CESSATIONISM AND HEALING
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What is the difference between knowledge of CHRIST and faith in CHRIST?
The woman had knowledge of CHRIST and believed by faith that what she had heard was true...which is WHY she went to HIM...
And if it is YOU who are confused, you could always refer to John 4 and what happened after the woman at the well, received knowledge of HIM, believed and went to share that knowledge with the townspeople...
The only difference that should be noted between knowledge of CHRIST and faith in CHRIST, is if one just amasses to themselves knowledge, treating Jesus as no different than any other wisdom teacher, but has no relationship with HIM whatsoever..and that one, would, therefore NOT have (nor would they exercise) faith in HIM...
But the one with knowledge of HIM and who has faith in him...will ever and always continue coming to HIM...
So, no I am NOT confused at all with the difference between knowledge of CHRIST and FAITH IN CHRIST, sir....
The woman had knowledge of CHRIST and believed by faith that what she had heard was true...which is WHY she went to HIM...
And if it is YOU who are confused, you could always refer to John 4 and what happened after the woman at the well, received knowledge of HIM, believed and went to share that knowledge with the townspeople...
The only difference that should be noted between knowledge of CHRIST and faith in CHRIST, is if one just amasses to themselves knowledge, treating Jesus as no different than any other wisdom teacher, but has no relationship with HIM whatsoever..and that one, would, therefore NOT have (nor would they exercise) faith in HIM...
But the one with knowledge of HIM and who has faith in him...will ever and always continue coming to HIM...
So, no I am NOT confused at all with the difference between knowledge of CHRIST and FAITH IN CHRIST, sir....
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Acts 8:1 Saul was consenting to his death. A great persecution arose against the assembly which was in Jerusalem in that day. They were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria, except for the apostles.
8:2 Devout men buried Stephen, and lamented greatly over him.
8:3 But Saul ravaged the assembly, entering into every house, and dragged both men and women off to prison.
8:4 Therefore those who were scattered abroad went around preaching the word.
God sends persecution. You may call it judgmental.
8:2 Devout men buried Stephen, and lamented greatly over him.
8:3 But Saul ravaged the assembly, entering into every house, and dragged both men and women off to prison.
8:4 Therefore those who were scattered abroad went around preaching the word.
God sends persecution. You may call it judgmental.
You (Y): those who claim Christians are entitled to physical healing in this lifetime are the deceivers.
Me (M): Those why deny healing in Christ's atonement according to Isaiah 53:4 & Mathew 8:17 are the deceivers. There is no healing required after bodily redemption.
Y: The logical conclusion of your teaching is that if someone has a debilitating issue such as cerebral palsy or paralysis, if they are never healed of it, it is because they lack faith.
M: Jesus cited instances to show that lacking faith or little faith have consequences. Jesus also stated everything is possible by faith. Teach faith rather than cite examples to disprove faith. Faith pleases God.
Y: you are setting Christians up for unmet expectations. When they are not healed of their conditions, they could be tempted to discard their faith.
M: The elect will never discard faith. Instead they will accept faith. So don't cite lame excuses.
Y: you are encouraging some individuals in the path of loving God for his gifts, rather than loving Him. This is what Satan claimed Job's motives were. And, to be honest, I think that's what the motive of many WoF, Health Wealth and Prosperity people is. They are looking to God only for his gifts, and not because they love Him and want his presence in their lives.
M: Nonsense. Hebrews 11:6: "Without faith it is impossible to be well pleasing to him, for he who comes to God must believe that he exists, and that he is a rewarder of those who seek him". Don't confuse between looking to God for gifts without faith and with faith. Don't pretend you are a homeless person begging for food and have only His presence. You can't love God without faith.
Y: I can see this sort of mentality for a baby Christian who is still sucking on the bottle and wearing diapers, but at some point, a believer should grow out of it and quit listening to ill-instructed, false WoF teachers.
M: One who denies healing in Christ's atonement is a baby Christian who is still sucking on the bottle and wearing diapers. Grow out of disbelief and quit listening to ill-instructed, false teachers who can't tell the difference between sign gifts and faith.
Y: the real believer has an eternal perspective. And WoF, Health/Wealth/Prosperity is not focused on this. They do not understand concepts like union with Christ, and how suffering creates Christ in the believer.
