CESSATIONISM AND HEALING
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If Persecution for an Christian promised for an Follower of Christ, rather than a healthy/ wealthy life here on earth, why do you pray for healing?
You should rather not seek healing and sell your home & possessions & give the money to the poor as these God has not promised these to you.
Don't pretend like a hypocrite.
You should rather not seek healing and sell your home & possessions & give the money to the poor as these God has not promised these to you.
Don't pretend like a hypocrite.
Because I see the reality. I see sick followers of Christ which are not going healed. And you folks says it is because of lack faith in Christ.
Thats a lie, and thats why I against it.
I work in hospital and see that people mostly die because of any desease ore sickness. There is no different between Christian and non Christian. According your claim all Christians must die in very old age. And even then they will die, because the body can not work longer.
Thats a lie, and thats why I against it.
I work in hospital and see that people mostly die because of any desease ore sickness. There is no different between Christian and non Christian. According your claim all Christians must die in very old age. And even then they will die, because the body can not work longer.
So what do you do with this verse which follows 2 verses on justification by faith?
"Not only this, but we also rejoice in sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, 4 and endurance, character, and character, hope. 5 And hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us." Romans 5:3-5
God gave me this life verse at a point in my life when I was ready to quit life! He renewed and restored my heart and soul.
One thing I will agree with you is that Isa 53 is definitely a prophecy about the Messiah. In fact, only Isa 54:4d talks about healing. That is 1/4 of a verse, in a book with 66 chapters. You can't make a doctrine out of 1/4 of a verse! God doesn't want us to make doctrine out of one part of one verse. Take your example of the cross. Is it repeated frequently in the Bible? It certainly is! So, one can safely make doctrine on the efficacy of the cross, the necessity of the cross, and so on.
And the saddest part, it is only the late Masoretic Hebrew texts from the 8-10th centuries AD that has that verse. The Greek Septuagint from 300 BC is a much more accurate translations, and it outright says, "sin sickness." The cross saves us from our sin sickness. This is much better, because the book of Isaiah is totally about sin, starting in the first chapter of the book!
"Wash! Cleanse yourselves!
Remove your sinful deeds
from my sight.
Stop sinning.
17 Learn to do what is right.
Promote justice.
Give the oppressed reason to celebrate.
Take up the cause of the orphan.
Defend the rights of the widow.
18 Come, let’s consider your options,” says the Lord.
“Though your sins have stained you like the color red,
you can become white like snow;
though they are as easy to see as the color scarlet,
you can become white like wool.
19 If you have a willing attitude and obey,
then you will again eat the good crops of the land." Isaiah 1:16-19
So, when the whole book is about our sins, and the Messiah who would come to heal us of our sin sickness, which is the point of the whole Bible, then let's use the version that says that, instead of same late Hebrew translation, which talks about physical healing.
100% the cross is necessary to heal us of our sins! That is eternal life. Healing the body - as a demonstration of Jesus' power and fulfillment is one thing, but to extend to every person getting healed every time they pray your own. so-called "magic way."
You blaspheme God with your lies about perfect and total healing every time. God never said that, you pluck verses out of context, and make up a false doctrine. God heals when it is sovereign will, not yours, or mine, or anyone else's will. I would suggest you do some studying on the sovereignty of God, and humble your arrogant ways before God.
There is nothing more damaging to a sick person than being scorned because God did not heal them. Esp. When they thought they had the doctrine right. I had 2 close friends who went Word Faith just as I got severe Rheumatoid Arthritis. They both prayed, and when I was not healed they were cruel about my lack of healing, just as you are cruel saying this to many who are sick or injured. There is no magic wand of right thinking we can do to be healed, it is up to God. The two people who were Word Faith got sick a few years later. I was on good meds by then, they phoned to get me to pray for them. The woman had breast cancer. She refused treatment and died a year later when the cancer metastasized to her brain. The man got an enlarged prostrate, and a non charismatic friend dropped by his house and rushed him to the hospital when she found him on the floor. They operated immediately, and he is doing well at almost 90 years old. He now says, "God have us doctors, too!" Truer words!
I turned away from God for 2 years, but God called me back. He made me pick up my Bible and read 5 Psalms a day. I did that for 2 solid years. God showed me his people. He showed me their sufferings and trials, and their joy in him. He showed me REAL people, who struggled, stumbled, were wicked, but God still called them back to worship Him.
