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Jul 23, 2018
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The majority of people on Earth are SINNERS. This Tribulation is their heyday. This is Satan and his kingdom's heyday. This has nothing to do with God.
That's like saying God did not use other nations to persecute/judge/chastise the Jews.

God is 100% connected to the gt.
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
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The rapture deniers have no verses...NONE

They shift the debate to dead men.
Relying on statements from men Above Gods word.

They litterally show themselves to be in error
Just wondering, Do you think people who see the resurrection (rapture) as a post-trib event are rapture deniers?
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Why would I be full of spite and hate for seeing what Paul claims, some of us will be alive until the LAST TRUMP, and he is talking about Believers, because the BEHEADED are DEAD already?
The last trump is blown every year at the feast of trumpets.

Seventh trump and last trump are not necessarily the same thing.

In fact when Jesus spoke to john, it was as a trumpet.

Trump
Trumpet
Seventh trump
Darby
Lahaye
McDonald
Scofield
"New doctrine"
Church fathers
Escape
"False pretrib rapture"
"Decieved by satan"
"Originated in hell"

Total it,and ...pooof!!... out pops the postrib rapture.

No bible needed!!!!!!
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Just wondering, Do you think people who see the resurrection (rapture) as a post-trib event are rapture deniers?
I see error.
There is no resurrection postrib.

Why?

Because the living do not precede the dead.
Rev 14 has a group (millions/billions?) Gathered during the trib.
That means a postrib resurrection is impossible.
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
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I see error.
There is no resurrection postrib.

Why?

Because the living do not precede the dead.
Rev 14 has a group (millions/billions?) Gathered during the trib.
That means a postrib resurrection is impossible.

That doesn't really answer my question.
Do you call someone who sees the resurrection as a post trib happening a "rapture denier"?
 
Nov 23, 2013
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I would offer. No division between the corrupted flesh a Jew or a gentile.(mankind) God purifies the hearts of all nations by a work of his faithfulness. Both (all) bodies of death return to the same corrupted field of clay.

In one way mankind, and not just the Jew where or are the cause for the sufferings unto death . But it was the labor of the father and Son love working as one God that performed the work. The father pouring out the wrath of mankind being revealed from heaven from the garden or fall. Strengthening, sending the Son with words of life, spiritual words the breath of life .

Jesus said his corrupted flesh profits for zero. We walk by faith

A promised demonstration of the work of the father in heaven pouring out the wrath of mankind .I don't think it is attributed to human hands, "a demon inspired Mob". I don't think God would share that eternal glory with the corruptible. That could become a place that robs the glory of God He is not a man . At that time period Satan fell and could no longer deceive all the nations of the world God was a Jewish man, and their must follow the the law of men .Called the "law of the fathers"... .oral tradition of corrupted mankind after the philosophies of man . And not the Perfect law of God.(sola scriptura)
Act 5:30 (KJV) The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.

According to that verse who slew and hanged Jesus on a tree?
 
Apr 5, 2020
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" but pray that you will be counted Worthy (as in the 5 wise virgins) to escape the things about to come upon the world and stand before the son of God."

"Because you have kept the word of my testimony,I will keep you from the trial that is about to come upon the earth. "

Lot escaped "pretrib"
Noah was delivered into the ark "pretrib"
The baby Jesus ESCAPED to safety.

Maybe noah should have swam
Lot should have gotten some burns
And Jesus felt some cuts from Herod.
The nerve of God....saving his own before disaster.


Lot only escaped because Abraham sought his safety from God.
The flood was to wipe out the Nephilim remnant so Noah had to be saved to repopulate the Earth.
Jesus only escaped because His purpose was to die another way AFTER introducing us to the Gospel and fulfilling the LAW!
 
Apr 5, 2020
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The last trump is blown every year at the feast of trumpets.

Seventh trump and last trump are not necessarily the same thing.

In fact when Jesus spoke to john, it was as a trumpet.

Trump
Trumpet
Seventh trump
Darby
Lahaye
McDonald
Scofield
"New doctrine"
Church fathers
Escape
"False pretrib rapture"
"Decieved by satan"
"Originated in hell"

Total it,and ...pooof!!... out pops the postrib rapture.

No bible needed!!!!!!


Nice Try, but hopefully you are smarter than this and know what Paul is claiming here!
But then again, after reading your responses to mine, maybe not!
 
Jul 23, 2018
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That doesn't really answer my question.
Do you call someone who sees the resurrection as a post trib happening a "rapture denier"?
Rapture denier would mean they believe in no rapture.
I think postrib rapture adherents are rapture adherents.
Maybe I should say pretrib rapture deniers?
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
9,388
5,729
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Rapture denier would mean they believe in no rapture.
I think postrib rapture adherents are rapture adherents.
Maybe I should say pretrib rapture deniers?
Yes please, that would be better. :)

I believe the "rapture" is simply the resurrection for believers who are still living at the time.
I believe in it. I don't deny it. I just don't agree that it comes prior to persecution by the beast/antichrist system.