M: Nonsense. Luke 21: 36: "Therefore be watchful all the time, asking that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will happen". Jesus taught how to escape tribulations and persecutions. It is not suffering but faith which pleases God, which creates Christ in the believer.
Y: 2 Corinthians 4:7-18.....
M: This passage never denies healing in Christ's atonement. Don't waste your time trying to! Repent.
Me (M): Those why deny healing in Christ's atonement according to Isaiah 53:4 & Mathew 8:17 are the deceivers. There is no healing required after bodily redemption.
Y: The logical conclusion of your teaching is that if someone has a debilitating issue such as cerebral palsy or paralysis, if they are never healed of it, it is because they lack faith.
M: Jesus cited instances to show that lacking faith or little faith have consequences. Jesus also stated everything is possible by faith. Teach faith rather than cite examples to disprove faith. Faith pleases God.
Y: you are setting Christians up for unmet expectations. When they are not healed of their conditions, they could be tempted to discard their faith.
M: The elect will never discard faith. Instead they will accept faith. So don't cite lame excuses.
Y: you are encouraging some individuals in the path of loving God for his gifts, rather than loving Him. This is what Satan claimed Job's motives were. And, to be honest, I think that's what the motive of many WoF, Health Wealth and Prosperity people is. They are looking to God only for his gifts, and not because they love Him and want his presence in their lives.
M: Nonsense. Hebrews 11:6: "Without faith it is impossible to be well pleasing to him, for he who comes to God must believe that he exists, and that he is a rewarder of those who seek him". Don't confuse between looking to God for gifts without faith and with faith. Don't pretend you are a homeless person begging for food and have only His presence. You can't love God without faith.
Y: I can see this sort of mentality for a baby Christian who is still sucking on the bottle and wearing diapers, but at some point, a believer should grow out of it and quit listening to ill-instructed, false WoF teachers.
M: One who denies healing in Christ's atonement is a baby Christian who is still sucking on the bottle and wearing diapers. Grow out of disbelief and quit listening to ill-instructed, false teachers who can't tell the difference between sign gifts and faith.
Y: the real believer has an eternal perspective. And WoF, Health/Wealth/Prosperity is not focused on this. They do not understand concepts like union with Christ, and how suffering creates Christ in the believer.
M: Nonsense. Luke 21: 36: "Therefore be watchful all the time, asking that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will happen". Jesus taught how to escape tribulations and persecutions. It is not suffering but faith which pleases God, which creates Christ in the believer.
Y: 2 Corinthians 4:7-18.....
M: This passage never denies healing in Christ's atonement. Don't waste your time trying to! Repent.
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Most of these arguments aren't even worth discussing.
I will mention that Luke 21:36 is in the context of God's wrath and end time events, and not in the context of physical healing.
But, I don't suppose you are very interested in reading Scripture in context.
By the way, I used to follow Word of Faith teaching. It was repackaged by a cult leader named Herbert Armstrong, but in essence, he stole their false teachings.
I really don't even have to argue these points. There are tons of dead, bald, hearing-impaired WoFers wearing glasses and hearing aids. They have not evaded the physical consequences of the Curse throughout their lifetimes. They can claim it all they want.
The physical body of believers is decaying before their eyes.
2 Cor 4:7-18 clearly teaches that believers are not exempt from all kinds of afflictions and their outward bodies are fading away and growing weak. You provided no meaningful answer regarding the teaching of Scripture in this regard.
2 Corinthians 4:7-18 7 But we have this treasure in jars of clay, to show that the surpassing power belongs to God and not to us. 8 We are afflicted in every way, but not crushed; perplexed, but not driven to despair; 9 persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed; 10 always carrying in the body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be manifested in our bodies. 11 For we who live are always being given over to death for Jesus' sake, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh. 12 So death is at work in us, but life in you.
13 Since we have the same spirit of faith according to what has been written, “I believed, and so I spoke,” we also believe, and so we also speak, 14 knowing that he who raised the Lord Jesus will raise us also with Jesus and bring us with you into his presence. 15 For it is all for your sake, so that as grace extends to more and more people it may increase thanksgiving, to the glory of God.
16 So we do not lose heart. Though our outer self is wasting away, our inner self is being renewed day by day. 17 For this light momentary affliction is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison, 18 as we look not to the things that are seen but to the things that are unseen. For the things that are seen are transient, but the things that are unseen are eternal.
