Will the mark alone send a person to eternal damnation?

[KJV1611]

The last days refers to a time right before the return of Christ.

Heb_1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

You ignore all the verses that give timing of events.

 

[azamzimtoti]

Nope, the gathering of the Church is the great harvest. The fields were ripe, but the Jews rejected the Lord, so Paul was used to take the gospel to the Gentiles. When the fullness of the Gentiles is come in, the Lord will gather together all things in Christ.

No, the harvest was already ripe for harvest when Jesus was preaching:

(John 4:35 Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest)

 

[John146]

Right, but your are positing it as yet to happen - when the bible indicates it would be in the generation that heard Jesus speak.

Verses please? Are you referring to Matthew 24? That generation has not occurred yet.

 

[John146]

Heb_1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

You ignore all the verses that give timing of events.

Hebrews is doctrine for the Hebrews in the last days. Paul’s epistles ended the doctrine for the body of Christ.

 

[azamzimtoti]

Verses please? Are you referring to Matthew 24? That generation has not occurred yet.

(Mat 11:16 But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows)

(Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.)

 

[azamzimtoti]

Hebrews is doctrine for the Hebrews in the last days. Paul’s epistles ended the doctrine for the body of Christ.

So Paul wrote a letter to a generation not to be born for thousands of years? That makes no sense.

 

[John146]

No, the harvest was already ripe for harvest when Jesus was preaching:

(John 4:35 Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest)

Ripe, yes, gathered, no. The Church was not even in place yet, not until after the resurrection.

 

[azamzimtoti]

Heb_1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

You ignore all the verses that give timing of events.

I'll take that and up the stake.

(1 Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come)

 

[John146]

(Mat 11:16 But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows)

(Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.)

Matthew 24 is the generation Jesus is prophesying about. It could have been the current generation of His day if the Jews would have received Him. They did not. This generation is yet future.

 

[KJV1611]

Hebrews is doctrine for the Hebrews in the last days. Paul’s epistles ended the doctrine for the body of Christ.

Whew, this is pointless.

 

[John146]

So Paul wrote a letter to a generation not to be born for thousands of years? That makes no sense.

Did Paul write Romans? That’s doctrine still for the body of Christ 2,000 years later.

Don’t you think the Lord would give direction for His people Israel for the time of Jacob’s trouble? See Hebrews and James especially. Can we glean some truth from these books? Absolutely, but there are things written therein that are clearly not doctrine for the body of Christ.

 

[oldethennew]

All we have to do is believe what is written exactly as it is written... that's the only way to truth.

===================================================
Good point...
but
first of all, one has to be 'filled with The Holy Spirit', because as the Scripture says,
'The things of God are foolish to the carnal mind'...
and also,
one has to be quite learned in both the Hebrew and the Greek in order to have a complete and accurate' understanding
of what is written in the scriptures...
we are both working on it still, and know that we still have a long way to go to be where our Lord Jesus
is calling us to be=step-by-step-up-His-Holy-Ladder...
as it is written:
'Be you perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect'...
even if one has 'perfect knowledge', they have to be very careful,
for it is written;
'Knowledge puffs us up'...

 

[John146]

Whew, this is pointless.

Then you either believe that salvation can be lost, or you do the dance around clear Scripture passages in Hebrews like chapter 6...

 

[KJV1611]

===================================================
Good point...
but
first of all, one has to be 'filled with The Holy Spirit', because as the Scripture says,
'The things of God are foolish to the carnal mind'...
and also,
one has to be quite learned in both the Hebrew and the Greek in order to have a complete and accurate' understanding
of what is written in the scriptures...
we are both working on it still, and know that we still have a long way to go to be where our Lord Jesus
is calling us to be=step-by-step-up-His-Holy-Ladder...
as it is written:
'Be you perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect'...
even if one has 'perfect knowledge', they have to be very careful,
for it is written;
'Knowledge puffs us up'...

I dumped Hebrew and Greek a long time ago when I realized that God translated his word into all languages.

 

[oldethennew]

11TIM. 3:16.
Hear ye, Hear ye -
'All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17.
That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

 

[azamzimtoti]

Ripe, yes, gathered, no. The Church was not even in place yet, not until after the resurrection.

So they went to seed and fell to the ground - this makes no sense. The harvest was related to the 1st century in particular the Israelite kingdom/Jewish nation.

(Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity)

The kingdom of Israel is the context of the harvest and the above.

(Mat 13:24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field)

(Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.)

The kingdom/vineyard only applies to the Jewish/Israelite nation of the 1st century:

(Mat 21:33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country)

(Mat 21:37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.)

(Mat 21:39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.)

(Mat 21:40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?)

(Mat 21:41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.)

The church is the "other husbandmen".

 

[oldethennew]

as of Today, after many decades of Study, neither one of us know of ANY-PERFECT translation...
but,
if some have never studied multiple translations, then of course the KJV would be their only source -
and that's fine...
we both prefer the KJV but, The Holy Spirit has led us to see that the 'many' translators were NOT PERFECT...
of course, 'every Word of God is Perfect, but the multiple, flawed hands that have taken it upon
themselves to 'translate' will and do come-up with errors...

 

[John146]

So they went to seed and fell to the ground - this makes no sense. The harvest was related to the 1st century in particular the Israelite kingdom/Jewish nation.

(Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity)

The kingdom of Israel is the context of the harvest and the above.

(Mat 13:24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field)

(Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.)

The kingdom/vineyard only applies to the Jewish/Israelite nation of the 1st century:

(Mat 21:33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country)

(Mat 21:37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.)

(Mat 21:39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.)

(Mat 21:40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?)

(Mat 21:41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.)

The church is the "other husbandmen".

The context is the kingdom of heaven, the literal, physical kingdom promised to Israel when the Lord returns as king of Kings.

 

[KJV1611]

Then you either believe that salvation can be lost, or you do the dance around clear Scripture passages in Hebrews like chapter 6...

Heb 6:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

I guess you assume that "whose end is to be burned" means they are going to hell?

 

[KJV1611]

as of Today, after many decades of Study, neither one of us know of ANY-PERFECT translation...
but,
if some have never studied multiple translations, then of course the KJV would be their only source -
and that's fine...
we both prefer the KJV but, The Holy Spirit has led us to see that the 'many' translators were NOT PERFECT...
of course, 'every Word of God is Perfect, but the multiple, flawed hands that have taken it upon
themselves to 'translate' will and do come-up with errors...

Some people believe that, I don't... I used to but now I don't.