The Reason You are Told that God No Longer Speaks.

[KelbyofGod]

Gotta say I LOVE that GiF as a reply to Rondonmon's post. Thanks for doing that.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[KelbyofGod]

My understanding is limited on this topic from a scriptural point of view ... but I do know that God speaks "spirit to spirit" and often without even using a word.

I think you said that well. He can drop the meaning of something directly into our heart but it can prove difficult (or seemingly impossible) to put into words if we try to tell someone else what it is.

Thanks for sharing.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[KelbyofGod]

I already acknowledged that the promise of the Holy Spirit was to all flesh. The prophecy and dreams was specific to Israel.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I see where the assumption could be made that the prophecy and dreams were only to the Jews by the way Acts 2:17 and Joel 2:28. But that assumption can be challenged. It appears that Prophecy as well as the Holy Ghost (and therefore dreams and the rest of that promise) have been made available to all flesh (NOT just the Jews) if we are to believe the evidence given in the following account:

Acts 19:1-6
1. And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, ...
6. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

These were Ephesians, not Jews.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[Blain]

Gotta say I LOVE that GiF as a reply to Rondonmon's post. Thanks for doing that.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

Yeah it is my favorite one to use luckily the gify icon makes it easier to find it but you still have to go through a few pages. you type in applause and go through the pages till you see it

 

[Blain]

Yep. Me too. If that is the measurement for being psycho then I want to be more psycho than ye all...

You know, most of the greatest poets in history were considered to be crazy so maybe being psycho is God's way of showing the world up. After all... I'm a poet and I know it, that's right I went there. where is my worst joke of the year award?

 

[Runningman]

You know, most of the greatest poets in history were considered to be crazy so maybe being psycho is God's way of showing the world up. After all... I'm a poet and I know it, that's right I went there. where is my worst joke of the year award?

Yeah. 1 Corinthians 1:26-31

 

[KelbyofGod]

The danger in your view is that scripture says scripture thoroughly furnishes us. It says tongues and prophecy only provided partial knowledge. Peter says, even though they heard God speak audibly, they now have a more sure word of prophecy in the scriptures because they are not of anyone's private interpretation. Adding to God's word got Nadab and Abihu when they offered "strange fire" God did not authorize. And claiming extra-canonical revelation is exactly that.

It does NOT say "we now have a more sure word of prophecy in the scripture"
It says "we now have a more sure word of prophecy" (because we "now" have prophecy functioning in the church).

"We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:" 2 Peter 1:19​

​

Will you go so far as to say that they didn't have prophecy FUNCTIONING at the time Peter said that?

That would be hard for you seeing as how you've more or less said that "scripture is prophecy" and "Prophesying= creating scripture" and what Peter was speaking is now scripture. So, by extension, Peter was prophesying (creating scripture) as he wrote this.

BTW, I do not subscribe to your definition of prophecy. But that's not to say I dislike you.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[notuptome]

I see where the assumption could be made that the prophecy and dreams were only to the Jews by the way Acts 2:17 and Joel 2:28. But that assumption can be challenged. It appears that Prophecy as well as the Holy Ghost (and therefore dreams and the rest of that promise) have been made available to all flesh (NOT just the Jews) if we are to believe the evidence given in the following account:

Acts 19:1-6
1. And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, ...
6. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

These were Ephesians, not Jews.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

Again you mix two different passages and create confusion. Tongues were a gift to establish the authority of the Holy Spirit until the revelation of the word of God was complete. The matter of dreams and visions were an evidence to Israel. Since the Ephesians are described as disciples they may have been and were likely Jewish.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[KelbyofGod]

Again you mix two different passages and create confusion. Tongues were a gift to establish the authority of the Holy Spirit until the revelation of the word of God was complete. The matter of dreams and visions were an evidence to Israel. Since the Ephesians are described as disciples they may have been and were likely Jewish.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

If you think it confusing that tongues is in the verse, please look past the tongues for a moment.

I was challenging your statement that "PROPHECY and dreams" were specific to Isreal. "Post #123)

Both prophecy and dreams are in the second part of the Joel 2:28 promise...the part you suggested is made only to Israel.

Yet in Acts 19:6 non-Israelites are receiving that portion of the promise(the gift of prophecy) as well as the first part of the promise (the Holy Ghost).

You were able to see and acknowledge that the promise of the Holy Ghost is available to all. Can you see and acknowledge that perhaps the whole promise is made to all?

Love in Jesus

 

[Dave-L]

It does NOT say "we now have a more sure word of prophecy in the scripture"
It says "we now have a more sure word of prophecy" (because we "now" have prophecy functioning in the church).

"We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:" 2 Peter 1:19​

​

Will you go so far as to say that they didn't have prophecy FUNCTIONING at the time Peter said that?

That would be hard for you seeing as how you've more or less said that "scripture is prophecy" and "Prophesying= creating scripture" and what Peter was speaking is now scripture. So, by extension, Peter was prophesying (creating scripture) as he wrote this.

BTW, I do not subscribe to your definition of prophecy. But that's not to say I dislike you.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

All the gifts went even before the Apostles died. Paul no longer healed his friends in the Epistles. He put Timothy on medicine. Which gifts do you think you have?

 

[Dave-L]

1 Corinthians 14:39
So, my dear brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and don’t forbid speaking in tongues.
And if you recal my earlier posting Acts 2:17
And it will be in the last days, God says, I will pour out of My Spirit upon all flesh, and your sons and your daughters will prophesy, and your young men will see visions, and your elders will dream dreams.
Make note how he says he will pour out his spirit upon all flesh, this is the anointing of the holy spirit the power is not based on laying of hands or an anointing of Pentecost because it is ours now the second we are baptized in fire by the holy spirit when we receive him

You are misusing the scriptures saying the gifts that ended are still happening. You can prove you are right if you make headlines healing the COVID19 victims.