(ESV Strong's)
Clasp your hand and cover your eyes..continue to ignore the plain teaching of Scripture.
You know, a long time ago I gave up trying to convince someone who won't be convinced. I learned I cannot unbind folks from delusional teaching. Only God can do that.
I will mention that Luke 21:36 is in the context of God's wrath and end time events, and not in the context of physical healing.
But, I don't suppose you are very interested in reading Scripture in context.
By the way, I used to follow Word of Faith teaching. It was repackaged by a cult leader named Herbert Armstrong, but in essence, he stole their false teachings.
I really don't even have to argue these points. There are tons of dead, bald, hearing-impaired WoFers wearing glasses and hearing aids. They have not evaded the physical consequences of the Curse throughout their lifetimes. They can claim it all they want.
The physical body of believers is decaying before their eyes.
2 Cor 4:7-18 clearly teaches that believers are not exempt from all kinds of afflictions and their outward bodies are fading away and growing weak. You provided no meaningful answer regarding the teaching of Scripture in this regard.
2 Corinthians 4:7-18 7 But we have this treasure in jars of clay, to show that the surpassing power belongs to God and not to us. 8 We are afflicted in every way, but not crushed; perplexed, but not driven to despair; 9 persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed; 10 always carrying in the body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be manifested in our bodies. 11 For we who live are always being given over to death for Jesus' sake, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh. 12 So death is at work in us, but life in you.
13 Since we have the same spirit of faith according to what has been written, “I believed, and so I spoke,” we also believe, and so we also speak, 14 knowing that he who raised the Lord Jesus will raise us also with Jesus and bring us with you into his presence. 15 For it is all for your sake, so that as grace extends to more and more people it may increase thanksgiving, to the glory of God.
16 So we do not lose heart. Though our outer self is wasting away, our inner self is being renewed day by day. 17 For this light momentary affliction is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison, 18 as we look not to the things that are seen but to the things that are unseen. For the things that are seen are transient, but the things that are unseen are eternal.
(ESV Strong's)
Clasp your hand and cover your eyes..continue to ignore the plain teaching of Scripture.
You know, a long time ago I gave up trying to convince someone who won't be convinced. I learned I cannot unbind folks from delusional teaching. Only God can do that.
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Most of these arguments aren't even worth discussing.
I will mention that Luke 21:36 is in the context of God's wrath and end time events, and not in the context of physical healing.
But, I don't suppose you are very interested in reading Scripture in context.
By the way, I used to follow Word of Faith teaching. It was repackaged by a cult leader named Herbert Armstrong, but in essence, he stole their false teachings.
I really don't even have to argue these points. There are tons of dead, bald, hearing-impaired WoFers wearing glasses and hearing aids. They have not evaded the physical consequences of the Curse throughout their lifetimes. They can claim it all they want.
The physical body of believers is decaying before their eyes.
2 Cor 4:7-18 clearly teaches that believers are not exempt from all kinds of afflictions and their outward bodies are fading away and growing weak. You provided no meaningful answer regarding the teaching of Scripture in this regard.
2 Corinthians 4:7-18 7 But we have this treasure in jars of clay, to show that the surpassing power belongs to God and not to us. 8 We are afflicted in every way, but not crushed; perplexed, but not driven to despair; 9 persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed; 10 always carrying in the body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be manifested in our bodies. 11 For we who live are always being given over to death for Jesus' sake, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh. 12 So death is at work in us, but life in you.
13 Since we have the same spirit of faith according to what has been written, “I believed, and so I spoke,” we also believe, and so we also speak, 14 knowing that he who raised the Lord Jesus will raise us also with Jesus and bring us with you into his presence. 15 For it is all for your sake, so that as grace extends to more and more people it may increase thanksgiving, to the glory of God.
16 So we do not lose heart. Though our outer self is wasting away, our inner self is being renewed day by day. 17 For this light momentary affliction is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison, 18 as we look not to the things that are seen but to the things that are unseen. For the things that are seen are transient, but the things that are unseen are eternal.
(ESV Strong's)
Clasp your hand and cover your eyes..continue to ignore the plain teaching of Scripture.
You know, a long time ago I gave up trying to convince someone who won't be convinced. I learned I cannot unbind folks from delusional teaching. Only God can do that.
I will mention that Luke 21:36 is in the context of God's wrath and end time events, and not in the context of physical healing.