There may be those who deny it altogether. I can't speak for everyone.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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" but pray that you will be counted Worthy (as in the 5 wise virgins) to escape the things about to come upon the world and stand before the son of God."

"Because you have kept the word of my testimony,I will keep you from the trial that is about to come upon the earth. "

Lot escaped "pretrib"
Noah was delivered into the ark "pretrib"
The baby Jesus ESCAPED to safety.

Maybe noah should have swam
Lot should have gotten some burns
And Jesus felt some cuts from Herod.
The nerve of God....saving his own before disaster.
The disaster typified by Noah ark signified in that a parable the end of the world, the last day. The finished work displayed the prophecy that moved Noah to both will ado do the good pleasure of God. The work did not signal another beginning. But again the last day. last day used six time in the book of John .The day of the lord .The end of corrupted mankind under the Sun .

God is not a man.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Nice Try, but hopefully you are smarter than this and know what Paul is claiming here!
But then again, after reading your responses to mine, maybe not!
You dont investigate the verses we bring.

I can make as good or better postrib argument than postribs.
But the difference comes because :
1) I do not jettison/ignore/reframe the pretrib verses.
2)once both dynamics are paired alongside, postrib uses extra biblical material to form their doctrine.
3) once a doctrine is shown to be impossible ,wisdom leaves those theories behind.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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The disaster typified by Noah ark signified in that a parable the end of the world, the last day. The finished work displayed the prophecy that moved Noah to both will ado do the good pleasure of God. The work did not signal another beginning. But again the last day. last day used six time in the book of John .The day of the lord .The end of corrupted mankind under the Sun .

God is not a man.
Jesus used the noah dynamic in framing his coming.
Specifically BEFORE THE FLOOD.

PRETRIB COMING FOR HIS FAMILY IS A TRIAL FOR THE WORLD.
NO BRAINER
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Act 5:30 (KJV) The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.

According to that verse who slew and hanged Jesus on a tree?
Hi thanks,

I would think The wrath of God. The letter of the law (death) stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted hung Jesus .

During that one time demonstration (cross) he used the hands of men to show the opposing will of mankind under the god of this world . But the work of sufferings and crying out for mercy will not be shared with corrupted flesh. The father and Son as one glorious work .The Just and justifier. together satisfied the just demand's of the law. The peace of God.

That seems to represent demonstration in the garden of Gethsemane. A portion of the three day work of the father revealing the victory of him and the son. When the mutual work was being developed . The father put the disciples asleep (ZZZZZZ) so that they could not patriciate in the work or labor of prayer. Crying out for strength . After the third time Jesus by himself crying out by reason of suffering unto death and strengthened. that remand of the demonstration And the disciples were awoken to continue the demonstration.

The cross demonstration another kind would seem to give the illusion of the work of salvation as to the sufferings was product of the flesh. God simply will not share his glory with the corrupted things seen. We walk by faith.

The flesh I would think is shown of having no power no power in the Bible.

Note. . . black no power .

Note. . . Green with power

Note. . . Red source of (POWER)

Then cometh Jesus with them unto a place called Gethsemane, and saith unto the disciples, Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder.And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be sorrowful and very heavy. Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt. And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour? Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak. He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done. And he came and found them asleep again: for their eyes were heavy. And he left them, and went away again, and prayed the third time, saying the same words. Then cometh he to his disciples, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: behold, the hour is at hand, and the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners. Rise, let us be going: behold, he is at hand that doth betray me.36-46
 
Apr 5, 2020
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Hi thanks,

I would think The wrath of God. The letter of the law (death) stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted hung Jesus .

During that one time demonstration (cross) he used the hands of men to show the opposing will of mankind under the god of this world . But the work of sufferings and crying out for mercy will not be shared with corrupted flesh. The father and Son as one glorious work .The Just and justifier. together satisfied the just demand's of the law. The peace of God.

That seems to represent demonstration in the garden of Gethsemane. A portion of the three day work of the father revealing the victory of him and the son. When the mutual work was being developed . The father put the disciples asleep (ZZZZZZ) so that they could not patriciate in the work or labor of prayer. Crying out for strength . After the third time Jesus by himself crying out by reason of suffering unto death and strengthened. that remand of the demonstration And the disciples were awoken to continue the demonstration.

The cross demonstration another kind would seem to give the illusion of the work of salvation as to the sufferings was product of the flesh. God simply will not share his glory with the corrupted things seen. We walk by faith.