 

[KelbyofGod]

All the gifts went even before the Apostles died. Paul no longer healed his friends in the Epistles. He put Timothy on medicine. Which gifts do you think you have?

Romans 12:6-7 KJV

"Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith; [7] Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching;"​

It lists ministry and teachings among the gifts right along with prophecy. Your claim that "ALL the gifts went even before the Apostles died" would mean that ALL the gifts would have been forced to cease. Therefore your claim is false if there are still God-ordained ministers or teachers.

You have been TAUGHT that these things have ceased, and you are doing your teachers proud by defending what they told you. But you CAN (if you want to) start to see discrepancies between what they taught you and what is manifest in the word.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[Dave-L]

Romans 12:6-7 KJV

"Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith; [7] Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching;"​

It lists ministry and teachings among the gifts right along with prophecy. Your claim that "ALL the gifts went even before the Apostles died" would mean that ALL the gifts would have been forced to cease. Therefore your claim is false if there are still God-ordained ministers or teachers.

You have been TAUGHT that these things have ceased, and you are doing your teachers proud by defending what they told you. But you CAN (if you want to) start to see discrepancies between what they taught you and what is manifest in the word.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

The gifts ended when scripture took their place. Go heal some COVID19 victims. Prove you are right.

 

[Dino246]

Adding to God's word got Nadab and Abihu when they offered "strange fire" God did not authorize. And claiming extra-canonical revelation is exactly that.

Nadab and Abihu didn't add anything to God's word, nor did the claim to do so. They just assumed that it was okay to do whatever they thought appropriate instead of doing what God had already told them to do. It has nothing to do with, as you call it, "extra-canonical revelation".

In contrast, the Israelites did not inquire of God with regard to the Gibeonites, and got themselves into trouble. God can and does respond to His people when they seek Him.

 

[Dino246]

This happened and ended when scripture was completed. Daniel says Jesus would cause the prophecy and vision to cease. Dan. 9:24

However, Scripture was not complete when Jesus died, so your concept of "cause the prophecy and vision to cease" cannot mean that God was no longer speaking. It must mean something else.

 

[Blain]

You are misusing the scriptures saying the gifts that ended are still happening. You can prove you are right if you make headlines healing the COVID19 victims.

You should know by now how I fell about misusing the scriptures I often say how sacred it is and is not a toy you wanted evidence I continue to give it yet you give no evidence at all for your stance except to continue to say how it has ended.
It's as I said even if I gave you evidence of it you would not listen and then I do as you ask and you accuse me of misusing scripture not even in saying how I represent it but the fact I am saying the gifts have not ended. I have done all you asked and yet you still have not done what I asked, can you disprove the gifts are not gone using the scriptures you claim furnish us?
Where in the bible does it say that the gifts ended with the apostles?

 

[notuptome]

If you think it confusing that tongues is in the verse, please look past the tongues for a moment.

I was challenging your statement that "PROPHECY and dreams" were specific to Isreal. "Post #123)

Both prophecy and dreams are in the second part of the Joel 2:28 promise...the part you suggested is made only to Israel.

Yet in Acts 19:6 non-Israelites are receiving that portion of the promise(the gift of prophecy) as well as the first part of the promise (the Holy Ghost).

You were able to see and acknowledge that the promise of the Holy Ghost is available to all. Can you see and acknowledge that perhaps the whole promise is made to all?

Love in Jesus

You may wish it were so but it isn't. Tongues were very temporary and prophecy in the context of the act of speaking as a prophet ended and were for the establishment of the apostolic church.

Since the Holy Spirit is integral to salvation it is not possible to say the Holy Spirit is not given to all who believe Jew or Gentile.

The word of God is given in great precision and if God intended for all to prophecy or dream dreams scripture would say just that.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Blain]

You may wish it were so but it isn't. Tongues were very temporary and prophecy in the context of the act of speaking as a prophet ended and were for the establishment of the apostolic church.

Since the Holy Spirit is integral to salvation it is not possible to say the Holy Spirit is not given to all who believe Jew or Gentile.

The word of God is given in great precision and if God intended for all to prophecy or dream dreams scripture would say just that.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

But the scriptures say that tongues will end however it doesn't say when does it?And I don't know where you stand on the whole dreams and prophecy thing as I was in a debate with dave but as for your saying that scripture would just say that I think it wouldn't. A lot of times scripture is not blunt about things it often times requires understanding and insight from the holy spirit

 

[KelbyofGod]

You may wish it were so but it isn't. Tongues were very temporary and prophecy in the context of the act of speaking as a prophet ended and were for the establishment of the apostolic church.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

You seem to have forgotten that we were disputing was whether or not the second part of the promise (which was prophecy, dreams, etc) was only for the Jews. You said it was only for the Jews. I showed you an example in the bible that proves it was given to gentiles, which is a proof that prophecy STARTED in non-Jews, by God.

Before we move on, you should probably acknowledge that the (Joel 2:28 and Acts 2:17) promise made prophecy (the ability to prophesy) available to the Ephesians in Acts 19:1-6 right along with the Holy Ghost. (because that's kind of undeniable.) THEN we can move on to discussing when or if that ability was taken away.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[Grandpa]

You know, most of the greatest poets in history were considered to be crazy so maybe being psycho is God's way of showing the world up. After all... I'm a poet and I know it, that's right I went there. where is my worst joke of the year award?

I think the whole world is crazy.

I may be the only sane one left.

And I hear voices, see visions and dream dreams...