There were no perfect people, just real human beings. You take the gift of God, our humanity, and you twist it, and demand perfection. Perfect healing for everyone, and the Bible never says that. Just your twisted, heretical mind.
I wonder what God will say to you when you meet him face to face? Will he say you loved the brethren, and people in the world. Or will you say you used the Bible to hit people over the head with wrong and heretical doctrine! Think carefully. I know I am not only safe in Jesus arms, but is is God's will for me to suffer. God was able to transform me into a different person in a few short years, than the 19 years when I was healthy. I can use my illness to help other people and lead them to Christ. I run 2 groups on FB for people who have illnesses, with over 1000 people and I am able to testify God met me where I was at, and he took away my fears, my anxieties and depression, because he is a loving God!
1 John 4:8, 16 " God is love!"
You have lost your first love! You have made this made, heretical doctrine more important that loving people. You have judged and condemned so many people in this forum you don't know. And never did I ever see you post more than 1 verse, just these out of context verses. I pray you will find your way back to God, and you will realize that loving God and your neighbour as yourself, is a far more important doctrine than this jumbled Word Faith heresy, that does not even work.
"Not only this, but we also rejoice in sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, 4 and endurance, character, and character, hope. 5 And hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us." Romans 5:3-5
God gave me this life verse at a point in my life when I was ready to quit life! He renewed and restored my heart and soul.
One thing I will agree with you is that Isa 53 is definitely a prophecy about the Messiah. In fact, only Isa 54:4d talks about healing. That is 1/4 of a verse, in a book with 66 chapters. You can't make a doctrine out of 1/4 of a verse! God doesn't want us to make doctrine out of one part of one verse. Take your example of the cross. Is it repeated frequently in the Bible? It certainly is! So, one can safely make doctrine on the efficacy of the cross, the necessity of the cross, and so on.
And the saddest part, it is only the late Masoretic Hebrew texts from the 8-10th centuries AD that has that verse. The Greek Septuagint from 300 BC is a much more accurate translations, and it outright says, "sin sickness." The cross saves us from our sin sickness. This is much better, because the book of Isaiah is totally about sin, starting in the first chapter of the book!
"Wash! Cleanse yourselves!
Remove your sinful deeds
from my sight.
Stop sinning.
17 Learn to do what is right.
Promote justice.
Give the oppressed reason to celebrate.
Take up the cause of the orphan.
Defend the rights of the widow.
18 Come, let’s consider your options,” says the Lord.
“Though your sins have stained you like the color red,
you can become white like snow;
though they are as easy to see as the color scarlet,
you can become white like wool.
19 If you have a willing attitude and obey,
then you will again eat the good crops of the land." Isaiah 1:16-19
So, when the whole book is about our sins, and the Messiah who would come to heal us of our sin sickness, which is the point of the whole Bible, then let's use the version that says that, instead of same late Hebrew translation, which talks about physical healing.
100% the cross is necessary to heal us of our sins! That is eternal life. Healing the body - as a demonstration of Jesus' power and fulfillment is one thing, but to extend to every person getting healed every time they pray your own. so-called "magic way."
You blaspheme God with your lies about perfect and total healing every time. God never said that, you pluck verses out of context, and make up a false doctrine. God heals when it is sovereign will, not yours, or mine, or anyone else's will. I would suggest you do some studying on the sovereignty of God, and humble your arrogant ways before God.
There is nothing more damaging to a sick person than being scorned because God did not heal them. Esp. When they thought they had the doctrine right. I had 2 close friends who went Word Faith just as I got severe Rheumatoid Arthritis. They both prayed, and when I was not healed they were cruel about my lack of healing, just as you are cruel saying this to many who are sick or injured. There is no magic wand of right thinking we can do to be healed, it is up to God. The two people who were Word Faith got sick a few years later. I was on good meds by then, they phoned to get me to pray for them. The woman had breast cancer. She refused treatment and died a year later when the cancer metastasized to her brain. The man got an enlarged prostrate, and a non charismatic friend dropped by his house and rushed him to the hospital when she found him on the floor. They operated immediately, and he is doing well at almost 90 years old. He now says, "God have us doctors, too!" Truer words!
