberalist. Kinda extreme.

Discernment is always key to rather something should be hashed out.

But hey the church is great at division and probably shouldn't expect that to change. We are still flesh and will fight over almost anything. I suppose God will sort out the theological differences later.
 
mailmandan said:
Do you believe that “keep his commandments“ means sinless, perfect obedience to His commandments 100% of the time
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Love fulfills the whole law (Romans 13:8-10).

Do you believe this?

mailmandan said:
and if so, do you believe that you live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived?)
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Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do (John 14:12).

Now:

Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto you (John 5:14).

Do you believe these things?
 
Roughsoul1991 said:
It is never fruitful for either side in these threads. In my opinion Christianity's biggest threat is humanistic secularism. I would much prefer someone to convert to a Calvinist mentality than a complete anti God mentality.
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The biggest threat to Christianity is false doctrine.
 
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Micaiah-imla said:
Love fulfills the whole law (Romans 13:8-10).

Do you believe this?
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do (John 14:12).

Now:

Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto you (John 5:14).

Do you believe these things?
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I believe those scriptures, but I don’t believe they support sinless perfection in contradiction to 1 John 1:8-10. So is that a YES or NO answer to my questions?
 
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mailmandan said:
So do you believe you live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time exactly as Jesus lived? No more fudging. YES or NO?
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The fact that you feel the need to ask this questions show you don't believe what the scriptures plainly state.

If you don't believe the scriptures, how will believe one who follows the scriptures?

Remove the leaven out of your scripture understanding and you'll find the answer my friend.

I have posted over 500 posts. Seek and ye shall find.
 
EleventhHour said:
The biggest threat to Christianity is false doctrine.
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True but vague. Secularist converts usually dont care about any of the doctrines related to Christianity.

It is more of doctrines from the anti God philosophers, scientists, or simply rebellion as self becomes more important. This is what is converting our children. The indoctrination within our public education.
 
Micaiah-imla said:
The fact that you feel the need to ask this questions show you don't believe what the scriptures plainly state.

If you don't believe the scriptures, how will believe one who follows the scriptures?

Remove the leaven out of your scripture understanding and you'll find the answer my friend.

I have posted over 500 posts. Seek and ye shall find.
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What a cop out. If you truly believed that those scriptures support sinless perfection, then why would you have trouble answering YES to my questions? For some reason, you continue to fudge and back off instead of answering my simple questions. So what’s the problem? :unsure:
 
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VCO said:
Just so you know, I only believe in 3 points of the 5 points of Calvinism.

So Calvinists will not consider me part of them, and neither do Armenians accept me.

So what do you Call me ? ? ? How about a normal Born Again Christian?

I hate those Calvinists and Armenians TITLES, because they just cause bitter arguments, and that cannot be of GOD.

As far as I am concerned, we EVANGELICALS, buried that Argument back in the early 80's, so stop digging up that old ARGUMENT.
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I believe in all the points of Calvinism that are stated in Scripture.
 
mailmandan said:
f you truly believed that those scriptures support sinless perfection, then why would you have trouble answering YES to my questions?
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No.

If you were sincere in asking the question I would have no trouble at all in answering this easy question.

But I perceive that you cannot handle the truth.

I posted a link to my answer, by the way.
 
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