Explain 2Thessalonians 2:6,7. (use the KJV).

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Ahwatukee

Ahwatukee

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#61
Mar 12, 2015
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#61
tantalon said:
No mention of the holy Spirit restraining, so do not include it.
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The abomination of desolation is not mentioned in Revelation, but the description of it is. Paul said to the Thessalonians "Don't you remember that I used to tell you these things when I was with you," which means that they knew who Paul was referring to when he said, "the One who is holding the man of lawlessness back will continue to do so until He is taken out of the way."

There are many things in the word of God that are revealed by the Spirit and the "one who now restrains" is one of them, the restrainer being the Holy Spirit. No one else but God could hold back the man of lawlessness.
 
T

tantalon

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Oct 11, 2019
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Ahwatukee, thank you for your comments. May I point to the wording of the text, which in verse 6 is relating to the word WHAT, and not WHO. The "what" wording is referring to the great falling away in verse three, that must come FIRST, and then after that, the antichrist is revealed. There is a sequence of events that take place in their order, the falling away or apostacy comes first, then the antichrist comes after. I am aware of what some commentaries teach, but only the word of God, righty divided, is true.
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

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#65
Nov 23, 2013
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#65
tantalon said:
No mention of the holy Spirit restraining, so do not include it.
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2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

The man of sin is our old man, the man that was crucified with Christ. That man is hidden from the non-believer, the non-believer has no idea that something exists in him that needs to be put to death. The existence of that man is hidden from them until the Father draws that person to Jesus.

The non-believer will continue to work iniquity until the old man is taken out of the way.
 
Absolutely

Absolutely

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#66
Jul 23, 2018
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dcontroversal said:
It does not jive at all especially in light of Revelation....all the souls saved during the tribulation...impossible if the SPIRIT IS TAKEN AWAY because the HOLY SPIRIT leads and guides into all truth and convinces the world of sin....plus....The imminent return is another farce that they try to fit within the current scope of this conversation.....does not jive either!
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It just says "taken out of the way".
Not totally abandoning the planet.
 
Absolutely

Absolutely

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#67
Jul 23, 2018
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#67
JamOn said:
The theory that the Holy Spirit is taken away is mystically thinking, the three work in harmony not against one another.
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Ps 91 is the protection of Gods family.
It has 2 conditions for that protection.

God removing his umbrella has nothing to do with unity or mysticism.
The 5 foolish virgins had a worthiness problem.
They were not worthy to be taken to heaven for the marriage.
The rapture is for worthy believers.
Roughly half the church stays for a meeting to be beheaded.
They are mentioned in rev 20
 
miknik5

miknik5

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#68
Jun 2, 2016
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#68
garee said:
Yes it is speaking of the last day the end of time. A reminder that it is not only the Holy Spirit who teaches us but also brings to our mind the things God has taught . Not to look to sign as wonderments rather than believing scripture .

The letter of the law would seem to be that which works iniquity. When Christ came as the Son of man part of the work of deceiving all the nations was revealed . Satan fell from the previous position of deceiving all the nations .The idea a person must be Jewish, as if God was a man was put to rest once and for all .

Without the letter of the law that which works iniquity. The devil has no power.
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I agree..for CHRIST said, the Law will not pass until all has been accomplished...and all that has to be accomplished is that the last numbers who belong to HIM be gathered in first...and then will HE put HIS enemies under HIM...

The law can not pass, because not all believe in CHRIST and therefore not all know how to handle the written law rightly...not understanding that the written law, if not combined with THE SPIRIT of THE LAW...is ineffectual, and void...

Which is why, there will be evil running rampant, and the love of many will grow cold...because they will fall away...

But this can not happen, until HE who holds all things back is taken out of the way...then will evil run rampant with no restraint
 
miknik5

miknik5

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Jun 2, 2016
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#69
Absolutely said:
Ps 91 is the protection of Gods family.
It has 2 conditions for that protection.

God removing his umbrella has nothing to do with unity or mysticism.
The 5 foolish virgins had a worthiness problem.
They were not worthy to be taken to heaven for the marriage.
The rapture is for worthy believers.
Roughly half the church stays for a meeting to be beheaded.
They are mentioned in rev 20
Click to expand...
And one of the very reasons why they will be martyred is because, while their unbelieving, older Jewish brothers begin to construct the temple, they will not be able to hold their tongue in telling them that this is wrong and evil to do....