I turned away from God for 2 years, but God called me back. He made me pick up my Bible and read 5 Psalms a day. I did that for 2 solid years. God showed me his people. He showed me their sufferings and trials, and their joy in him. He showed me REAL people, who struggled, stumbled, were wicked, but God still called them back to worship Him.
There were no perfect people, just real human beings. You take the gift of God, our humanity, and you twist it, and demand perfection. Perfect healing for everyone, and the Bible never says that. Just your twisted, heretical mind.
I wonder what God will say to you when you meet him face to face? Will he say you loved the brethren, and people in the world. Or will you say you used the Bible to hit people over the head with wrong and heretical doctrine! Think carefully. I know I am not only safe in Jesus arms, but is is God's will for me to suffer. God was able to transform me into a different person in a few short years, than the 19 years when I was healthy. I can use my illness to help other people and lead them to Christ. I run 2 groups on FB for people who have illnesses, with over 1000 people and I am able to testify God met me where I was at, and he took away my fears, my anxieties and depression, because he is a loving God!
1 John 4:8, 16 " God is love!"
You have lost your first love! You have made this made, heretical doctrine more important that loving people. You have judged and condemned so many people in this forum you don't know. And never did I ever see you post more than 1 verse, just these out of context verses. I pray you will find your way back to God, and you will realize that loving God and your neighbour as yourself, is a far more important doctrine than this jumbled Word Faith heresy, that does not even work.
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Y (You): Not only this, but we also rejoice in sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, 4 and endurance, character, and character, hope. Romans 5:3-5.
M: Amid sufferings, God says only believe rather than quit hope of healing. The purpose of sufferings is not demean faith in Mark 9:23. Don't be confused thinking test of faith is denial of healing.
Y: You can't make a doctrine out of 1/4 of a verse! God doesn't want us to make doctrine out of one part of one verse
M: Jesus repeats about the efficacy of faith for healing several times. Don't try to demean faith, try to prove God is unfaithful to His word and displease because without faith it's impossible to please God!
Y: The cross saves us from our sin sickness. This is much better, because the book of Isaiah is totally about sin, starting in the first chapter of the book!
M: Your problem is, regarding healing, you want to deny faith in Christ's atonement & want to seek medical doctor / local church elders etc as your mediator to receive healing from God. That is plain apostasy! Repent.
Y: 19 If you have a willing attitude and obey, then you will again eat the good crops of the land." Isaiah 1:16-19
M: Even if you give your life for your brethren, your life is never going to save others or you. So trust in Christ's atonement alone!
Y: You blaspheme God with your lies about perfect and total healing every time
M: You blaspheme God by making Jesus' words in Mark9:23 a lie. Recent.
Y: would suggest you do some studying on the sovereignty of God, and humble your arrogant ways before God.
M: God's sovereignty works through faith in Christ's atonement. Denying Christ's atonement for healing and talking about sovereignty is absolute rubbish!
Y: There is nothing more damaging to a sick person than being scorned because God did not heal them
M: Rubbish. Don't justify little faith or unbelief. Grow in faith according to 2 Thessalonians 1:3!
Y: but God still called them back to worship Him.
M: Regardless of how much you worship, without faith it is imposible to please God! Period!!
Y: There were no perfect people, just real human beings. You take the gift of God, our humanity, and you twist it, and demand perfection.
M: Read Mark 9:23. Everything is possible by Jesus. Don't limit Jesus and blaspheme Him.
Y: but is is God's will for me to suffer. God was able to transform me into a different person in a few short years, than the 19 years when I was healthy. I can use my illness to help other people and lead them to Christ
M: Your suffering and ministry doesn't please God if you deny faith in Christ's atonement for healing! Faith pleases God.
Y: I can use my illness to help other people and lead them to Christ.
M: Nonsense. It's faith in God's election & atonement which leads people to Christ. Illness doesn't.
Y: jumbled Word Faith heresy, that does not even work.
M: Again you are confused between sign gifts and faith which please God. Even the unsaved love others more than you. Don't boast about your works and instead boast about the works of Christ on the cross.
M: Amid sufferings, God says only believe rather than quit hope of healing. The purpose of sufferings is not demean faith in Mark 9:23. Don't be confused thinking test of faith is denial of healing.
Y: You can't make a doctrine out of 1/4 of a verse! God doesn't want us to make doctrine out of one part of one verse
M: Jesus repeats about the efficacy of faith for healing several times. Don't try to demean faith, try to prove God is unfaithful to His word and displease because without faith it's impossible to please God!