But, I don't suppose you are very interested in reading Scripture in context.
By the way, I used to follow Word of Faith teaching. It was repackaged by a cult leader named Herbert Armstrong, but in essence, he stole their false teachings.
I really don't even have to argue these points. There are tons of dead, bald, hearing-impaired WoFers wearing glasses and hearing aids. They have not evaded the physical consequences of the Curse throughout their lifetimes. They can claim it all they want.
The physical body of believers is decaying before their eyes.
2 Cor 4:7-18 clearly teaches that believers are not exempt from all kinds of afflictions and their outward bodies are fading away and growing weak. You provided no meaningful answer regarding the teaching of Scripture in this regard.
2 Corinthians 4:7-18 7 But we have this treasure in jars of clay, to show that the surpassing power belongs to God and not to us. 8 We are afflicted in every way, but not crushed; perplexed, but not driven to despair; 9 persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed; 10 always carrying in the body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be manifested in our bodies. 11 For we who live are always being given over to death for Jesus' sake, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh. 12 So death is at work in us, but life in you.
13 Since we have the same spirit of faith according to what has been written, “I believed, and so I spoke,” we also believe, and so we also speak, 14 knowing that he who raised the Lord Jesus will raise us also with Jesus and bring us with you into his presence. 15 For it is all for your sake, so that as grace extends to more and more people it may increase thanksgiving, to the glory of God.
16 So we do not lose heart. Though our outer self is wasting away, our inner self is being renewed day by day. 17 For this light momentary affliction is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison, 18 as we look not to the things that are seen but to the things that are unseen. For the things that are seen are transient, but the things that are unseen are eternal.
(ESV Strong's)
Clasp your hand and cover your eyes..continue to ignore the plain teaching of Scripture.
You know, a long time ago I gave up trying to convince someone who won't be convinced. I learned I cannot unbind folks from delusional teaching. Only God can do that.
M: Most of your arguments are unbiblical, flimsy and delusional.
Y: I will mention that Luke 21:36 is in the context of God's wrath and end time events, and not in the context of physical healing.
M: When the discussion was about physical healing, you ridiculously brought in tribulations. So I rebutted your unbiblical thinking with Luke 21:36.
Y: 2 Corinthians 4:7-18
M: You haven't proved this passage disproves healing through faith in Christ's atonement in Isaiah 53:4 & Mathew 8:17.
Y: By the way, I used to follow Word of Faith teaching.
M: You haven't clarified your unbiblical confusion between sign gifts and faith.
If you deny healing through faith in Christ's atonement, you are an apostate regarding healing seeking medical doctor as your Messiah.
I see your silence on my other points.
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You are unable to read Scripture without your Word of Faith filter.
Do you not know that Luke was a physician?
I don't claim that medical science is my Messiah, but I don't limit God to using men to accomplish his will. For instance, Cyrus the pagan ruler was used to restore Jerusalem.
Additionally, the atonement assures the restoration of all things, but not in this life. People of real faith await the full restoration. Read Hebrews 11.
Fake believers like many Word of Faith people have vain hope. They don't have an eternal perspective and look for restoration in this world. Their hope is here.
By the way, where are your Word of Faith healers in light of Covid 19? Why is Covid 19 still killing people, when Copeland declared it to be gone?
Did you know that Copeland declared it to be gone already? LOL
The foolishness of these people is astounding, yet guys like you continue to maintain your claims.
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John 16 is sufficient to all believers in CHRIST JESUS...
If you are sick, do not neglect doing what you are responsible to do...that is, go to the doctor...but while doing your part, the part you are responsible and capable of doing, (going to the doctor), do not ever neglect prayer to the ONE whom you have believed in...
Please refer to and remember John 16...CHRISTŚ INSTRUCTIONS to HIS BODY...
And ye now therefore have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no man taketh from you
23And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you. 24Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.
25These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father. 26At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you: 27For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God. 28I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
If you are sick, do not neglect doing what you are responsible to do...that is, go to the doctor...but while doing your part, the part you are responsible and capable of doing, (going to the doctor), do not ever neglect prayer to the ONE whom you have believed in...
Please refer to and remember John 16...CHRISTŚ INSTRUCTIONS to HIS BODY...
And ye now therefore have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no man taketh from you
23And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you. 24Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.
25These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father. 26At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you: 27For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God. 28I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.