For this testimony, they will be killed...and treated as troublers...
Satan knows they are right, but they will be killed and treated as blasphemers

And it is written....blessed are those who die in the LORD from now on...yes, for their ¨works¨ shall proceed them...

Their works....nothing that most consider work, no physical labor, but this....THE MOST IMPORTANT WORK: HOLDING TO THE TESTIMONY of JESUS...not loving their lives, even to the death
 
G

garee

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#70
Mar 28, 2016
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#70
miknik5 said:
I agree..for CHRIST said, the Law will not pass until all has been accomplished...and all that has to be accomplished is that the last numbers who belong to HIM be gathered in first...and then will HE put HIS enemies under HIM...

The law can not pass, because not all believe in CHRIST and therefore not all know how to handle the written law rightly...not understanding that the written law, if not combined with THE SPIRIT of THE LAW...is ineffectual, and void...

Which is why, there will be evil running rampant, and the love of many will grow cold...because they will fall away...

But this can not happen, until HE who holds all things back is taken out of the way...then will evil run rampant with no restraint
Click to expand...
Thanks

Makes me wonder when he comes on the last day this is when we receive our new bodies in the same day twinkling of the eye. . . The letter of the law Death is cast in the judgement of God never to rise again and condemn to death by corruption another entire creation.

If there was no restrainer (the book of the law death ) Mankind would break the record for fasted recorded extinction of a kind.

Luke 18:7-9 King James Version (KJV)And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them? I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth? And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
 
Ahwatukee

Ahwatukee

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Mar 12, 2015
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#71
tantalon said:
Ahwatukee, thank you for your comments. May I point to the wording of the text, which in verse 6 is relating to the word WHAT, and not WHO. The "what" wording is referring to the great falling away in verse three, that must come FIRST, and then after that, the antichrist is revealed. There is a sequence of events that take place in their order, the falling away or apostacy comes first, then the antichrist comes after. I am aware of what some commentaries teach, but only the word of God, righty divided, is true.
Click to expand...
That is correct. And the apostacy and the man of lawlessness are what identify "The Day of the Lord" and not "the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to Him." People read over this not recognizing the difference between these two.

The coming of our Lord and our being gathered to Him = The gathering of the church

The Day of the Lord aka that day = The time of God's wrath which follows our being gathered

The first one is a blessed event where the church is caught up and removed from the earth. Where the Day of the Lord is a time darkness, wrath and fierce anger. Consequently, believers are not appointed to suffer God's wrath because Jesus already suffered it on behalf of every believer, satisfying it completely.
 
Absolutely

Absolutely

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#72
Jul 23, 2018
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#72
miknik5 said:
And one of the very reasons why they will be martyred is because, while their unbelieving, older Jewish brothers begin to construct the temple, they will not be able to hold their tongue in telling them that this is wrong and evil to do....

For this testimony, they will be killed...and treated as troublers...
Satan knows they are right, but they will be killed and treated as blasphemers

And it is written....blessed are those who die in the LORD from now on...yes, for their ¨works¨ shall proceed them...

Their works....nothing that most consider work, no physical labor, but this....THE MOST IMPORTANT WORK: HOLDING TO THE TESTIMONY of JESUS...not loving their lives, even to the death
Click to expand...
Amen
We can be decieved...but Jesus never. He can not be decieved.
So my understanding is clinging to Jesus. Intimacy with him. Divorcing my emotions and impulses and laying my head on his breast to hear that beating heart.
That is my safety. Along with proven men of God. Seated with them.
The word "discenment" is pulled in bdf like a six gun.
Most dont even operate in it because it must be confirmed.

THAT IS THE KEY. DISCERNMENT CAN LEAD YOU MILES FROM TRUTH.
It is only when a "truth" or "word from heaven" is proven that it should be shared.
It could easily be birthed in the human mind.

The very best men of God understand that dynamic.
 
Absolutely

Absolutely

Banned
#73
Jul 23, 2018
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#73
Ahwatukee said:
That is correct. And the apostacy and the man of lawlessness are what identify "The Day of the Lord" and not "the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to Him." People read over this not recognizing the difference between these two.