Y: The cross saves us from our sin sickness. This is much better, because the book of Isaiah is totally about sin, starting in the first chapter of the book!
M: Your problem is, regarding healing, you want to deny faith in Christ's atonement & want to seek medical doctor / local church elders etc as your mediator to receive healing from God. That is plain apostasy! Repent.
Y: 19 If you have a willing attitude and obey, then you will again eat the good crops of the land." Isaiah 1:16-19
M: Even if you give your life for your brethren, your life is never going to save others or you. So trust in Christ's atonement alone!
Y: You blaspheme God with your lies about perfect and total healing every time
M: You blaspheme God by making Jesus' words in Mark9:23 a lie. Recent.
Y: would suggest you do some studying on the sovereignty of God, and humble your arrogant ways before God.
M: God's sovereignty works through faith in Christ's atonement. Denying Christ's atonement for healing and talking about sovereignty is absolute rubbish!
Y: There is nothing more damaging to a sick person than being scorned because God did not heal them
M: Rubbish. Don't justify little faith or unbelief. Grow in faith according to 2 Thessalonians 1:3!
Y: but God still called them back to worship Him.
M: Regardless of how much you worship, without faith it is imposible to please God! Period!!
Y: There were no perfect people, just real human beings. You take the gift of God, our humanity, and you twist it, and demand perfection.
M: Read Mark 9:23. Everything is possible by Jesus. Don't limit Jesus and blaspheme Him.
Y: but is is God's will for me to suffer. God was able to transform me into a different person in a few short years, than the 19 years when I was healthy. I can use my illness to help other people and lead them to Christ
M: Your suffering and ministry doesn't please God if you deny faith in Christ's atonement for healing! Faith pleases God.
Y: I can use my illness to help other people and lead them to Christ.
M: Nonsense. It's faith in God's election & atonement which leads people to Christ. Illness doesn't.
Y: jumbled Word Faith heresy, that does not even work.
M: Again you are confused between sign gifts and faith which please God. Even the unsaved love others more than you. Don't boast about your works and instead boast about the works of Christ on the cross.
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I actually thought you said it because that is how the post came through...I had so much trouble with a number of posts in this thread where the quote was tied to the wrong person and I simply gave up...
I certainly do NOT support anyone telling another to do something that is not good...
And why then would you come back and entertain this instead of just letting your yes be yes and your no be no..
Instead you point to Peter walking on the water, as if this comment was ok.
It isn´t and we are NOT to tempt GOD at all and were told as much in Matthew 4
I certainly do NOT support anyone telling another to do something that is not good...
And why then would you come back and entertain this instead of just letting your yes be yes and your no be no..
Instead you point to Peter walking on the water, as if this comment was ok.
It isn´t and we are NOT to tempt GOD at all and were told as much in Matthew 4
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I do not believe that, sir...I believe we ALL know that GOD can heal...however, we are reminded to pray and then wash our face and get up...
HE knows already what is in our hearts and prayers sir...HE doesn´t need many words...the man whose child is sick will cry out to him, but then, by faith, he gets up and trusts that GOD will bring to pass what HE will bring to pass.
HE knows already what is in our hearts and prayers sir...HE doesn´t need many words...the man whose child is sick will cry out to him, but then, by faith, he gets up and trusts that GOD will bring to pass what HE will bring to pass.
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Are you in agreement then with Wolfwint´s first comment sir? Because, there are many ignorant listening in who might think that it is okay to take chances in things that they SHOULD NEVER take chances in.
When wolfwint suggested something to you, you sounded offended, yet you counter by pointing to Mark 9:23 and Peter walking on water?
So what is your stance now sir.
I thought you understood that we DO NOT TEMPT GOD.
Yet, now, with your pointing to Mark 9:23 and Peter walking on water, I am not so sure.
Please be clear in your response.
Please let your yes be yes and your no be no.
When wolfwint suggested something to you, you sounded offended, yet you counter by pointing to Mark 9:23 and Peter walking on water?
So what is your stance now sir.
I thought you understood that we DO NOT TEMPT GOD.
Yet, now, with your pointing to Mark 9:23 and Peter walking on water, I am not so sure.
Please be clear in your response.
Please let your yes be yes and your no be no.