The flesh I would think is shown of having no power no power in the Bible.

Note. . . black no power .

Note. . . Green with power

Note. . . Red source of (POWER)

Then cometh Jesus with them unto a place called Gethsemane, and saith unto the disciples, Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder.And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be sorrowful and very heavy. Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt. And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour? Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak. He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done. And he came and found them asleep again: for their eyes were heavy. And he left them, and went away again, and prayed the third time, saying the same words. Then cometh he to his disciples, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: behold, the hour is at hand, and the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners. Rise, let us be going: behold, he is at hand that doth betray me.36-46

All of that ^ for this:
Act 5:30 (KJV) The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.

According to that verse who slew and hanged Jesus on a tree?




(n)
 
Apr 5, 2020
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garee,
Are you JW, Mormon, Nazarene, Essenes?
I don't care one way or another, but only a select few beliefs don't recognize Yeshua's Deity.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Just wondering, Do you think people who see the resurrection (rapture) as a post-trib event are rapture deniers?

Not exactly, but their refusal to believe in PRE-TRIB could cost them by NOT being Part of the WEDDING OF THE LAMB. If they DO NOT KEEP READY FOR THE BRIDEGROOM when HE COMES. If they BELIEVE ONLY in Post-Trib, where is the MOTIVATION to KEEP READY FOR THE BRIDEGROOM when HE COMES. If they Think Post-TRIB or just about, is IT; they do not have to get ready until after the MID-TRIB Event happens. Antichrist WILL take over the TEMPLE, or Tabernacle, and saying "NOW YOU WILL WORSHIP ME! "; WILL CERTAINLY MAKE INTERNATIONAL NEWS! THAT IS WHEN THE ANTICHRIST WILL SET HIS throne IN THE HOLY OF HOLIES, SHOWING he is now God. THUS they could be "LEFT BEHIND" if it is PRE-TRIB. That is EXACTLY WHAT Mat 25:1-13 is all about.

We however, BELIEVE WE MUST KEEP READY FOR OUR BRIDEGROOM AT ALL TIMES. Therefore WE WILL BE READY at PRE-TRIB, and if not then, WE WILL READY at MID-TRIB, and if not then, WE WILL BE READY AT OR NEAR POST-TRIB. I WAS EXPECTING My Bridgroom in the 1980's, and NOW I AM FILLED WITH THE EXPECTATION NOW, and WILL BE EXPECTING HIM UNTIL IT ACTUALLY HAPPENS. IT IS PART OF MY LOVE FOR HIM.


Matthew 25:1-13 (NCV)
1 “At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten bridesmaids who took their lamps and went to wait for the bridegroom.
2 Five of them were foolish and five were wise.
3 The five foolish bridesmaids took their lamps, but they did not take more oil for the lamps to burn.
4 The wise bridesmaids took their lamps and more oil in jars.
5 Because the bridegroom was late, they became sleepy and went to sleep.
6 “At midnight someone cried out,
’The bridegroom is coming! Come and meet him!’
7 Then all the bridesmaids woke up and got their lamps ready.
8 But the foolish ones said to the wise, ’Give us some of your oil, because our lamps are going out.’
9 The wise bridesmaids answered, ’No, the oil we have might not be enough for all of us. Go to the people who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.’
10 “So while the five foolish bridesmaids went to buy oil, the bridegroom came. The bridesmaids who were ready went in with the bridegroom to the wedding feast. Then the door was closed and locked.
11 “Later the others came back and said, ’Sir, sir, open the door to let us in.’
12 But the bridegroom answered,
’I tell you the truth, I don’t want to know you.’
{That inner, personal, relationship of loving HIM that comes with being Born Again.}
13 So always be ready, because you don’t know the day or the hour the Son of Man will come.


2 Thessalonians 2:3-5 (HCSB)
3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way. For ⌊that day⌋ will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction.
4 He opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits in God’s sanctuary, publicizing that he himself is God.
5 Don’t you remember that when I was still with you I told you about this?



HOW MUCH DO I BELIEVE THIS that I was talking about. 100%! To give you an idea how much! I was in my Mail Truck in 1996, heading west about 3 blocks from the COAST on 7th Street, Crescent City, California. That is when I saw this open up in the clouds in about 1 second flat. I was so convinced that it COULD BE THE RAPTURE, so much so that I immediately PARKED my Mail Truck, and took my afternoon BREAK, and waited for what would happen NEXT, till break was over.

1589148021516.png
What a WONDERFUL FEELING that the LORD WAS COMING, to CALL HIS BRIDE OUT OF THIS EARTH.
This Picture was in the Paper the next day. That is the Crescent City Light House, and I used to live about 5 blocks from that Light House.