The coming of our Lord and our being gathered to Him = The gathering of the church

The Day of the Lord aka that day = The time of God's wrath which follows our being gathered

The first one is a blessed event where the church is caught up and removed from the earth. Where the Day of the Lord is a time darkness, wrath and fierce anger. Consequently, believers are not appointed to suffer God's wrath because Jesus already suffered it on behalf of every believer, satisfying it completely.
Click to expand...
Bless you brother.
I always read your posts.
For the most part we do agree.
 
R

Rondonmon

Senior Member
#74
May 13, 2016
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#74
tantalon said:
No mention of the holy Spirit restraining, so do not include it.
Click to expand...
The Holy Spirit working through the Church HOLDS BACK the Beast from coming forth for nigh 2000 years until the Church is taken out and thus the Holy Spirit, working through the Church, no longer holds back the Beast Kingdoms.

This isn't that hard to understand really, The Beast Systems ruled from Babylon to Rome {even Egypt and Assyria before that} over the Mediterranean Sea Region. God sends Jesus for our sins, Jesus tells Peter the gates of hell will not prevail over the Church. God locks Apollyon, the Scarlet Colored Beast in the bottomless pit until the Church is Rapture to Heaven pre 0th week.

So, once the Church has DEPARTED {which is what FALLING AWAY means} the Hoy Spirit will STOP BLOCKING the last Beast from coming forth. We are the vehicle that blunts the Beast from coming forth.
 
cv5

cv5

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#75
Nov 20, 2018
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#75
tantalon said:
No mention of the holy Spirit restraining, so do not include it.
Click to expand...
Come on man. Virtually all of the commentators agree that the Holy Spirit is implied to be the restrainer.
 
miknik5

miknik5

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Jun 2, 2016
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#76
Absolutely said:
Amen
We can be decieved...but Jesus never. He can not be decieved.
So my understanding is clinging to Jesus. Intimacy with him. Divorcing my emotions and impulses and laying my head on his breast to hear that beating heart.
That is my safety. Along with proven men of God. Seated with them.
The word "discenment" is pulled in bdf like a six gun.
Most dont even operate in it because it must be confirmed.

THAT IS THE KEY. DISCERNMENT CAN LEAD YOU MILES FROM TRUTH.
It is only when a "truth" or "word from heaven" is proven that it should be shared.
It could easily be birthed in the human mind.

The very best men of God understand that dynamic.
Click to expand...
And it is when a ¨ẗruth¨ or ¨word from heaven¨ confirmed by THE HOLY SPIRIT, should not only be shared, but also NEVER replaced by the commentaries of men.
 
miknik5

miknik5

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Jun 2, 2016
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#77
In regards to post 58, the GOSPEL is preached during the tribulation...please refer to the TWO WITNESSES, (revelation 11) as well as finally, the angels(revelation 14)...

So, there WILL be those who will hear THE GOSPEL preached during that time...

Not to mention the 144,000 from the tribe of Israel...
 
T

tantalon

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#78
cv5 said:
Come on man. Virtually all of the commentators agree that the Holy Spirit is implied to be the restrainer.
Click to expand...
I never take most commentaries for truth. Why? Because their learning is mainly taken from man, or institutions of man, that have denominal bias. 2 Thess. 2 verses three and six are key to explaining the text. A CAREFUL reading of the Biblical text is what is required, not the commentaries of man.
 
cv5

cv5

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#79
tantalon said:
I never take most commentaries for truth. Why? Because their learning is mainly taken from man, or institutions of man, that have denominal bias. 2 Thess. 2 verses three and six are key to explaining the text. A CAREFUL reading of the Biblical text is what is required, not the commentaries of man.
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OK....so YOU tell us who it is genius.
 
cv5

cv5

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#80
Nehemiah6 said:
How can it be a fallacy when it is all clearly spelled out, not only in this epistle, but in other prophecies? And so is the imminent return of Christ for His saints. It will be unannounced and unexpected, since that is what Christ has said.
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The imminent return of our Lord Jesus is one of the most oft-repeated New Covenant doctrines in all of Scripture. And it is certainly one of the most if not the most urgent as well.
 
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